A Bunch of Reasons Why I Question Noah's Flood Story:

[F1fan]

Then we must raise our kids with discernment, critical thinking and not to give up their sense making to others . You can be a false convert going through the motions but not actually be saved , according to the bible.

How would you feel if kids use their critical thinking skill and start questioning the fantastic claims of salvation and other religious ideas?

 

[F1fan]

I know people who've felt the same way, a friend had two Geology Masters and the Bible intrigued him. After two years of study on both sides of the issues, in original Creation and trusted Jesus for salvation.

These are fringe people and they are anomalies. The majority of experts are not convinced there is any credible evidence to support a literal interpretation of Genesis. Creationists are very clever with their fraud and some people are willing to let this disinformation convince them. It's not an objective approach.

There are some easy answers for what you've proposed here, and some more challenging apologetics, but the answers are there. There seems to be evidence on both sides, for and against the Flood and Creation stories, but I promise you God is able to instruct us.

It seems to me God is doing a terrible job if some believes are confused about reality while experts are not.

 

[robocop (actually)]

No, no, no. Some of your ideas have been tested already and the myth of the flood has been refuted on some of the tests that you mentioned. You refuted your hypothesis before you even made it. That may be a first.

See arxiv.org the wow signal.

 

[robocop (actually)]

While there may be events discussed in the bible that are consistent with what we have found in history, that does not mean that the entirety of the bible is an historical document. Beyond the flood, we also have the problems of an utter lack of evidence to substantiate the exodus.



Science depends greatly and repeatablility. If the earth acted in modes of reality that we don't understand, then our current conclusions about the earth would not be able to pass the tests of falsifiability, testability, predictability and repeatability.



Genesis 7:2 tells Noah to take 2 of every7 kind, and there are at least that many "kinds" (species) of birds, reptiles, mammals, amphibians and insects. So it says so in the bible; and it says so again in Genesis 6:20



Then you have nothing.



For entertainment. To encourage those who believe Noah's Ark to be an actual historical event to try to stop suspending their disbelief and maybe think. Not speculate. Think.



If you tell me Mount Vesuvius erupted in AD 79, I would expect to find evidence of that eruption in the soil. Why wouldn't I? It was a powerful event. The flood is far more powerful and overwhelming in its affect on earth than a single volcano. Why would I not expect to find evidence of such an event written in the geological column? And if I don't find evidence of such an event written in the geological column, why would I believe the scrolls?



Why should I believe this claim based on such flimsy evidence? Evolution has much more evidence than someone writing something down, yet you (probably) don't believe. Yet I am supposed to disbelieve something with so much evidence in favor of things with so little evidence?



No. Examination of the scrolls indicate that they are "authentic" which is not the same as saying the claims within them are "correct".



Why should I believe this claim based on such flimsy evidence? Evolution has much more evidence than someone writing something down, yet you (probably) don't believe. Yet I am supposed to disbelieve something with so much evidence in favor of things with so little evidence?



Probably, but not necessarily. No physical evidence was found of Troy for a very long time; until that evidence was presented, it was believed to be a myth. And rightfully believed to be a myth (as there was no substantiate evidence). Though Troy existed and was sacked, I am quite certain that the Sun God did not rain arrows of fire down upon the enemy.



We have cooberative evidence that the Assyrians sacked Judah; it was written about in 2 disparate cultures. We have archeological evidence (Archaeologists find Assyrian siege ramp at biblical city of Azekah) ... but the Flood, which affected the whole world, has nothing but a parchment?



Not necessarily; but sure voids the idea that it is an infallible and represents an actual historical record.



There is no "evidence turning up and embarrassing the opponents".



It is not speculation to expect evidence; such as Troy, the Assyrian Siege or Mount Vesuvius leaves evidence, but the flood (a much larger event than all those combined exponentially) does not.



Yes. And we have powers of explanation as to why that is so. We have records that indicate that it was so (such as, you guessed it, fossils). Strange how we can find evidence of these beings from millions of years ago; but can't find evidence of a world wide flood just a few thousand years ago.

Outside of the 5 books of Moses, Time magazine said it was historical.

May be testable in the future.

 

[Dan From Smithville]

Then we must raise our kids with discernment, critical thinking and not to give up their sense making to others . You can be a false convert going through the motions but not actually be saved , according to the bible.

And now we know. I had a feeling.

 

[F1fan]

Moses parted the Red Sea. Was that, too, a normal weather pattern? God can do anything, including make it rain harder than usual.

Yet God couldn't;t make a creation that failed and needed to be largely destroyed for a "do over". And of course this didn't fix anything since some time later God had to impregnate a woman and let this child be sacrificed to himself so the sins that plague mankind (due to the Creator setting up A&E to fail in the Garden) would be resolved.

I think if Christians are going to interpret all these ideas literally they might have to consider that the God is not very competent, or it's simply cruel.

Take COVID, for example. Revelation 15 says that God will punish us for attacking Iraq and send seven plagues (including COVID apparently). This is the worst plague in the century, and it brought the most powerful nation in the world to its knees. Surely if God could do that, a mere bit of moisture would be easy.

Really? So God creates diseases and the victims are largely those who had nothing to do with electing people responsible for the Iraq invasion? A competent God would cause a collapse of the Republican Party convention if it wanted to target specific people. But random killing? Let's note that conservatives in the USA are kind of OK with the death count, so why is that?

Could it be your assessment might not be accurate, as you are framing your God in a very bad light.

 

[Dan From Smithville]

I know people who've felt the same way, a friend had two Geology Masters and the Bible intrigued him. After two years of study on both sides of the issues, He believed in original Creation and trusted Jesus for salvation.

There are some easy answers for what you've proposed here, and some more challenging apologetics, but the answers are there. There seems to be evidence on both sides, for and against the Flood and Creation stories, but I promise you God is able to instruct us.

What is that evidence on the flood and creation side that you mention here? What are those easy answers?

 

[robocop (actually)]

There are things that can still be tested. For instance, if the gene pool had a bottleneck, we might later find a sign in the DNA that we haven't yet. Maybe we have with the wow signal at arxiv.org.

Since the animals would have eaten each other, that may have only God as an explanation.

 

[gnostic]

TIME magazine ran an article that said besides the five books of Moses, the Old Testament is historical.

Time magazine aren't the publishers that do much in terms of in-depth investigations.

The books of Joshua, Judges, Samuel are still myths. And though some of Kings are historical, those about Solomon and Elijah are not.

For instances, we can verify that Ahab of Israel did reign, because of him being mentioned as contemporary to Shalmanesser III (I think), from independent Assyrian sources, but no independent verification to Elijah and other prophets who were associated with Ahab. For examples, there are no mentions of miracles of Elijah, including him being spirited away to heaven in fiery chariot drawn by flying horses.

This is why the OT Bible isn’t a very reliable source. Whatever historicity the OT have, is marred by unbelievable and unverifiable stories.

 

[robocop (actually)]

Time magazine aren't the publishers that do much in terms of in-depth investigations.

The books of Joshua, Judges, Samuel are still myths. And though some of Kings are historical, those about Solomon and Elijah are not.

For instances, we can verify that Ahab of Israel did reign, because of him being mentioned as contemporary to Shalmanesser III (I think), from independent Assyrian sources, but no independent verification to Elijah and other prophets who were associated with Ahab. For examples, there are no mentions of miracles of Elijah, including him being spirited away to heaven in fiery chariot drawn by flying horses.

This is why the OT Bible isn’t a very reliable source. Whatever historicity the OT have, is marred by unbelievable and unverifiable stories.

I can believe it on the evidence you just mentioned.

 

[Subduction Zone]

See arxiv.org the wow signal.

Link it. Why do people expect others to do their homework?

 

[Subduction Zone]

There are things that can still be tested. For instance, if the gene pool had a bottleneck, we might later find a sign in the DNA that we haven't yet. Maybe we have with the wow signal at arxiv.org.

Since the animals would have eaten each other, that may have only God as an explanation.

There is no universal bottleneck.

Do you realize that the story of a man waking up in a cheap motel ice filled bathtub missing a kidney is a myth?

 

[robocop (actually)]

Link it. Why do people expect others to do their homework?

https://arxiv.org/ftp/arxiv/papers/1303/1303.6739.pdf

 

[robocop (actually)]

There is no universal bottleneck.

Do you realize that the story of a man waking up in a cheap motel ice filled bathtub missing a kidney is a myth?

There is no universal bottleneck yet, unless maybe for that link.

We don't know everything about DNA yet.

 

[Jose Fly]

Sorry. "the truth of why you are here". You don't have to post in a thread, in order to show interest in it. You don't have to mention the name of a particular group (which seems to be always on "your lips") or the name of a poster (which seem to be always on "your lips"), if you are just interested in why this topic generates so much interest from different sides.
Try one more time.

Ah, so once again asking nPeace a simple question proves to be a waste of time.

I have to wonder why you're so reluctant to answer such simple questions. What are you hiding? What are you afraid might happen if you answer? You should probably ask those questions of yourself if you want to be honest with yourself.

 

[John1.12]

How would you feel if kids use their critical thinking skill and start questioning the fantastic claims of salvation and other religious ideas?

That was my point . Yes starting with the bible. And yes salvation is fantastic.

 

[TagliatelliMonster]

Moses parted the Red Sea. Was that, too, a normal weather pattern?

No. Instead, that's a mythical tale that never actually occured.

Take COVID, for example. Revelation 15 says that God will punish us for attacking Iraq and send seven plagues (including COVID apparently).

Pandemics are part of the natural course of life. This is not the first and it won't be the last.
Apart from your a priori beliefs and confirmation bias, you also have exactly zero rational reason to think it was "send by god to punish us". And as said, it doesn't even require a "special" explanation, because there is nothing special about this virus at all.

In fact, humans were able to conquer it by developing a vaccine in less then a year after it first surfaced.
Your god sucks. If humans would create a virus with the goal of a disrupting pandemic, it would be FAR MORE deadly as well.

This is the worst plague in the century

It's not actually. The spanish flu was a lot more devastating.

, and it brought the most powerful nation in the world to its knees.

Did it? Did it, really?
I say it didn't. It disrupted the economy a bit, and that's about it.

Sure, many people died. But in the great scheme of things, it wasn't that many. Far less then with the spanish flu. ENORMOUSLY less then the black plague.

In reality, the mortality rate of covid is comparable to that of the common flu. The difference is that "herd immunity" of the flu protects many people for whom the flu is dangerous. But the mortality really is about the same: between 2 and 4%

The main difference between covid and the common flu, is that covid is new and nobody had immunity, which made it spread more easily. That's it.

The fact is that the vast majority of people who got infected with covid, don't even know it, as they had zero symptoms.

Surely if God could do that, a mere bit of moisture would be easy.

If your god is responsible for Covid, then color me extremely unimpressed.
Off course, there is zero reason to think your god is responsible. Or that your god even exists to take credit for anything for that matter....

 

[TagliatelliMonster]

There is no universal bottleneck yet, unless maybe for that link.

We don't know everything about DNA yet.

We know more then enough to be able to definitely say that there is no such thing as a universal bottleneck.
Far more then required complete genomes have been sequenced to be able to draw that conclusion.

 

[robocop (actually)]

We know more then enough to be able to definitely say that there is no such thing as a universal bottleneck.
Far more then required complete genomes have been sequenced to be able to draw that conclusion.

We don't know everything the DNA does. We don't know for sure that genetic drift lays out life through time.

 

[robocop (actually)]

We don't know everything the DNA does. We don't know for sure that genetic drift lays out life through time.

Of course, it would be difficult since genetic drift, radioactive dating and biological features all coincide.