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Sunstone said:It's my understanding that it comes from the Koran, rather than being something made up by terrorists to help with recruiting.
At anyrate, the notion that I'd have 72 virgins to contend with would actually disuade me from joining the terrorists.
Seyorni said:What is the saint expected to do with the virgins?
SoyLeche said:It was suposed to say 72 Virginians"
Seyorni...it is wise to read the whole post before you post a comment. You obviously haven't read my post.Seyorni said:The whole idea is bizarre. What is the saint expected to do with the virgins? If he uses them for sex do they remain virgins? Are they replaced with fresh virgins? Or does he end up stuck forever in a houseful of maturing women?
And what of the virgins? What do they have to say about it, and where did they come from? Were they created de novo just for this purpose or did they have a terrestrial life at one time? Are they destined to be sex-toys forever?
What about righteous women -- do they get a harem of virgin men?
This whole thing strikes me as very unfair and exploitative of the virgins. Do many people actually believe this stuff literally? Do they think about the feelings of the virgins or the propriety of their servitude?
Judgement Day said:Seyorni...it is wise to read the whole post before you post a comment. You obviously haven't read my post.
Good question, my friend...but the answer is quite simple. That is why whenever we are talking about heaven, since the reality of heaven is beyond our imagination, we must refer it to Quran. There are depictions of heaven and hell in the Quran if you are interested to know about.YmirGF said:Judgement Day, how do Muslims resolve these two rather telling ideas? On the one hand you tell us that there is nothing more beautiful than talking about "Heaven"; whilst on the other hand we are told that no soul knows.
Tell me, my friend, what exactly is the POINT of talking about that which your own book tells you, you know NOTHING about? Doesn't it add up to mere wishful thinking? If you can wiggle out of that, I will be quite impressed. Good luck.
FIrst things first...I do realize that not all people relates virgin to sex, and I do apologize if that insulted you. I was not addressing that part of the post particular to you.YmirGF said:JD, I have read your Qur'an, a few times. I have read the descriptions of Heaven with a raised eyebrow and also read the depictions of Hellfire. You say that Heaven, or Paradise is beyond our imaginations. I DO agree. You simply cannot imagine what it is like. You really HAVE to be there.
I utterly reject the concept of Hellfire. Utterly and soundly. It does NOT exist.
In YOUR terms, Allah has already shown me much, and he shows what he will, to whom he pleases. (He also shows things to those who have the eyes to see.) I wish I could tell you more, but sadly, you would not likely understand.
I would tell you that the images of the Hellfire contained within the pages of the Noble Qur'an are relections of Muhammed's insanity. I really do not need further proof. Though I insist that Muhammed was as mad as a hatter, I do not care if you, or anyone, believes me or not. It is of no consquence. I would further suggest that the only reason people began to finally listen to Muhammed was because they were very afaid of him. They were very afraid that his message just might be true and so they threw their reason to the four winds and submitted to the delusion.
JD, how can anyone be expected to fear that which they love? The idea itself is insane. It doesn't matter how it is justified, for that will always remain true. Forgive me if I simply cannot be afraid of my dearest friend. How can the creation fear its creator? It simply makes no sense and can only be a misguided opinon.
BTW: Not everyone equates virgins with sex. Sheesh. Get a grip. Sorry, I simply reject the idea of being met by 72 pristine virgins. Though I would not rule out that God does not utilize the equivelent of a "Cosmic Welcome Wagon", it is NOT as described. Try to deal with it. I wish I could tell you more, but you'll just have to wait. You ARE gonna love it. Remember, and I INSIST, it does not matter if you believe me or not. There can be no compulsion in belief.
YmirGF said:I agree, but simply because god does not have emotions as we think of it and he does not know anger. Anger is a human affliction and results from misunderstanding how our actions affect the world we experience.
YmirGF said:I remember, often, reading the Qur'an and thinking, "How on earth would Muhammed know that!" Clearly he was seeing things, much in the way I understand them to be. SOME of his descriptions were right on the money. Dead straight, and I am not trying to deceive you.
IF I ever do descend that slope into unreason you can be rest assured I will remember to steal a few pages from Muhammed. His presentation was brilliant and he really did think of ALMOST everything.
I believe it is an error to think that God created Creation because he felt like it would be an interesting thing to do. It is my FEELING, intuitive grasp, if you will, that God created Creation out of necessity. He had to do it for reasons that are a bit hard to put into words.
The_Truth, there is indeed, but one God. My sense of god knows me very very well, and he also knows my feelings, very very well. What made me laugh so hard was your implication that I was denying his existence. Little could be further from the truth. Ultimately, it was he who opened my inner eyes, so many years ago. As I keep harping, it does not matter if you believe what I am saying. Reality will still be the reality that it is.
There is no verse within the Qur'an that says that there will be 72 virgins waiting for you in heaven, martyrs or otherwise. The 72 virgins references comes from an interpretation of one of the lesser known Hadiths. Hadiths are the records of the sayings and doings of the Prophet. They carry a lot of weight in Islam but not as much as the Qur'an.Ciscokid said:I am curious if the 72 virgins in heaven is a universal thing within Islam or is that something made up by terrorists to help with recruiting?
I'm sorry but I think we must agree to disagree that God does not know anger. Of course though, God's anger is much different from our own type of anger. God's anger is the anger of love, of which He wants the best for us. Just like the anger of our own parents to us. Their anger are not because of emotions, but simply because they want us to be the best that we can be.YmirGF said:I agree, but simply because god does not have emotions as we think of it and he does not know anger. Anger is a human affliction and results from misunderstanding how our actions affect the world we experience. Imho, god understands very well how his actions affect reality. I am just a man. I DO get angry, but not very often. When I do feel anger, I have learned that it is because of something I am not understanding and that is usually a truth I do not wish to admit. One does have to be brutally honest with themselves at times. Life goes much more smoothly in the light of compassion.
Yes, because with our awareness comes our cautiousness to which we should base all of our acts upon. It is a deterrent to prevent people doing bad deeds. Tell me, how is it more effective in a society to control the acts of people when there is no law?YmirGF said:I would only ask, "Why?" Does it really matter?
Thank you for your kind response. I personally think that Muslims in general need to start to mature. Sure they have a glorious past, but what is the use of it when they can only boast their past while their current conditions are obliterating themselves.YmirGF said:You put a warm face on Islam. All praises to Allah, for doing that.