9% Say they intentionally have not paid back student loans

[Quintessence]

Is waiving loans for those who could partially
or fully repay them really making society better?

The real problem is that secondary education is becoming unaffordable for a large segment of the population. And that has happened for a host of reasons - a squeezed and shrinking middle class, increased costs for running a university, reduced state and federal funding for higher education, among other things - all of which are considerably more complicated to solve than "but what if we just loaned them money at high interest rates to put them in debt for life?"

The loans shouldn't even be a thing. They shouldn't be needed if the state and federal government did its job of supporting higher education for its citizenry such that the cost of attending college was more or less negligible, as it was in the not so distant past.

As for whether or not a well-educated citizenry makes for a better society, "better" is always a subjective assessment and value judgement. But if you want a modern, Western democracy and republic that has any chance of sustaining itself and being functional (or even competitive, if we want to get all capitalist about it), a well-educated citizenry is an absolute must. Supporting education at all levels is an absolute must. Along with other super obvious things like supporting the health and wellness of your citizens, providing necessary common infrastructure like roads and electrical grids, ensuring adequate food supplies and combating food insecurity regardless of state and location, etc.

 

[Revoltingest]

The real problem is that secondary education is becoming unaffordable for a large segment of the population. And that has happened for a host of reasons - a squeezed and shrinking middle class, increased costs for running a university, reduced state and federal funding for higher education, among other things - all of which are considerably more complicated to solve than "but what if we just loaned them money at high interest rates to put them in debt for life?"

The loans shouldn't even be a thing. They shouldn't be needed if the state and federal government did its job of supporting higher education for its citizenry such that the cost of attending college was more or less negligible, as it was in the not so distant past.

As for whether or not a well-educated citizenry makes for a better society, "better" is always a subjective assessment and value judgement. But if you want a modern, Western democracy and republic that has any chance of sustaining itself and being functional (or even competitive, if we want to get all capitalist about it), a well-educated citizenry is an absolute must. Supporting education at all levels is an absolute must. Along with other super obvious things like supporting the health and wellness of your citizens, providing necessary common infrastructure like roads and electrical grids, ensuring adequate food supplies and combating food insecurity regardless of state and location, etc.

We have a fundamental disagreement about how
best to finance which types of higher education.
I prefer that the student make a judgement about
cost vs benefit. This requires more assistance to
help them understand what they're getting into.

 

[Quintessence]

We have a fundamental disagreement about how
best to finance which types of higher education.
I prefer that the student make a judgement about
cost vs benefit. This requires more assistance to
help them understand what they're getting into.

I can't speak for other institutions on this, but because the cost of higher education has gotten out of control there are actually mandatory programs all students taking out loans must complete prior to taking out loans - so they understand what they're getting into. None of which would be such a dire necessity if this country properly supported education like they did in my parent's time, where it more or less cost them a trivial amount to complete.

 

[Revoltingest]

I can't speak for other institutions on this, but because the cost of higher education has gotten out of control there are actually mandatory programs all students taking out loans must complete prior to taking out loans - so they understand what they're getting into. None of which would be such a dire necessity if this country properly supported education like they did in my parent's time, where it more or less cost them a trivial amount to complete.

Costs have risen because students are willing
to pay any price. Even at state schools.
I prefer that students receive more education
about dealing with the real world, particularly
what money is all about.

 

[LuisDantas]

May I just point out that for many or most people to deciding that they "can" pay student loans is, at the very least, difficult?

People have all kinds of reasons to spend money, even when they are gainfully employed and well paid. How reasonable is it to expect people to consistently put paying student loans ahead of medical expenses, personal housing projects, educational expenses of their own children, you name it?

At the very least, I think it is a matter of intellectual honesty to grant that it can be an emotionally difficult decision. No one loves feeling that it will be many years before they are out of debt.

 

[Quintessence]

Costs have risen because students are willing
to pay any price. Even at state schools.
I prefer that students receive more education
about dealing with the real world, particularly
what money is all about.

That is absolutely not how I would characterize the way students describe their expenses related to attending college, much less the reasons for the rising cost of higher education.

 

[Quintessence]

At the very least, I think it is a matter of intellectual honesty to grant that it can be an emotionally difficult decision. No one loves feeling that it will be many years before they are out of debt.

When I meet with students who are struggling academically, the top three things I see in their self-assessments in rough order of frequency are: (1) financial stress that has resulted in severe mental health issues, (2) relationships that have related to in severe mental health issues, and (3) students who honestly should just not be in college because they are not willing to do the work.

I hate, hate, how often I have conversations with students about the stress they are under because of all these expenses. Because it cascades into everything else. Like being able to eat and afford an apartment. I don't think folks who aren't active in the university system quite understand how bad it is compared to, say, when I went through college a couple decades ago.

 

[Revoltingest]

That is absolutely not how I would characterize the way students describe their expenses related to attending college, much less the reasons for the rising cost of higher education.

I'd expect students to have a different perspective.
Society & parents likely sold them a bill of goods.
Perspectives will change when they get out in the
working world, & run a business.

 

[Clizby Wampuscat]

We've established that there's all sorts of government spending you disagree with. Why do you think this is the issue that should be focused on?

Because this is the topic at hand. So you think I cannot object to any government sending because I cannot stop all I disagree with?

Because you will be on the hook for even more if they don't go to college.

Did you read the article I posted earlier, or at least my bullet-point summary? Spending money on post-secondary education:

• Increases the tax revenue from other people, so your share of government spending goes down.
• Reduces dependence on social supports, reducing costs for you.
• Reduces incarceration rates, again saving you money.

Where is the evidence for this, not just an article that says it does?

The question isn't whether you want to pay $1 to help send someone else to college or keep it in your pocket. The question is whether you want to pay $1 for other people's college or $3 for other people's imprisonment.

So its college or imprisonment? Come on, most people without college degrees don't end up in prison.

So this is an ideology you're unwilling to let go of, no matter how many people it would benefit - including yourself?

It is a moral and ethical issue.

Is your warped idea of "personal responsibility" so precious to you that you would rather personally pay more?

You have not provided evidence that I would.

Hey - guess what already exists:

https://home.treasury.gov/policy-issues/coronavirus/assistance-for-state-local-and-tribal-governments/homeowner-assistance-fund

I have already said I aom ok with programs to temporarily help people.

 

[Clizby Wampuscat]

Sure, screw the people and the betterment of human society, right? Who needs humans, anyway? Let them all go extinct!

I never said any of that. calm down.

 

[metis]

It is a moral and ethical issue.

When money is more important than people, yes, it is very much a moral issue. As the old African adage goes: "It take a whole village to raise a child".

 

[Clizby Wampuscat]

When money is more important than people, yes, it is very much a moral issue. As the old African adage goes: "It take a whole village to raise a child".

It is not an issue of money. It is an issue of responsibility. It does not take a village to raise a child. It takes good parenting and taxes.

 

[metis]

It is not an issue of money. It is an issue of responsibility. It does not take a village to raise a child. It takes good parenting and taxes.

The first part of your post contradicts the last part. The middle is nothing short of sheer nonsense, such as seemingly implying that only your parents helped you through your early years. What nonsensical garbage.

So, maybe go worship your money as that seems where your heart truly is.

 

[Clizby Wampuscat]

The first part of your post contradicts the last part. The middle is nothing short of sheer nonsense, such as seemingly implying that only your parents helped you through your early years. What nonsensical garbage.

So, maybe go worship your money as that seems where your heart truly is.

What? I never said that. You take out a loan you pay it back, that is moral and ethical. How this is controversial is beyond me.

Why do you think I worship money? I don't worship anything. I am for financial responsibility, that is not greed.