A Bunch of Reasons Why I Question Noah's Flood Story:

[robocop (actually)]

But nothing about the miracles of god or of their prophets mentioned in the OT as real historical events, which make the Bible on the whole as unreliable sources.

That would include the NT too.

Jesus may have been a real person, but the gospels recording lots of the events cannot be verified, and the few that mentioned are not very accurate.

For example, one gospel (Luke’s) say that Jesus was born in Bethany around the time that Herod was alive and during Augustus was still emperor.

BUT his birth was recorded that occurred when the census of Quirinius was about to take place, which would require Joseph to travel to Bethlehem, and that it would occurred the “world” (as in all the provinces in Roman Empire).

Except all that isn’t impossible, because Quirinius was never governor of Syria while Herod was still alive, and no census took place until 10 years after Herod’s death (4 BCE), when Augustus banished Herod Archelaus from Judaea in 6 CE, thereby turning Judaea into a Roman province.

Quirinius was serving as governor of Galatea at the time, and was trying to quell a rebellion in neighboring Cilicia, while Herod was still alive. Quirinius only became governor in Syria in 6 CE when Judaea became a Roman province, 10 years after Herod’s death.

Another error is that census only took place in 6 CE in Judaea, and not the rest of Roman provinces.

And still another error, is that subjects would only register for census in the place they were currently living in, not the ancestral home of the tribes. Joseph didn’t need to register if his home was in Nazareth, Galilee. Galilee wasn’t a Roman province at that time.

It is these types of errors and inconsistencies that make the NT unreliable as historical sources.

Aw, but I've had spiritual blessings. But signs and miracles don't convert.

If you'll listen to me, I will tell you about some blessings.

 

[nPeace]

I googled "Why is fossilization rare" and came up with loads of articles on the subject.

Why are fossils rare? | Socratic.

Fine. I have a feeling @F1fan knew that, as well. He got his answer then. Thanks.

 

[gnostic]

Aw, but I've had spiritual blessings. But signs and miracles don't convert.

If you'll listen to me, I will tell you about some blessings.

You mean the blessings of the Holy Spirit.

I am well aware of Mormon practice, where supposedly such blessings give spiritual insights, thereby confirming ones’ beliefs or to clear confusion.

I am not a complete novice. When I was younger, during my teenager days, I was actually looking at number of different churches to join one. And I did personal research by attending numbers of different churches, including that of LDS.

Almost join one Protestant church, but had argument with one pastor when I was 20, which stopped me from joining and there was a period of hiatus, 14 years of not opening the Bible.

Anyway, LDS was one of the church I learned something about, and one of those things was about the blessings, the bestowing of Holy Spirit that supposedly strengthen one’s faith through spiritual insights.

It has been a very long time, but isn’t that what you talking about?

 

[robocop (actually)]

You mean the blessings of the Holy Spirit.

I am well aware of Mormon practice, where supposedly such blessings give spiritual insights, thereby confirming ones’ beliefs or to clear confusion.

I am not a complete novice. When I was younger, during my teenager days, I was actually looking at number of different churches to join one. And I did personal research by attending numbers of different churches, including that of LDS.

Almost join one Protestant church, but had argument with one pastor when I was 20, which stopped me from joining and there was a period of hiatus, 14 years of not opening the Bible.

Anyway, LDS was one of the church I learned something about, and one of those things was about the blessings, the bestowing of Holy Spirit that supposedly strengthen one’s faith through spiritual insights.

It has been a very long time, but isn’t that what you talking about?

When I was in second grade, my eyes crossed and I let it happen for fun. I ended up with double vision/ a third nerve paulsy. After 6 months I decided to get a blessing from the missionaries. I told them I believed in Jesus Christ. In exactly 7 days I was healed. Most people that get double vision never recover.

When I was in sixth grade, I had double vision again. My parents didn't waste any time. After a week I had another blessing and was cured in exactly 7 days.

 

[Subduction Zone]

I googled "Why is fossilization rare" and came up with loads of articles on the subject.

Why are fossils rare? | Socratic.

I do not even understand why some people need to ask "Why" to that question. But then I had the advantage of growing up in the country. I know what happens to the bodies of most animals. After the soft flesh is eaten even the bones get chewed on. Many species know that they need calcium and will gnaw on bones, especially rodents. Their teeth are always growing so they have to both wear them down and find the raw materials to replace them at the same time. What isn't eaten decomposes over a year or so. One does not find the skeletons of small animals that are over a year old and even large ones only last a few years before they are gone.

 

[F1fan]

That was my point . Yes starting with the bible. And yes salvation is fantastic.

Fantastic in the sense of fantasy.

 

[F1fan]

That was my point . Yes starting with the bible. And yes salvation is fantastic.

And you evaded my question. I asked you:

How would you feel if kids use their critical thinking skill and start questioning the fantastic claims of salvation and other religious ideas?

Care to answer this?

 

[F1fan]

When I was in second grade, my eyes crossed and I let it happen for fun. I ended up with double vision/ a third nerve paulsy. After 6 months I decided to get a blessing from the missionaries. I told them I believed in Jesus Christ. In exactly 7 days I was healed. Most people that get double vision never recover.

When I was in sixth grade, I had double vision again. My parents didn't waste any time. After a week I had another blessing and was cured in exactly 7 days.

This is explained as a psychological phenomenon. People will attribute good luck to an item or prayer to help a random experience seem to have a specific cause that is about them.

 

[F1fan]

Let me just say this. My function is that science should be non mystical and religion too. Either there is an explanation or there isn't. My function is to find one golden explanation that satisfies everyone or admit defeat.

The animals on the ark could have had recessive genes in all their genes; God could handle that. Then they diversify as though there was no bottleneck.

It doesn't work that way. Besides, there's no evidence of a global flood.

 

[F1fan]

Other floods? Which ones?

Any flood that happens has similar elements. There is floating debris that ends up settling wherever the water leaves it. Any plants or animals will remain where they were when they were covered with water and debris. I was pointing out that floods leave evidence that they occurred because of this phenomenon of leaving organic material as the water recedes.

But you avoided my questions:

When all that water recedes (quite quickly, and where did it go?) why wouldn't all the organic matter settle in one big mass/layer like it does in other floods?

A. where does water recede to in a global flood? In normal earthly floods the water drains into streams and rivers, and eventually carried to oceans. That's because the whole damn planet isn't flooded at once.

B. why isn't there a massive layer of material from a flood? Have you ever seen the effects of a flood? Mud and plant material everywhere, plus chairs, trash, picnic tables, buckets, etc.

Organic matter settle? The billions of transitional fossils must be still around then.

You might be right. We have not searched the whole planet yet. There are certainly many more fossils that humans will find as time goes on. And thus far the fossils we find demonstrate that species on the planet evolve over time. Despite all the discovery of fossils there has been no indication that the planet had a massive flood event some 4000 years ago.

Why do they say fossilization is rare?

I noticed this has been addressed already.

 

[gnostic]

When I was in second grade, my eyes crossed and I let it happen for fun. I ended up with double vision/ a third nerve paulsy. After 6 months I decided to get a blessing from the missionaries. I told them I believed in Jesus Christ. In exactly 7 days I was healed. Most people that get double vision never recover.

When I was in sixth grade, I had double vision again. My parents didn't waste any time. After a week I had another blessing and was cured in exactly 7 days.

And that have nothing to do with the thread.

What are the issues are (A) the reliance of people’s faith on the book, a scripture, that are not very reliable sources as history records, and (B) a scripture that require people to pretend if it is a natural science treatise, when it is not.

It is the same with all other scriptures, but in this case, the subject is about Noah’s story about the Flood and the Ark.

No one is questioning your belief to the story, because you can believe whatever you like. But the questions in this topic is about whether it has some “scientific” merits or “historical” merits.

The answers are “no” to both.

 

[rational experiences]

a fossil in stone, was living owned natural water as a base support of its bio living tissue. Stones seal was first just in empty spatial pressure. Then after the Sun cooling like planets reburst like planets did.....it ejected its mass. Planets just ejected its volcanic mass and off gases.

The sun attacked the planets and converted their bodies by giving the planets its owned mass.

Hence any fossil would be water based present like the body stone was a secondary reactive sealing cooling process.

Ask self scientist did you not theory science for God the earth as stone products and how to attack convert and then regain energy held unnaturally and reactive in a machine condition.....when Nature never owned the controlled conditions that machines did?

Yes says my brother.

So brother scientist you always knew you could force a control, yet the control was dangerous and your machine could blow up anytime as control is only conditioned upon you controlling both the machine and how it forces a reaction?

Yes.

Is that how you gained artificial states brother?

Yes.

Why?

Natural never owned the creation or holding of an artificial state....a scientist forced it.

Did you learn your lesson brother?

No. I still blow up my own machines and they also overheat as I lie.

What do you lie about?

That my thoughts owned the state a body sun mass converting earth mass naturally what I thought about.

Lying the condition the scientist.

Father said the Earth core is colder in metal core vacuum pressure navel mass as Earth dropped with the Universal sun blasting event into the deep state colder space. Our metal core is colder as it owned less radiation than sun metals.

Sun metals are far hotter as the sun is still burning, when Earths metal core is not.

Just basic common sense allowed your spiritual brother to name you that liar Destroyer as you are that self.

 

[blü 2]

Moses parted the Red Sea.

It appears that very likely there was no Egyptian captivity and no historical Moses.

If there was, and if Moses profited from a convenient lower water level in the Red Sea, that would be coincidence. Vastly more probable is that it's fable.

Was that, too, a normal weather pattern? God can do anything, including make it rain harder than usual.

Then why is it that God never says and never does?

Why is it that the world behaves exactly as if God (and gods) existed only as concepts / things imagined in individual brains?

Take COVID, for example. Revelation 15 says that God will punish us for attacking Iraq

I've just read Revelation 15 carefully, and first, it was written 2000 years ago, second it never mentions Iraq and third if you think Covid has been sent by angels at God's command then surely you'll agree that God is one sick puppy.

 

[TagliatelliMonster]

Sorry but the Bible says for good reason that you cannot know God unless you do His will.

And the Quran says mohammed flew to heaven on a winged horse.
And the scientology lore says Lord Xenu will one day return to wage war against our immortal inner Thetans
And Lord of The Ring says that there is this one ring to rule them all.

Why would I care what the bible says?

Also, this doesn't change anything about the post I was replying to. The statement in that post still does not follow.

There are plenty of Christian noble prize winners.

So?

 

[TagliatelliMonster]

The Bible is the most popular book on earth

So?

and most religious books are very similar... I've read them.

Similar in that they make the same type of fantastical claims for which no evidence at all exists.
Not similar in terms of actual content at all. Off course, the abrahamic religions will be more similar to eachother then say the norse myths and judaism. For obvious reasons.

In any case, this doesn't at all answer my question of "why would the bible be any different?"
So it seems like you're actively dodging actually addressing the point made.

Elves is not a popular belief.

So?
Do you think that popularity of a belief says something about its accuracy?
If yes, you realize that that is a logical fallacy, right? It's called argumentum ad populum.

Argumentum ad populum - Wikipedia

an argumentum ad populum (Latin for "appeal to the people"[1]) is a fallacious argument that concludes that a proposition must be true because many or most people believe it

 

[blü 2]

There seems to be evidence on both sides, for and against the Flood and Creation stories, but I promise you God is able to instruct us.

Mon cher ami! It seems a while since we were in conversation.

Unfortunately for all the argument in favor of the Genesis flood, neither it nor anything resembling it happened in reality. As I've mentioned in the past to you, and again above, IF the Genesis Flood had happened in reality THEN there would inescapably HAVE to exist ─

a simultaneous genetic bottleneck in all land animals in the last (say) 10,000 years AND

a geological flood layer all over all continents and islands and the ocean floor AND

one billion cubic miles of water over and above the water presently on the earth

but instead we have no such bottleneck, no such flood layer, no such water, hence no such flood.

But I hope you're well and that all things are good at your house.

 

[TagliatelliMonster]

Of course a non-existent person could not take corn onto the ark. The problem is for believers is why is corn or maize for the non-American posters, found only in the New World naturally? Corn was unknown in the Old World until after the discovery of the New World. There are not even any "preflood" versions of it preserved in any sediments. This poses quite the problem for believers since all sorts of vegetables and grains would have had to have been picked up from the New World, transferred to the Old World when no such abilities existed and then brought back again when once again, no such abilities existed. Corn (maize) potatoes, tomatoes, pepper plants (not black pepper), quinoa and others. Look at that, where plants grow refutes the flood myth too.

And hilariously, where plants grow and where species live, fits the evolutionary narrative PERFECTLY as the observed geographic distribution of fauna and flora makes perfect sense in light of an evolutionary history with shifting tectonic plates.

Evolution explains perfectly why you only find wild kangaroo's and koala's in australia and not in asia.
To explain those the geographic distribution of those 2 species in light of a literal biblical history, one can only turn - once again - to invoking even more god-magic.

 

[TagliatelliMonster]

This is explained as a psychological phenomenon. People will attribute good luck to an item or prayer to help a random experience seem to have a specific cause that is about them.

Yep.

Textbook confirmation bias.

 

[TagliatelliMonster]

third if you think Covid has been sent by angels at God's command then surely you'll agree that God is one sick puppy.

Not to mention incompetent.

The mortality rate isn't that high and within a year, humans developed a vaccine.
I'ld expect more from an all-powerful god who creates a virus as a punishment for whatever.

Humans would actually do a much better job at engineering a virus. It would be a lot more effective and mortality rates would be a lot higher.

Then again.... if we read the story of this god in the bible, we see that incompetence all throughout history. The bible reads like a collection of failure after failure after failure after failure. To the point where this system is so messed up that he had to invent a loophole where he incarnated as a human to have himself sacrificed to himself so that he could save us from himself to fix this problem of "doomed by default" for which he himself is even ultimately responsible for.

And lo and behold, he fails at that too.

 

[Subduction Zone]

Not to mention incompetent.

The mortality rate isn't that high and within a year, humans developed a vaccine.
I'ld expect more from an all-powerful god who creates a virus as a punishment for whatever.

Humans would actually do a much better job at engineering a virus. It would be a lot more effective and mortality rates would be a lot higher.

Then again.... if we read the story of this god in the bible, we see that incompetence all throughout history. The bible reads like a collection of failure after failure after failure after failure. To the point where this system is so messed up that he had to invent a loophole where he incarnated as a human to have himself sacrificed to himself so that he could save us from himself to fix this problem of "doomed by default" for which he himself is even ultimately responsible for.

And lo and behold, he fails at that too.

It is rather amazing that literalists cannot see that they are claiming that God is incompetent and evil.