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9% Say they intentionally have not paid back student loans

Secret Chief

Vetted Member
You mean somebody else should pay for it which wouldn't make education free for those who DID pay for their higher education! Besides, in America k-12 is already free or paid for by others, however 3,000,000+ quit our free schools each year!
I believe through general taxation the fabric of a civilised society should be built, maintained and enhanced - so that means infrastructure, health service, education, emergency services, pensions, water & sewerage.... We should all contribute what we can to the society that we have, wish to maintain and wish to have. It's not about "somebody else" - such a selfish attitude.
 

Estro Felino

Believer in free will
Premium Member
Capitalists always blame the people they exploit. Because money is always more important.
It's Calvinist theology. They consider poverty a sin, whereas they think all wealthy people will go to Heaven.
Whereas the parable of Lazarus shows it's exactly the other way around. It's twisting the Gospel.

The social justice is a vertical justice, not a horizontal one.
The rich will need to pay high tuition fees.
The middle class affordable tuition fees.
The poor will pay nothing.

They want to punish poverty so they force poor people to pay as much as rich people.
 

PureX

Veteran Member
It's Calvinist theology. They consider poverty a sin, whereas they think all wealthy people will go to Heaven.
Whereas the parable of Lazarus shows it's exactly the other way around. It's twisting the Gospel.

The social justice is a vertical justice, not a horizontal one.
The rich will need to pay high tuition fees.
The middle class affordable tuition fees.
The poor will pay nothing.

They want to punish poverty so they force poor people to pay as much as rich people.
Dude, that post makes a lot of sense. Good job.
 

Colt

Well-Known Member
I believe through general taxation the fabric of a civilised society should be built, maintained and enhanced - so that means infrastructure, health service, education, emergency services, pensions, water & sewerage.... We should all contribute what we can to the society that we have, wish to maintain and wish to have. It's not about "somebody else" - such a selfish attitude.
Sure, the basics are ALREADY paid for! I find it selfish for >you< to volunteer that "others" pay for things that individuals should be responsible for themselves! You volunteer that someone else fund your virtue signaling!

There was a time when working families could save for their kids education but due to taxation and government spending-based inflation that's much more difficult! Fortunately, after 12 years of FREE education in America there are loan programs available for those who seek high education which is only wise if they are pursuing a career that will pay enough to make the loan payment manageable!
 

Colt

Well-Known Member
It's Calvinist theology. They consider poverty a sin, whereas they think all wealthy people will go to Heaven.
Whereas the parable of Lazarus shows it's exactly the other way around. It's twisting the Gospel.

The social justice is a vertical justice, not a horizontal one.
The rich will need to pay high tuition fees.
The middle class affordable tuition fees.
The poor will pay nothing.

They want to punish poverty so they force poor people to pay as much as rich people.
Not that I'm a Calvinists but I never heard of such a thing. Where is the source for that?
 

Colt

Well-Known Member
If and only if we cut federal subsidized loans then I am in favor of extensive loan forgiveness for the past loans. It will lower tuition and stop the rash of national student debt. Currently although college loans are a burden, there are ways to manage them. The real threat is that lots of new students are going unprepared into colleges, wracking up new debt. Many are headed for the same train wreck. The tuition will continue to double, and the loans will keep getting rubber stamped.
Thats true, they availability of loans and irresponsibility of barrowing is being exploited by colleges to raise tuition and fund huge building programs.
 

PureX

Veteran Member
Sure, the basics are ALREADY paid for! I find it selfish for >you< to volunteer that "others" pay for things that individuals should be responsible for themselves! You volunteer that someone else fund your virtue signaling!
Since when has virtue become a negative that we should avoid "signaling"? You seem to imagine that the nation's wealth shouldn't be used to serve the nation. That only individual wealth should be used to serve the individuals that got hold of it. I disagree. Economics is systemic. No one gets anything outside that system. And yet when some people get hold of some wealth, they immediate want to keep it all for themselves. To serve themselves exclusively. As if the rest of society had nothing to do with their getting hold of it.
There was a time when working families could save for their kids education but due to taxation and government spending-based inflation that's much more difficult!
It wasn't the government that caused this. It was capitalism turning greed into a virtue, and using that lie to destroy unity, and economic parity, and prosperity for all just so a few greedy pricks could live and behave like untouchable kings.
 
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Revoltingest

Pragmatic Libertarian
Premium Member
I think the fact that "student" here is referred to as a "consumer" shows the problem.

Education is not a commodity.
That's a perspective, not a fact.
It's a preparation for the next generation to join the workforce.
Much of education, especially college level,
prepares the student for nothing but follow
up courses.
If one studies 3rd wave feminist thought,
then one shouldn't borrow for it.
But if it's engineering, computer science,
business, etc, then borrowing is safer.
As a society, you have extreme incentive to try and do as good a job as possible to deliver a capable and educated next generation of workers.
Not everyone has that incentive. The
young tend to not think that far ahead.
They shouldn't be pushed into decisions
the consequences of which they're ill
equipped to judge.
 

Clizby Wampuscat

Well-Known Member
I'm not paying either. But I've never made enough to have to make them.
It's a moral act that would have a net gain on the economy because the crippling debts would be gone, people have more money to spend, and America can join the rest of the developed world that has made college free or very affordable.
This same argument can be made about mortgages. Do you support forgiving mortgage debt?
 

Revoltingest

Pragmatic Libertarian
Premium Member
American state unuversities are
an industry. On a x country trip my
then- boyfriend said to look for the construction
cranes in cities along the way. Thats where the
Uni is. He was right.
I remember one along I 80. One crane downtown. Four
on campus. 10% of population was...students.

Industry! Pig Iron!

Unis sell a bill of goods.
Just look at the price of books.

Never mind. You know.
Universities have lots of money.
And they have multiple tax advantages.
And students are willing to pay exorbitant costs.

It cost me about $4,000 total in tuition
for 5 years of school back in the 70s.
Prices are nuts today.
 

Clizby Wampuscat

Well-Known Member
I could be wrong here as I don't fully understand the complexities of the student loan system, but if student loans are anything like sub-prime mortgages, the point of the loan is not that a student should repay them. Having students in a lifetime of debt creates other commercial opportunities for those who have control of the loans. Banks and/or other financial institutions could repackage the debt, turn them in to derivatives and securities and sell it on in financial markets at an increased value to make a profit.

This of course doesn't change the fundamental value of the original debt, so it feeds into unsustainable speculation that will eventually lead to a crash. And having an entire generation perpetually in debt is an effective method of social control, as it's the same thing the west does to third world countries. The idea of student's "investing" in their future is just marketing spin to sell a bad idea to the general public, the same as promising the "american dream" of borrowing a mortgage so anyone can own your own home.

...but when the financial system realises the game is up and that student loans are practically worthless because there is an entire generation that can't afford to repay them, the banks will start screaming they are "too big to fail" and will ask the government to write off the loans anyway in a bailout package that will cost the tax payer billions or even trillions of dollars.

This is not "radical left wing" thinking. It's the difference between whether the government would rather wait for a global financial crisis to help the banks later, or help the students now. As the tax payer, you are screwed either way because the system is corrupt and broken by design and the government will take your money no matter what you do.

And before that happens, the loans get written off anyway.

Am I wrong? Anyone more informed than me is welcome to jump in...

After a quick google search, it looks (regrettably) like I'm in the right area:
They need to be paid either by the US citizen or the person that took out the loan.
 

Left Coast

This Is Water
Staff member
Premium Member
I'm a single person who just had to start paying back my student loans (which were for a healthcare admin degree, not gender studies or art history or whatever other field you think doesn't deserve to make money) again after the COVID pause. Even after applying for an "income based" repayment plan, my monthly loan payment remains hefty for my income level. I am seriously concerned whether I will make ends meet in the next couple of months. My rent also just increased this month so that has added even more to my financial stress. Thankfully I just got a promotion so that will bring a little more income my way.

The conservative response to people's real financial suffering consistently seems to be, "suck it up, if you don't have enough money it's your fault." People who struggle are seen as some deadbeat caricature who never work and only want things for free.

Where is the compassion? Where is the empathy? What are the actual solutions (not idealized, "if I were King" solutions) to people's real world financial issues right now? If it's not loan forgiveness, what is it?
 
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