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A case of demonic possession

Boyd

Member
The exorcisms of Latoya Ammons

A Real-Life Demon Possession Is Being Reported in Indiana

This case happened about 45 miles from where I live. I don't believe in god, miracles, and demon possession, but this case is just odd. All there is as far as evidence is anecdotal, but there's enough of it to give one pause. Personally, I don't believe it, but I wanted to see what everyone else thought about it.
I have thought the idea of demonic possession is quite interesting. I don't accept that it happens. When I was younger, I used to be an "exorcist" for a Pentecostal church. I was told all sorts of stories, and I did see some weird things; however, it can be explained.

The first large clue in this is that the family already seemed to have a belief in demons, and that one could be possessed. I base this on them even looking to get an exorcism, and knowing where to go.

It is really easy to make people believe they are possessed, and just that belief will make them do crazy things. During the exorcisms that I presided over, the individual often started talking in a deeper voice, they would blurt our jibberish which often sounded like some dead language (there would be Greek or Aramaic words here and there, but only words that they would have heard in sermon, or during the interviews before the exorcism), they would have creepy looks on their faces, etc. It's always the same though, and exactly what one would expect. It really is an agreement between the exorcist, and the person being exorcised, that each individual will play their part.

In this particular incidence, there is nothing real original. It is a family who is financially unstable. They have a child with an imaginary friend (which is normal. And it is also normal for a child to try to get a reaction out of their parents by doing things that they see get some sort of reaction, good or bad). They call in "professionals" who told them what they wanted to hear; there were demons there. I used to do that all of the time, and that is how they make their money.

Others thinking they saw things, such as the nurse, really isn't surprising either. Our memories are faulty. They are easily influenced, and they tend to exaggerate. I used to perform a levitation trick in which I would maybe get 2 inches off the ground. I had people claim that I rose a foot or even higher off the ground. That is what they remembered, and it worked for me.

The nurse probably already accepted that "strange" things were occurring, and most likely believed in demons. Its not hard to make someone like that think they saw something much more spectacular than they did. Walking up a wall probably was more like walking up stairs backwards, or even running up a wall, and the ideas being jumbled after being talked about.

Today though, if such things are happening, there is no reason why someone couldn't grab a quick picture or even video. Nearly everyone has a camera on their phones, so there really is no excuse for something like that.
 

Quirkybird

Member
It strikes me some people just love to immediately think something strange is 'supernatural' ! I have had the weirdest experiences throughout my life. My childhood home apparently hosted a 'poltergeist', and our previous property an old Welsh farmhouse (1612) produced the strangest of activity for 11 of the 15 years we lived there. It was not reputed to be 'haunted' before we moved there in 1997. In spite of it all, witnessed by many others as well as ourselves, my husband, who has a scientific background, and I both think there was a natural explanation for the phenomena.
 
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Nakosis

Non-Binary Physicalist
Premium Member
Well if I personally saw someone walking up the wall backwards, I'd seriously have to reevaluate my view of how the universe works.
 

Iti oj

Global warming is real and we need to act
Premium Member
Well if I personally saw someone walking up the wall backwards, I'd seriously have to reevaluate my view of how the universe works.
Well as long is it was independently verified some how at least. I have experienced enough to know seeing is not believing.
 

rusra02

Well-Known Member
Premium Member
The exorcisms of Latoya Ammons

A Real-Life Demon Possession Is Being Reported in Indiana

This case happened about 45 miles from where I live. I don't believe in god, miracles, and demon possession, but this case is just odd. All there is as far as evidence is anecdotal, but there's enough of it to give one pause. Personally, I don't believe it, but I wanted to see what everyone else thought about it.

The Bible reports cases of demon possession and the dire harm it causes to those victimized by wicked spirits. Here is one example, witnessed by many persons: (Luke 8:27-33)
 

Kilgore Trout

Misanthropic Humanist
I think if someone is the type of person who has a propensity to believe in these things, then any evidence will suffice. And, if someone is the type of person who needs reasonable and believable evidence before believing things, then these cases always fall far short of convincing.
 

Parsimony

Well-Known Member
I would be interested in seeing if there was any evidence of carbon monoxide, infrasound or strong electromagnetic fields in the house.
 

Me Myself

Back to my username
I very well believe bad spirits can do severe stuff to those sufficiently weak on a given moment, or if the spirit is sufficiently strong.
 

averageJOE

zombie
So with all those people who claimed to witness this not a single one ever showed up with a video camera? Not even pull out their smart phone? And the only thing we have to go with are their word and one photograph of the house with a "figure" in the window?

Weak.
 

Nakosis

Non-Binary Physicalist
Premium Member
So with all those people who claimed to witness this not a single one ever showed up with a video camera? Not even pull out their smart phone? And the only thing we have to go with are their word and one photograph of the house with a "figure" in the window?

Weak.
Lots of videos of demon possessions on youtube...

Now do you believe?
What you see on a video can obviously be faked. So what's it take to make a believer?
 

George-ananda

Advaita Vedanta, Theosophy, Spiritualism
Premium Member
I believe such things happen. The quantity and quality of all the paranormal things I've heard has made me a believer. If one can get past the logical dislike of living in a possibly mysterious universe, they will find these things do make sense with an expansion of our physical plane reality to include super-physical planes. And there are even those who tell us about what goes on in these planes with considerable detail. The evidence is there, but for many, it will never exceed their resistance.

I think many have an irrational resistance to the paranormal. A rational skeptical resistance is fine of course, but I often see it go beyond rational to an irrational vehemence against anything that smacks of God, religion or the paranormal.
 

George-ananda

Advaita Vedanta, Theosophy, Spiritualism
Premium Member
So with all those people who claimed to witness this not a single one ever showed up with a video camera? Not even pull out their smart phone? And the only thing we have to go with are their word and one photograph of the house with a "figure" in the window?

Weak.

Seriously. With all the capabilities of the latest video technology to create fakes, what skeptic will be swayed to the paranormal by video evidence (and there is a lot out there unaccepted by skeptics).

As for the untold number of direct witnesses of paranormal things (such as the people in the OP article) they must be either lying, tricked or misperceiving natural phenomena 100% of the time for the materialist position to hold. If you really feel that's true, go with it.....but expect me to respectfully disagree.
 

thau

Well-Known Member
The first large clue in this is that the family already seemed to have a belief in demons, and that one could be possessed.
So do all legitimate teachers of the Christian faith and the Bible. And the evidence is pretty widespread, IMO.

During the exorcisms that I presided over... It really is an agreement between the exorcist, and the person being exorcised, that each individual will play their part.
Then maybe we should set your personal experiences aside because the documentation of hundreds of others in the Catholic Church alone do not resemble whatever it is you were part of. Disturbed mothers do not come frantically begging a priest to look after their sadistic child and then make a secret agreement “let’s ride this ruse for all we can.”

They call in "professionals" who told them what they wanted to hear; there were demons there. I used to do that all of the time, and that is how they make their money… Others thinking they saw things, such as the nurse, really isn't surprising either. Our memories are faulty.
I’m sorry, but I find your explanations considerably more faulty than the professionals in this story. Is it not more a matter of “what you want to believe” than what the professionals want to believe?

[Excerpts from the article in the BBC and also from the lengthier account in the Indianapolis Star article.]

Ammons, who swears by her story, has been unusually open. While she spoke on condition her children not be interviewed or named, she signed releases letting The Star review medical, psychological and official records that are not open to the public — and not always flattering.

Furthermore, the family's story is made only more bizarre because it involves a DCS intervention, a string of psychological evaluations, a police investigation and, ultimately, a series of exorcisms.

It's a tale, they say, that started with flies. In November 2011, Ammons' family moved into a rental house on Carolina Street in Gary, a quiet lane lined with small one-story homes. Big black flies suddenly swarmed their screened-in porch in December, despite the winter chill. "This is not normal," Ammons' mother, Rosa Campbell, remembers thinking. "We killed them and killed them and killed them, but they kept coming back."

[The grandmother] Campbell said she ran into her bedroom, where her then-12-year-old granddaughter and a friend were staying. The girl’s mother, Ammons, and Campbell both said the 12-year-old was levitating above the bed, unconscious. They were terrified. They began praying with the others in the room and the granddaughter eventually descended onto the bed. The girl woke up with no memory of what happened, Campbell said. The others who were staying with the granddaughter never returned to the home.

The family said the kids' eyes bulged, evil smiles crossed their faces, and their voices deepened every time it happened,

Dr, Geoffrey Onyeukwu on April 19, 2012 told The Star it was "bizarre.""Twenty years, and I've never heard anything like that in my life," he said. "I was scared myself when I walked into the room."

What happened next was detailed in a DCS report of a family case manager's interviews with medical staff. Chaos erupted. Medical staff said the youngest boy was "lifted and thrown into the wall with nobody touching him," according to a DCS report.

Someone from the doctor's office called 911. Onyeukwu said seven or eight police officers and multiple ambulances showed up. The boys woke up in the hospital. The older boy, then 9, acted rationally, but the youngest screamed and thrashed, Campbell said. She said it took five men to hold him down.

Walking up a wall probably was more like walking up stairs backwards, or even running up a wall, and the ideas being jumbled after being talked about.
Right.

--- continuing excerpts ---

DCS family case manager Valerie Washington was asked to handle the initial investigation. She gave the following account to police and in her intake officer's report:

Hospital personnel examined Ammons and her children and found them to be healthy and free of marks or bruises. A hospital psychiatrist evaluated Ammons and determined she was of "sound mind." Washington interviewed the family in the hospital. While she spoke with Ammons, the 7-year-old boy started growling with his teeth showing. His eyes rolled back in his head.The boy locked his hands around his older brother's throat and refused to let go until adults pried his hands open.

Later that evening, Washington and registered nurse Willie Lee Walker brought the two boys into a small exam room for an interview. The grandmother Campbell joined them. What happened next would rattle the witnesses, and to some it would offer not only evidence but proof of paranormal activity. According to Washington's original DCS report — an account corroborated by Walker, the nurse — the 9-year-old had a "weird grin" and walked backward up a wall to the ceiling. He then flipped over Campbell, landing on his feet. He never let go of his grandmother's hand. "He walked up the wall, flipped over her and stood there," Walker told The Star. "There's no way he could've done that."

Later, police asked Washington whether the boy had run up the wall, as though performing an acrobatic trick. No, Washington told them. She said the boy "glided backward on the floor, wall and ceiling," according to a police report… She told police she was scared when it happened and ran out of the room.

====================

To sum: I do not think many want to believe this story because it is so disturbing. That I can understand.

http://www.indystar.com/story/news/2014/01/25/the-disposession-of-latoya-ammons/4892553/
 

dyanaprajna2011

Dharmapala
While I normally don't accept anecdotal evidence of anything supernatural, the shear amount of it in this case is what gets to me. I'm not the type to automatically accept supernatural events without exhausting all rational measures first, and I certainly don't believe in demon possession. But I posted this OP because, while I don't believe it's something demonic, as normally understood, but I do think something is going on. I don't think a case such as this can be easily tossed aside, trust me, I've tried.
 

George-ananda

Advaita Vedanta, Theosophy, Spiritualism
Premium Member
While I normally don't accept anecdotal evidence of anything supernatural, the shear amount of it in this case is what gets to me. I'm not the type to automatically accept supernatural events without exhausting all rational measures first, and I certainly don't believe in demon possession. But I posted this OP because, while I don't believe it's something demonic, as normally understood, but I do think something is going on. I don't think a case such as this can be easily tossed aside, trust me, I've tried.

Do you believe conscious entities can exist without physical bodies?

Do you think if you were to read a dozen or so seemingly strong cases (such as the OP) suggesting the paranormal, could your worldview ever change? Or is the logical appeal of physicalism just too strong?
 
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