A challenge for Christians

[Autodidact]

A challenge for any Christians who are game:

Please define "Christian."

Using your definition, which of the following people are Christian?

Rev. Fred Phelps
Rev. Troy Perry
Bishop Carlton Pearson
Pope Innocent III
Gandhi
Mit Romney
Jimmy Carter
Rev. Ted Haggard
Kent Hovind
Hitler
John Shelby Spong
Rev. Jerry Falwell
James Kopp

Just ask me if you don't know who any of them are.

Thanks.

 

[Bishka]

A challenge for any Christians who are game:

Please define "Christian."

Using your definition, which of the following people are Christian?

Rev. Fred Phelps
Rev. Troy Perry
Bishop Carlton Pearson
Pope Innocent III
Gandhi
Mit Romney
Jimmy Carter
Rev. Ted Haggard
Kent Hovind
Hitler
John Shelby Spong
Rev. Jerry Falwell
James Kopp

Just ask me if you don't know who any of them are.

Thanks.

A Christian is one who believes in Jesus Christ as their Lord and Saviour. If all these people did believe in Jesus Christ as their Lord and Saviour, then yes, I consider them Christians. That does not mean they were good Christians. Just as there are bad people, there are bad Christians -- the same as in every faith, race, ethnic group, sex, group, etc., out there. There are bad and good people, it's not to say that they are not one of their particular group.

For example, let's say a white person kills someone else, are they still white? Of course, they are just a bad white person. Does that make sense?

 

[Mister Emu]

I define Christian as one who relies on Christ for their salvation... Unfortunately I am not privy to the inner workings of any man's heart, so I can't say whether any specific man is/was, or not, a Christian...

 

[ChristineES]

The word "Christian" means follower of Christ, so that is what a Christian is. As to who is really a Christian, only God and the person knows he is a true Christian or just playing lip service to the rest of us.

 

[may]

i agree a christian is a follower of christ , and the Almighty Jehovah said to listen to Jesus , so christians should listen to Jesus words and do what Jesus said. the main theme of Jesus teaching was about the kingdom of God , and that was Jesus focus , the early christian congregation was established for christians to be in unity and thought , and to do the work that Jesus taught them . matthew 28;19-20
(Acts 14:21) And after declaring the good news to that city and making quite a few disciples, they returned to Lys´tra and to I·co´ni·um and to Antioch,

 

[wizanda]

I thought the main thing Yeshua spoke about is Heaven and how killing prophets for sacrifices, will cause God's wrath to come....the same as the Bible does?....

Do you lot know, if you follow Pharisees you will get nothing?

 

[Autodidact]

A Christian is one who believes in Jesus Christ as their Lord and Saviour. If all these people did believe in Jesus Christ as their Lord and Saviour, then yes, I consider them Christians. That does not mean they were good Christians. Just as there are bad people, there are bad Christians -- the same as in every faith, race, ethnic group, sex, group, etc., out there. There are bad and good people, it's not to say that they are not one of their particular group.

For example, let's say a white person kills someone else, are they still white? Of course, they are just a bad white person. Does that make sense?

Thanks, and I agree. This comes up for us atheists when we point out Christian atrocities, such as say the wholesale slaughter of the Jews in Medieval Europe, and the response is that those are not "real Christians." I agree with you that like anyone else, Christians can be good or bad.

Your definition seems quite right to me. However, one problem is knowing what someone believes, since that is internal. Are you comfortable with going with what someone says they believe?

 

[Autodidact]

For everyone willing to play, here's what I think you need to know about each, the relevant characteristic as to why I put him on the list:

Rev. Fred Phelps--of Westboro Baptist Fame. God Hates ****. Baptist minister.
Rev. Troy Perry Founder of the Metropolitan Community Church, a mainstream Protestant Church with a special outreach to the gay community.
Bishop Carlton Pearson Founder of New Dimensions. He is a Universalist, meaning that he believes that Jesus' sacrifice saved everyone, no exceptions. That is, no Hell.
Pope Innocent III A prominent and powerful medieval Pope who ordered the deaths of thousands of heretics, most of them Christian.
Gandhi I think you know.
Mit Romney point is he's Mormon.
Jimmy Carter I think you've heard of him.
Rev. Ted Haggard Former President of the National Association of Evangelicals, now disgraced due to the revelations of his drug use and secret homosexual prostitute.
Kent Hovind Prominent Young Earth Creationist, now incarcerated for income tax fraud.
Hitler Name should be familiar. Identified as Catholic and described himself as doing the lord's work.
John Shelby Spong Contemporary liberal Christian theologian and retired Episcopalian Bishop. Among other things, writes that theism is not an accurate way to talk about God.
Rev. Jerry Falwell Famous conservative preacher, known for his right-wing, anti-gay, anti-feminist positions.
James Kopp Affiliated with anti-abortion group, "The Lambs of Christ," convicted of murdering abortion doctor Bernard Sleppian.

Ask me anything else you need to know.

 

[michel]

I define Christian as one who relies on Christ for their salvation... Unfortunately I am not privy to the inner workings of any man's heart, so I can't say whether any specific man is/was, or not, a Christian...

I agree. I would add that the Christian needs to love Christ, and his fellow creatures (all of them, animal, birds, anything that has life) - as we are all brothers and sisters of the same father.

 

[Booko]

Thanks, and I agree. This comes up for us atheists when we point out Christian atrocities, such as say the wholesale slaughter of the Jews in Medieval Europe, and the response is that those are not "real Christians." I agree with you that like anyone else, Christians can be good or bad.

Just as an historical aside, slaughtering Jews in Europe at that time was also a great way to eliminate your debts, since usury was banned by the Church at that time. The Templars were slaghtered for the same reason.

I'm not saying religious ideas weren't a key reason for the slaughter, but when it comes to history, just blaming a religion for some horrible act is often a simplistic and unfruitful historical view of events.

My religion (Baha'i) has a particular view about religions and how and why they go wrong (it seems to be nearly inevitable, really), but that would be off topic here. If you're inclined to explore the idea, another thread would be the thing, though personally I would suggest discussing it as absent "religion" as possible, and more as a possible tool for understanding human history about religion.

 

[Autodidact]

I agree. I would add that the Christian needs to love Christ, and his fellow creatures (all of them, animal, birds, anything that has life) - as we are all brothers and sisters of the same father.

Would you please try your definition out on my list? Thank you.

 

[Reverend Rick]

Very interesting thread Autodidact. Some of the best people you list are not Christians.

 

[ChristineES]

Any follower of Christ will love Him. Would anyone follow someone without loving him or her? That is a given, at least for me.

 

[Autodidact]

Very interesting thread Autodidact. Some of the best people you list are not Christians.

What is your definition? And which ones?

 

[Autodidact]

Any follower of Christ will love Him. Would anyone follow someone without loving him or her? That is a given, at least for me.

The list please.

 

[ChristineES]

The list please.

I am sorry I am not answering the list. I have already said that only God and the person knows who the true Christian is. I would rather earn your wrath by not answering than earn any anger God may have for my being overly arrogant by answering wrongly.

 

[Lindsey-Loo]

A Christian is one who follows Christ and loves God with all their heart. It's that simple. Any of the people on your little list who follow/ed Christ and love/d God with all their hearts are Christians. Connect the dots.

 

[ChristineES]

I was very angry with my last post. The whole problem I have with answering is that I know none of those people listed personally and only through the media. As we know, the media is able to distort anything and even if it is not distorted, it could be out of context. If I could talk to each of them face to face then I might be able to answer.
I regret even answering the thread since I did not realize you needed me to answer your list.

 

[Autodidact]

A Christian is one who follows Christ and loves God with all their heart. It's that simple. Any of the people on your little list who follow/ed Christ and love/d God with all their hearts are Christians. Connect the dots.

They're your dots. Would you be so kind as to connect them? Thank you.

 

[Autodidact]

I am sorry I am not answering the list. I have already said that only God and the person knows who the true Christian is. I would rather earn your wrath by not answering than earn any anger God may have for my being overly arrogant by answering wrongly.

So you would never use the word "Christian" to describe someone or say that someone was not a Christian? "Christian" is not a word we can use to describe people? What word should we use for members of the Christian religion?