7 layers of heaven

[Fatihah]

As to scientific research, Fatitah, it means that you have thorough investigate a particular field.

• Did you find evidences?
• Did you test those findings (evidences, measurement) to either validate or not?
• Have you ever written scientific paper, such as thesis on scientific matter?

Are you scientist, Fatitah?

This should be a easy question for you to answer. Yes or no.

Please, don't answer "yes", if the only science you have done, is in high school. Because you can't be scientist.

Do you have a degree in science?

And if your answer is "yes" to the "scientist" question, then in what field in science?

Earth science? Astronomy? Astrophysics? Meteorology? Biology? Medicine?

If you are (a scientist), then you would not need a definition on "scientific research" from skydivephil. Skydivephil is not playing with words, Fatitah.

And because of all your posts in this thread alone, clearly you are not scientist. So how can you even claim that you have done scientific research, if you don't even know the meaning of scientific research?

One thing for sure, you don't know much about astronomy.

Response: I never claimed to be a scientist, thus your whole post is pointless.

 

[skydivephil]

Response: The answer is in the previous post. And perhaps you should provide as to what you mean by scientific research, so we can at least agree on what play of words you'll be using this time.

Im happy to go wth Gnostics definition. he seems very reasonable.
Im not playing with words, Im still waiting for your definition of an atmospheric layer, any time would be nice.
you say the lamps are the light from the stars. The problem is you said the seven heavens are
"troposphere, stratosphere, OZone layer, mesosphere, thermosphere, ionosphere, exosphere."
the qur'an says the lamps or star depending on you translation are in the lower heaven. But the light from stars is visible all the way through every layer of the atmosphere not just the troposphere. In fact they are more visible at higher altitiudes as atmospheric interfernce is less. perhaps you might answer this point as well as providing us with your definition?

 

[gnostic]

Response: I never claimed to be a scientist, thus your whole post is pointless.

No, it is not pointless.

skydivephil had ask you if you done scientific research before, back in post #211.

But they don't use dictionaries to determine scientific terminology. Have you every done any scientific research?

And you said "yes".

Response: Yes, I've done scientific research.

Because then in post #216, you ask skydivephil, to define "scientific research".

Response: The answer is in the previous post. And perhaps you should provide as to what you mean by scientific research, so we can at least agree on what play of words you'll be using this time.

Scientific research is scientific research. In research, you'd investigate, you'd test, you'd observe, and you'd write down the findings, and you'd present your results to key players who would be interest in your research. With science, often you would find that mathematics are required before, during and after the test. And you would have to account for errors; acceptable margin of errors need to be determine. Your findings/results would either validate a theory or a evidence or mathematical equation, or it would not.

Scientific research mean the same thing, no matter what field in science you are researching on. The fundamental principle of research are all the same, because you still need to investigate, test, find evidence and write report, but each field would have different methodology on going about doing the research.

For example, a pathologist/pharmaeologist investigating the viability of a vaccine, would use different methods of testing to an aeronautic engineer testing the aerodynamic of new model of a jet fighter. They both do test, but how they go about doing so are different.

I don't know if you have any scientific background, but if you did, and then you wouldn't need to even ask skydivephil for definition for scientific research.

High school reports for science subject don't really count as "scientific research". Looking up scientific terminology in science dictionary or handbook, also don't count as "doing scientific research", because anyone can look up a dictionary.

So I will repeat skydivephil's question to you.

Have you done scientific research before?
​

If you answer "yes", then please explain the nature of your research:

In what field in science did you do your so-called research?
​

I am not playing with words. They are simple questions, just requiring you to explain what research you have done.

Otherwise, answer "no". Because I think you are making claim that is dishonest, with regards to scientific research.

And since this thread is about the interpretation of the Qur'anic verse about the 7 heavens with "lamps" in the lower atmosphere, which you think means heaven = "atmosphere", then have you ever done scientific research into the earth atmosphere before?

 

[Fatihah]

Im happy to go wth Gnostics definition. he seems very reasonable.
Im not playing with words, Im still waiting for your definition of an atmospheric layer, any time would be nice.
you say the lamps are the light from the stars. The problem is you said the seven heavens are
"troposphere, stratosphere, OZone layer, mesosphere, thermosphere, ionosphere, exosphere."
the qur'an says the lamps or star depending on you translation are in the lower heaven. But the light from stars is visible all the way through every layer of the atmosphere not just the troposphere. In fact they are more visible at higher altitiudes as atmospheric interfernce is less. perhaps you might answer this point as well as providing us with your definition?

Response: There's no need to explain a definition to someone who wishes to follow or make up their own. Such a task is pointless and would just be for mere entertainment, and I'm not an entertainer.

 

[Fatihah]

No, it is not pointless.

skydivephil had ask you if you done scientific research before, back in post #211.


And you said "yes".



Because then in post #216, you ask skydivephil, to define "scientific research".


Scientific research is scientific research. In research, you'd investigate, you'd test, you'd observe, and you'd write down the findings, and you'd present your results to key players who would be interest in your research. With science, often you would find that mathematics are required before, during and after the test. And you would have to account for errors; acceptable margin of errors need to be determine. Your findings/results would either validate a theory or a evidence or mathematical equation, or it would not.

Scientific research mean the same thing, no matter what field in science you are researching on. The fundamental principle of research are all the same, because you still need to investigate, test, find evidence and write report, but each field would have different methodology on going about doing the research.

For example, a pathologist/pharmaeologist investigating the viability of a vaccine, would use different methods of testing to an aeronautic engineer testing the aerodynamic of new model of a jet fighter. They both do test, but how they go about doing so are different.

I don't know if you have any scientific background, but if you did, and then you wouldn't need to even ask skydivephil for definition for scientific research.

High school reports for science subject don't really count as "scientific research". Looking up scientific terminology in science dictionary or handbook, also don't count as "doing scientific research", because anyone can look up a dictionary.

So I will repeat skydivephil's question to you.

Have you done scientific research before?
​

If you answer "yes", then please explain the nature of your research:

In what field in science did you do your so-called research?
​

I am not playing with words. They are simple questions, just requiring you to explain what research you have done.

Otherwise, answer "no". Because I think you are making claim that is dishonest, with regards to scientific research.

And since this thread is about the interpretation of the Qur'anic verse about the 7 heavens with "lamps" in the lower atmosphere, which you think means heaven = "atmosphere", then have you ever done scientific research into the earth atmosphere before?

Response: And again, I never claimed to be a scientist, so your question is pointless.

 

[skydivephil]

Response: There's no need to explain a definition to someone who wishes to follow or make up their own. Such a task is pointless and would just be for mere entertainment, and I'm not an entertainer.

Fatihah , you are incredibly entertaining. First you told us to look up the layers of the atmosphere in astronomy books and that it would back up the Quran, when you found out science texts didint back up the Quruan you told us the scientists had it wrong. You then told us the strars are inside the atmosphere, then you claim its the light from stars thats in the atmosphere, you refuse to define layers of the atmopshere, you claim to have done scientific research, yet when probed you refuse to give us any details, saying you never claimed to be a scientist. This is great entertainment.

Now how can you claim Im making up my own definition when Ive given five independent web sites, including wikipedia and the National Centre for Atmospheric Research that all give a definition that agrees with what I said and all give a definition that leads to five layers of the atmosphere? Answer that please. or are you going to ust say its pointless as to answer a single question thats asked of you?

 

[gnostic]

Ok, you are not scientist. I got that.

But you've claim that you have done "scientific research", when free-falling Phil ask you. And this question is not pointless.

But they don't use dictionaries to determine scientific terminology. Have you every done any scientific research?

Response: Yes, I've done scientific research. And I don't know who "they" are, but if "they" don't use dictionaries to determine scientific terminology, then "they" are not speaking proper english..

Have you ever done scientific research?

And if yes. So what "scientific research" have you done, fatitah?

If you have never done one, then please change your answer to "No", so I won't bug you with the same question again, and again.

 

[Fatihah]

Fatihah , you are incredibly entertaining. First you told us to look up the layers of the atmosphere in astronomy books and that it would back up the Quran, when you found out science texts didint back up the Quruan you told us the scientists had it wrong. You then told us the strars are inside the atmosphere, then you claim its the light from stars thats in the atmosphere, you refuse to define layers of the atmopshere, you claim to have done scientific research, yet when probed you refuse to give us any details, saying you never claimed to be a scientist. This is great entertainment.

Now how can you claim Im making up my own definition when Ive given five independent web sites, including wikipedia and the National Centre for Atmospheric Research that all give a definition that agrees with what I said and all give a definition that leads to five layers of the atmosphere? Answer that please. or are you going to ust say its pointless as to answer a single question thats asked of you?

Response: Post 161 of page 17 proves to the contrary.

 

[Fatihah]

Ok, you are not scientist. I got that.

But you've claim that you have done "scientific research", when free-falling Phil ask you. And this question is not pointless.




Have you ever done scientific research?

And if yes. So what "scientific research" have you done, fatitah?

If you have never done one, then please change your answer to "No", so I won't bug you with the same question again, and again.

Response: And again, I never claimed to be a scientist, so your question is pointless.

 

[skydivephil]

Response: Post 161 of page 17 proves to the contrary.

still not answering the question, no suprise there then

 

[Fatihah]

still not answering the question, no suprise there then

Response: Likewise.

 

[gnostic]

Response: And again, I never claimed to be a scientist, so your question is pointless.

Re-read my post (#229) again.

I AM NOT ASKING IF YOU ARE A SCIENTIST!!!!

I am asking if you've ever done SCIENTIFIC RESEARCH.

Do not confuse my question SCIENTIFIC RESEARCH with my question about SCIENTIST. They are two different things.

You have already answer me that you are not scientist, but my questions about scientific research is completely different. Or don't you understand my question.

THIS IS BL#@DY FRUSTRATING. You can even answer honestly. You have persistently avoid answering them.

Can't you read?

You said you "Yes" to skydivephil (#212) when he asked you if you done scientific research (#211).

You wrote in post #212:

Yes, I've done scientific research.

That's exactly the answer you gave to skydivephil, when he asked you. So my questions are valid.

Please RE-READ YOUR OWN ANSWER to skydivephil on post 212. I've quoted what you've written, and yet you ignore my question.

So I am asking what type of scientific research HAVE YOU DONE?

Do you understand what I am asking and why I am asking you this. You've claimed you have done scientific research, so I am asking you to tell us WHAT "scientific research"?

Seriously, you're either have a lot of trouble understanding English, or you are deliberately evading my valid questions, wiggling like a snake.

So these are my questions, the same one , one more time, and give me honest and straight answers.

• Have you done scientific research before?
• What scientific research have you done?

Or can't you be honest, even to yourself?

 

[Fatihah]

Re-read my post (#229) again.

I AM NOT ASKING IF YOU ARE A SCIENTIST!!!!

I am asking if you've ever done SCIENTIFIC RESEARCH.

Do not confuse my question SCIENTIFIC RESEARCH with my question about SCIENTIST. They are two different things.

You have already answer me that you are not scientist, but my questions about scientific research is completely different. Or don't you understand my question.

THIS IS BL#@DY FRUSTRATING. You can even answer honestly. You have persistently avoid answering them.

Can't you read?

You said you "Yes" to skydivephil (#212) when he asked you if you done scientific research (#211).

You wrote in post #212:



That's exactly the answer you gave to skydivephil, when he asked you. So my questions are valid.

Please RE-READ YOUR OWN ANSWER to skydivephil on post 212. I've quoted what you've written, and yet you ignore my question.

So I am asking what type of scientific research HAVE YOU DONE?

Do you understand what I am asking and why I am asking you this. You've claimed you have done scientific research, so I am asking you to tell us WHAT "scientific research"?

Seriously, you're either have a lot of trouble understanding English, or you are deliberately evading my valid questions, wiggling like a snake.

So these are my questions, the same one , one more time, and give me honest and straight answers.

• Have you done scientific research before?
• What scientific research have you done?

Or can't you be honest, even to yourself?

Response: The topic of the thread is the 7 layers of heaven, not if I've done scientific research, thus your whole question is pointless and a sidetrack from the topic. However, you can continue to ask if you like, and I'll continue to give the same answer.

 

[England my lionheart]

This is so like this thread http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=BklT7Qy07Is

 

[gnostic]

The topic of the thread is the 7 layers of heaven, not if I've done scientific research, thus your whole question is pointless and a sidetrack from the topic.

Why did you answer "yes" (post 212) to skydivephil's question (post 211), but you won't answer questions of mine?

My questions are relevant to the exchange of posts from 211 to 216, between you and skydivephil. And my first post to you was at 217. So don't give me your self-righteous Islamic crap that my questions weren't relevant.

Are you going to confirm that you have or not done "scientific research"? That's what you claim in post 212. A claim that you can't support because you keep turning aside my questions. You may have look up scientific dictionary or handbook, but you have never done a single evidence-finding scientific research in your worthless life.

However, you can continue to ask if you like, and I'll continue to give the same answer.

You keep avoiding my questions only confirm my suspicion of you not only never done a scientific research in your life, that you are nothing more than a boastful but cowardly liar. You are disgraceful to yourself (because you can't even be honest to yourself) and to your religion.

 

[Fatihah]

Why did you answer "yes" (post 212) to skydivephil's question (post 211), but you won't answer questions of mine?

My questions are relevant to the exchange of posts from 211 to 216, between you and skydivephil. And my first post to you was at 217. So don't give me your self-righteous Islamic crap that my questions weren't relevant.

Are you going to confirm that you have or not done "scientific research"? That's what you claim in post 212. A claim that you can't support because you keep turning aside my questions. You may have look up scientific dictionary or handbook, but you have never done a single evidence-finding scientific research in your worthless life.



You keep avoiding my questions only confirm my suspicion of you not only never done a scientific research in your life, that you are nothing more than a boastful but cowardly liar. You are disgraceful to yourself (because you can't even be honest to yourself) and to your religion.

Response: To the contrary, your question is just an attempt to merely distract the thread from the topic, which is the 7 layers of heaven. Your question is not relative to the topic, thus the only reason why you persist on asking it is due to the fact that it can be refuted. So the purpose of asking the question is to draw us from that fact.

 

[gnostic]

Liar. Coward.

You've never done a single scientific research in your life, when in post 212 you "claim" you've did.

In case you didn't notice, even ask skydivephil ask what scientific research you've did, but you dodge the question.

Youve just contradicted yourself in the same post, why dont you reread what you wrote and have another go? Does the literal meaning stay the same or not stay the same, do buffalo's have wings or not?

perhaps you could aswer the question , what scientific research have you done?

Response: The answer is in the previous post. And perhaps you should provide as to what you mean by scientific research, so we can at least agree on what play of words you'll be using this time.

Your pathetic excuse that my question is pointless is nonsense, because skydivephil precisely the same question that he ask you in post 215. And unless you think his question is pointless in this thread, you are forgetting that Phil actually started this thread "7 layers of heaven" in the 1st place. He can ask any question he like, because he created this thread.

Your refusal to answer direct questions, showed that all you are, a braggart, a liar and a coward.

Can't answer simple questions, because you know in your worthless heart that you have lie to us. I don't think I can even believe anything you write now.

Suit yourself, coward. Liar.

 

[Fatihah]

Liar. Coward.

You've never done a single scientific research in your life, when in post 212 you "claim" you've did.

In case you didn't notice, even ask skydivephil ask what scientific research you've did, but you dodge the question.





Your pathetic excuse that my question is pointless is nonsense, because skydivephil precisely the same question that he ask you in post 215. And unless you think his question is pointless in this thread, you are forgetting that Phil actually started this thread "7 layers of heaven" in the 1st place. He can ask any question he like, because he created this thread.

Your refusal to answer direct questions, showed that all you are, a braggart, a liar and a coward.

Can't answer simple questions, because you know in your worthless heart that you have lie to us. I don't think I can even believe anything you write now.

Suit yourself, coward. Liar.

Response: Likewise.

 

[Conserver]

If seventh is construed to mean 7 AU, that is the orbit of the Genesis 1 "very good". The world, where the gas giants of our solar system were earth and lumnaries in a sky enclosure, perished. Planet Earth is a subsequent development.

 

[gnostic]

Response: Likewise.

I am not the one hiding something. Nor I am the one who made boastful claim, and not back it up.

Had you simply answer our question, and not tried to dodge out of answering legit and valid follow up question, then I would have not persisted in asking the same question.

If you don't know what "scientific research" then you should have said "no" (instead of yes", which is what you did in post 212), then neither skydivephil (post 215) nor I (post 218) would have ask you "what scientific research you have done?"

They are valid questions, because you said that you did. First you avoid answering phil's question. The thread on "7 layers of heaven" was created by phil's, so he can ask this follow-up question. Then you avoid mine.

If you say something, and then you will have to expect people may want clarification, by asking more questions. Refusing to answer wit this nonsense about the question being pointless, only make people think you are hiding something. It only make me suspicious that you are lying, and when I persisted, you have completely try to redirect my answer with these nonsense excuses.

But if you did answer our question, openly and honestly, then I would have never accuse you of being a liar or a coward.

You say "likewise". And yet...What did I lie about? Did I ever refuse to answer your question or anyone else?

Why can you be open and honest?

Either retract your statement about doing "scientific research" or explain what scientific research you have done before, then I will immediately retract my accusation that you are liar (for making false claim) and coward (for not answering my questions), and I will apologise to you.

Is it a sin for Muslim to lie or make false claim?