A bit of compelled speech in Virginia

[Saint Frankenstein]

The crossover is in the who and where these things can be addressed.

The classroom or the teacher isn't the place.

A person says they are a particular pronoun, you use it. No doctor's note required or even warranted.

No one can make you disclose any medical condition even if you're transgender. If I say call me he or she or they, that's all that's required. Nothing else.

It's more a conversation to have with the school guidance counselor, nurse or whatever the equivalent is first. It shouldn't have to be something to force on the teachers themselves first. I'm just saying that it's ultimately a health issue first and foremost. It's a very serious thing, and you have to rule out other possible causes for it before making a decision on it. That's what doctors and therapists did for decades before the standards of care collapsed.

 

[fantome profane]

there's a chance it's being forced on them (generally their mothers, as you see in various cases of women using their kids as props to live vicariously through; there's whole industries built around that).

Honestly this smells like an urban legend, I would need evidence that this is really happening.

But if it is real it is not going to be addressed by some rogue teacher who refuses to behave civilly because of their religion.

 

[McBell]

No one can make you disclose any medical condition even if you're transgender.

I agree.
However, this has absolutely nothing to do with HIPAA:

Alan Meisel, a professor of law and bioethics at the University of Pittsburgh, told USA TODAY at the time that HIPAA’s rules apply only to sharing information between "covered entities." The U.S. Department of Health and Human Services describes covered entities as “health plans, health care clearinghouses, and those health care providers that conduct certain health care transactions electronically.”
​

Fact check: Asking about vaccinations doesn't violate HIPAA​

 

[SomeRandom]

Summary: A teacher is suspended for refusing to use the gender pronoun his student wants him to use. In other words, the teacher wasn't told what he couldn't say - e.g. shouting "fire" in a theatre - instead he was told what he MUST say. This sort of thing is a huge attack against free speech laws.

Judge Lifts Suspension Of Virginia Teacher Who Said He Won't Use Transgender Pronouns

Now it turns out he got his job back, but the point is that compelled speech is an idea that's making inroads into our society. It's quite deadly to freedom to tell people what they MUST say.

What kind of teacher doesn’t have any manners? If I’m at work and a person tells me to call them by a specific pronoun I do so. Not because I’m compelled to, but because my parents taught me to be respectful to others. To have manners and act civilly. Yeah I’m a massive jerk, but even I know better

I’m quite perturbed that “free speech” has been coopted by people who seem to just want to insult others and cry when they face societal consequences.

Also isn’t a teacher supposed to model good behaviour? All my cousins are teachers and they’d never do such a thing, because it’s unprofessional at best and insulting at worst

 

[Saint Frankenstein]

Honestly this smells like an urban legend, I would need evidence that this is really happening.

But if it is real it is not going to be addressed by some rogue teacher you refuses to behave civilly because of their religion.

It's real. The entire child beauty pageant industry is based around moms wanting to live vicariously their kids. The drag kids thing now is similar. It's a form of narcissism. Munchausen by proxy is an example of this sort of mentality, and it usually afflicts women.

 

[fantome profane]

It's real. The entire child beauty pageant industry is based around moms wanting to live vicariously their kids. The drag kids thing now is similar. It's a form of narcissism. Munchausen by proxy is an example of this sort of mentality, and it usually afflicts women.

But that is not the issue here. Tell me how many transgendered children (or children claiming to be transgender) are forced into it by their mothers?

I think you are just pulling this out of your ***.

 

[Heyo]

Exactly what kind of “ substantiation” should be required?

The right to bear that title/pronoun. A student can't ask her/his/their teacher to call them "Doctor" or refer to them as "his Highness". (Just to extrapolate in the other direction.)

 

[Kooky]

Summary: A teacher is suspended for refusing to use the gender pronoun his student wants him to use. In other words, the teacher wasn't told what he couldn't say - e.g. shouting "fire" in a theatre - instead he was told what he MUST say. This sort of thing is a huge attack against free speech laws.

Judge Lifts Suspension Of Virginia Teacher Who Said He Won't Use Transgender Pronouns

Now it turns out he got his job back, but the point is that compelled speech is an idea that's making inroads into our society. It's quite deadly to freedom to tell people what they MUST say.

Do you believe that teachers are free to say whatever they want in front of their students?
Because let me burst that bubble and tell you that this has never been the case in teaching, and is certainly also not the case for any customer-facing job.

All of these jobs have guidelines that ban or require the usage of certain terms or phrases. For example, I am compelled to use correctly gendered language when adressing my students, and I am also compelled to not use racist, sexist, or otherwise denigrating or humiliating speech in front of them (or really, anywhere where people could hear me while I'm on the clock).

I find it absolutely mind boggling that many Americans apparently don't know this and think being made to talk or not talk a certain way is a horrible intrusion into a person's freedom, but at the same time find nothing objectionable in employers putting their staff on constant surveillance, requiring mandatory drug tests to keep one's job, etc.

 

[Kooky]

I'm a trans man and I think these new woke guidelines to force things on people are bs. I bet most of those children haven't even been formally diagnosed as transgender/transsexual, anyway. I read in another article that the specific guideline or rule was basically saying that you must go along with whatever the child identifies as, with no requirement of substantiation.

I'm not trans but I still think that talking to people using terms they prefer to be talked to is a show of basic respect.

Is that not how it works in the US?

 

[Kooky]

It's real. The entire child beauty pageant industry is based around moms wanting to live vicariously their kids. The drag kids thing now is similar. It's a form of narcissism. Munchausen by proxy is an example of this sort of mentality, and it usually afflicts women.

Fortunately, we have teachers standing up to this vile practice by being absolute donkeys to their students.

 

[Kooky]

The right to bear that title/pronoun. A student can't ask her/his/their teacher to call them "Doctor" or refer to them as "his Highness". (Just to extrapolate in the other direction.)

Why aren't they allowed to ask?

 

[Kooky]

There's a whole lotta compelled speech when one
works in a licensed field. Become a real estate
broker...prescriptions & proscriptions abound.
Your example is just newer.

It boggles my mind that you are literally the only person in this thread to know this.
Does nobody else here work in a field where you interact with customers?

 

[Heyo]

Why aren't they allowed to ask?

It would be an illegal bearing of a title. At least in Germany. I don't know if you can call yourself a Doctor in the US or elsewhere. "Doctor" Hovind tried that but was called out and doesn't do it any more.

 

[Evangelicalhumanist]

Summary: A teacher is suspended for refusing to use the gender pronoun his student wants him to use. In other words, the teacher wasn't told what he couldn't say - e.g. shouting "fire" in a theatre - instead he was told what he MUST say. This sort of thing is a huge attack against free speech laws.

Judge Lifts Suspension Of Virginia Teacher Who Said He Won't Use Transgender Pronouns

Now it turns out he got his job back, but the point is that compelled speech is an idea that's making inroads into our society. It's quite deadly to freedom to tell people what they MUST say.

On the other hand, it costs me literally nothing to use a pronoun that the person I'm speaking to would prefer, so I do. I've been learning new words -- and new ways to use them -- all of my life, and it hasn't hurt me a bit.

Look, the teacher is uncomfortable because he grew up in another age -- when we refused to recognize that not everybody is -- both in body and in mind -- a single gender. We've thought all sorts of other things about people before -- like that blacks aren't quite human, or "thy neighbour" only means someone of our own tribe or race -- and learned better. I would have thought a teacher would know how important learning new things is.

 

[Stevicus]

It would be an illegal bearing of a title. At least in Germany. I don't know if you can call yourself a Doctor in the US or elsewhere. "Doctor" Hovind tried that but was called out and doesn't do it any more.

I think one can call oneself anything one wants. Like Julius Erving was called "Dr. J," but it was not any attempt to defraud or mislead anyone into thinking he was a real doctor.

Some have also questioned whether non-medical doctors should be allowed to call themselves "doctor."

 

[9-10ths_Penguin]

The right to bear that title/pronoun. A student can't ask her/his/their teacher to call them "Doctor" or refer to them as "his Highness". (Just to extrapolate in the other direction.)

So you'd want all the kids to demonstrate the "right" to their pronouns? Why? Doesn't that seem a bit extreme?

Or are you suggesting that only the trans and non-binary kids go through that?

 

[Revoltingest]

It boggles my mind that you are literally the only person in this thread to know this.
Does nobody else here work in a field where you interact with customers?

It's outside the experience of most people.

 

[wellwisher]

Summary: A teacher is suspended for refusing to use the gender pronoun his student wants him to use. In other words, the teacher wasn't told what he couldn't say - e.g. shouting "fire" in a theatre - instead he was told what he MUST say. This sort of thing is a huge attack against free speech laws.

Judge Lifts Suspension Of Virginia Teacher Who Said He Won't Use Transgender Pronouns

Now it turns out he got his job back, but the point is that compelled speech is an idea that's making inroads into our society. It's quite deadly to freedom to tell people what they MUST say.

I like to think of myself as "the natural sex", since I naturally assumed the sex that was assigned to my body, by nature, at birth. This always felt natural. Natural, in this context, is taboo to say. The teacher may not have wished to say that, either, since it can create waves or hurt different feelings.

Only the opposites; choices part from natural body assignment, are allowed to make their distinction? This double standard is part of the progressive way of brain washing. It uses selective censorship, since their position will not hold up under free speech and critical analysis.

Male and female; natural assignment, is the only way to make babies. While babies and sexual reproduction is the cornerstone of the theory of evolution. Procreation is how DNA is merged, mutated and passed forward for the needs of evolution. Most of the genders and all homosexuals cannot reproduce via their choice of gender. This means these are not part of evolution, but is an alternate or leftist form of creationism. The gods of leftist creation formed this gimmick over the past few decades.

To make this leftist creationism work, requires a blend of commandeering and censorship of language, since these notions will not hold up well under the open forums of free speech. It is an illusion that needs the language mirrors set up a certain way for the magic trick to work. Take away the mirrors and the trick is easy to see. Evolution and gene transfer takes the mirror away.

Since these created genders, cannot reproduce, my guess is this brain storm was part of a social engineering experiment, designed for voluntary self sterilization, without having to alter the body. This is better than abortion in many ways. Relative to evolution, this lack of selective advantage with respect to gene transfer via procreation, should cause this creation to collapse onto itself. It's only hope is to game the system via human selection, since it is not part of natural evolution.

It is funny how the same people who argue for evolution, cannot see the irony of there own creationism. Go read evolution again and look for the irony. You can take a person put of religion, but you cannot take religion out of the person. I like showing how psychological magic tricks work.

Alternately, the natural way of male and female is part of evolution and this side of the coin tells me that evolution is part of God's plan. Human free will and choice allows for human creationism like infinite genders.

 

[fantome profane]

It's outside the experience of most people.

Hardly.

Everyone who has ever had a job knows this.

 

[Revoltingest]

Hardly.

Everyone who has ever had a job knows this.

Apparently not the OP.