-
Welcome to Religious Forums, a friendly forum to discuss all religions in a friendly surrounding.
Your voice is missing! You will need to register to get access to the following site features:- Reply to discussions and create your own threads.
- Our modern chat room. No add-ons or extensions required, just login and start chatting!
- Access to private conversations with other members.
We hope to see you as a part of our community soon!
A Challenge To All Creationists
- Thread starter Skwim
- Start date
The Neo Nerd
Well-Known Member
PeteC-UK
Active Member
Hi Folks...
In ALL known phenomena anywhere in all existance - there are really only TWO essential elements - and it is the RELATIONSHIP between these two elements that bring about the ENTIRE creation - all EXISTANCE literally comes about BECAUSE of these two elements interacting - and the real tricky part - is to realise that actually they are NOT even seperate at all but just seems to be that way
The two elements - two aspects that are present throughout all existance everywhere without exception - are the forces we call ENERGY - and MIND... No matter what phenomena of creation, what aspect of existance we look at - they will ALWAYS WITHOUT EXCEPTION, contain and require BOTH of these aspects....
EVERYTHING in the material existance is made up of ENERGY - and without exception, it requires a MIND to realise that very existance
Follow the logic - if we take away MIND from the creation, then all existance has STOPPED - because understand clearly it is MIND itself that REALISES the existance - it is mind itself that DEFINES the existance - it is mind itself that EXPERIENCES the existance - isnt it..?...
If MIND vanished - then there would be no PRESENCE to define anything - and so there would be nothing to KNOW the existance at all and so there could not actually BE any existance WITHOUT a mind to HAVE that EXPERIENCE...Understand then - logically -0we absolutely NEED the presence of MIND to exist BEFORE any material creation at all - for it is MIND that will DEFINE what the creation is to BE and it is MIND that will EXPERIENCE exactly what that creation is..
And the other aspect - ENERGY - literally BUILDS THE MATERIAL CREATION, powers it and makes it dynamic....But - WHAT IS ENERGY ..???......Again we see if we take this "force" away then simply there is no creation possible as it ALL comes from energy - without the base force nothing else would form and so no material worlds would be created at all...But - WHAT IS ENERGY..???....
Actually - it DOES NOT EXIST !!! Think about it - let it sink in deep......EVERYTHING is literally made up of energy - but energy itself is FULLY ABSTRACT - it it is a CONCEPT - an IMAGINERY force - purely the domain of MIND
And so we see there is actually NO SEPERATION between the MIND that realises existance and the ENERGY that IS the existance.. The only difference is the DEFINITION that the MIND brings - take away that mind and there is no definition at all - energy remains inert as it is a product OF mind inseperable one from the other..The creation and all existance is then quite literally IMAGINED into reality for lack of better terms....The Mind and the energy that powers the material universes are inseperable - fully intrinsically linked - this is KARMA - and even our modern science is begining to verify this Mind / Energy link phenomena... They call it an "observer paradox" for now as they dont quite grasp what is happening - but clearly see the actual PRESENCE of an "observer" can and does, literally ALTER the outcome of experiments...They realise in a basic sense that EXPECTATION and PRE CONCEPTIONS that they themselves already hold, are affecting their experiments directly.....In other words Folks - they begin to realise that the mere Presence of their OWN MIND - can and does affect the manifestation of SHARED REALITY
I tell you truth when I say this is because there is indeed a supreme and Primal Sovereign MIND - a Divine Mind as we may term it - that is the direct cause of all this material existance we are a part of....The entire pool of this imaginery "energy" is the entirety of the Mind and therefore there is nothing in existance that this Divine mind is not fully aware of...The mind and energy of Creation are INSEPERABLE as science is beginning to clearly realise - and we see clearly the MIND itself must indeed pre exist all material creation for the mind itself IS the energy that IS the material creation
It doesnt really matter what phenomena of existance we look at - strip it all away we are left with ONLY two elements of mind and energy - these are not actually seperate at all as energy DOES NOT EXIST - not until a mind IMAGINES it to be so - and so there is no actual seperation possible at all - energy is a purely abstract concept that REQUIRES a mind to be realised - take away the Mind and there is no REALISATION possible, no EXPERIENCE and so there can be literally NO EXISTANCE... As we see - the Mind is crucial vital and integral to literally EVERYTHING - and that Mind is vitally required to be Present BEFORE anything else ever happens - all Creation flows from the fully ABSTRACT realms of "none reality" to become the solid seeming worlds we are used to and that our individual Mind now inhabits - yet it is ALL a part of that greater whole, perspective OF this One Divine mind and the "force of energy" that it is, that is the Cause of All Cretaion
In ALL known phenomena anywhere in all existance - there are really only TWO essential elements - and it is the RELATIONSHIP between these two elements that bring about the ENTIRE creation - all EXISTANCE literally comes about BECAUSE of these two elements interacting - and the real tricky part - is to realise that actually they are NOT even seperate at all but just seems to be that way
The two elements - two aspects that are present throughout all existance everywhere without exception - are the forces we call ENERGY - and MIND... No matter what phenomena of creation, what aspect of existance we look at - they will ALWAYS WITHOUT EXCEPTION, contain and require BOTH of these aspects....
EVERYTHING in the material existance is made up of ENERGY - and without exception, it requires a MIND to realise that very existance
Follow the logic - if we take away MIND from the creation, then all existance has STOPPED - because understand clearly it is MIND itself that REALISES the existance - it is mind itself that DEFINES the existance - it is mind itself that EXPERIENCES the existance - isnt it..?...
If MIND vanished - then there would be no PRESENCE to define anything - and so there would be nothing to KNOW the existance at all and so there could not actually BE any existance WITHOUT a mind to HAVE that EXPERIENCE...Understand then - logically -0we absolutely NEED the presence of MIND to exist BEFORE any material creation at all - for it is MIND that will DEFINE what the creation is to BE and it is MIND that will EXPERIENCE exactly what that creation is..
And the other aspect - ENERGY - literally BUILDS THE MATERIAL CREATION, powers it and makes it dynamic....But - WHAT IS ENERGY ..???......Again we see if we take this "force" away then simply there is no creation possible as it ALL comes from energy - without the base force nothing else would form and so no material worlds would be created at all...But - WHAT IS ENERGY..???....
Actually - it DOES NOT EXIST !!! Think about it - let it sink in deep......EVERYTHING is literally made up of energy - but energy itself is FULLY ABSTRACT - it it is a CONCEPT - an IMAGINERY force - purely the domain of MIND
And so we see there is actually NO SEPERATION between the MIND that realises existance and the ENERGY that IS the existance.. The only difference is the DEFINITION that the MIND brings - take away that mind and there is no definition at all - energy remains inert as it is a product OF mind inseperable one from the other..The creation and all existance is then quite literally IMAGINED into reality for lack of better terms....The Mind and the energy that powers the material universes are inseperable - fully intrinsically linked - this is KARMA - and even our modern science is begining to verify this Mind / Energy link phenomena... They call it an "observer paradox" for now as they dont quite grasp what is happening - but clearly see the actual PRESENCE of an "observer" can and does, literally ALTER the outcome of experiments...They realise in a basic sense that EXPECTATION and PRE CONCEPTIONS that they themselves already hold, are affecting their experiments directly.....In other words Folks - they begin to realise that the mere Presence of their OWN MIND - can and does affect the manifestation of SHARED REALITY
I tell you truth when I say this is because there is indeed a supreme and Primal Sovereign MIND - a Divine Mind as we may term it - that is the direct cause of all this material existance we are a part of....The entire pool of this imaginery "energy" is the entirety of the Mind and therefore there is nothing in existance that this Divine mind is not fully aware of...The mind and energy of Creation are INSEPERABLE as science is beginning to clearly realise - and we see clearly the MIND itself must indeed pre exist all material creation for the mind itself IS the energy that IS the material creation
It doesnt really matter what phenomena of existance we look at - strip it all away we are left with ONLY two elements of mind and energy - these are not actually seperate at all as energy DOES NOT EXIST - not until a mind IMAGINES it to be so - and so there is no actual seperation possible at all - energy is a purely abstract concept that REQUIRES a mind to be realised - take away the Mind and there is no REALISATION possible, no EXPERIENCE and so there can be literally NO EXISTANCE... As we see - the Mind is crucial vital and integral to literally EVERYTHING - and that Mind is vitally required to be Present BEFORE anything else ever happens - all Creation flows from the fully ABSTRACT realms of "none reality" to become the solid seeming worlds we are used to and that our individual Mind now inhabits - yet it is ALL a part of that greater whole, perspective OF this One Divine mind and the "force of energy" that it is, that is the Cause of All Cretaion
Milton Platt
Well-Known Member
Hi Folks...
In ALL known phenomena anywhere in all existance - there are really only TWO essential elements - and it is the RELATIONSHIP between these two elements that bring about the ENTIRE creation - all EXISTANCE literally comes about BECAUSE of these two elements interacting - and the real tricky part - is to realise that actually they are NOT even seperate at all but just seems to be that way
The two elements - two aspects that are present throughout all existance everywhere without exception - are the forces we call ENERGY - and MIND... No matter what phenomena of creation, what aspect of existance we look at - they will ALWAYS WITHOUT EXCEPTION, contain and require BOTH of these aspects....
EVERYTHING in the material existance is made up of ENERGY - and without exception, it requires a MIND to realise that very existance
Follow the logic - if we take away MIND from the creation, then all existance has STOPPED - because understand clearly it is MIND itself that REALISES the existance - it is mind itself that DEFINES the existance - it is mind itself that EXPERIENCES the existance - isnt it..?...
If MIND vanished - then there would be no PRESENCE to define anything - and so there would be nothing to KNOW the existance at all and so there could not actually BE any existance WITHOUT a mind to HAVE that EXPERIENCE...Understand then - logically -0we absolutely NEED the presence of MIND to exist BEFORE any material creation at all - for it is MIND that will DEFINE what the creation is to BE and it is MIND that will EXPERIENCE exactly what that creation is..
And the other aspect - ENERGY - literally BUILDS THE MATERIAL CREATION, powers it and makes it dynamic....But - WHAT IS ENERGY ..???......Again we see if we take this "force" away then simply there is no creation possible as it ALL comes from energy - without the base force nothing else would form and so no material worlds would be created at all...But - WHAT IS ENERGY..???....
Actually - it DOES NOT EXIST !!! Think about it - let it sink in deep......EVERYTHING is literally made up of energy - but energy itself is FULLY ABSTRACT - it it is a CONCEPT - an IMAGINERY force - purely the domain of MIND
And so we see there is actually NO SEPERATION between the MIND that realises existance and the ENERGY that IS the existance.. The only difference is the DEFINITION that the MIND brings - take away that mind and there is no definition at all - energy remains inert as it is a product OF mind inseperable one from the other..The creation and all existance is then quite literally IMAGINED into reality for lack of better terms....The Mind and the energy that powers the material universes are inseperable - fully intrinsically linked - this is KARMA - and even our modern science is begining to verify this Mind / Energy link phenomena... They call it an "observer paradox" for now as they dont quite grasp what is happening - but clearly see the actual PRESENCE of an "observer" can and does, literally ALTER the outcome of experiments...They realise in a basic sense that EXPECTATION and PRE CONCEPTIONS that they themselves already hold, are affecting their experiments directly.....In other words Folks - they begin to realise that the mere Presence of their OWN MIND - can and does affect the manifestation of SHARED REALITY
I tell you truth when I say this is because there is indeed a supreme and Primal Sovereign MIND - a Divine Mind as we may term it - that is the direct cause of all this material existance we are a part of....The entire pool of this imaginery "energy" is the entirety of the Mind and therefore there is nothing in existance that this Divine mind is not fully aware of...The mind and energy of Creation are INSEPERABLE as science is beginning to clearly realise - and we see clearly the MIND itself must indeed pre exist all material creation for the mind itself IS the energy that IS the material creation
It doesnt really matter what phenomena of existance we look at - strip it all away we are left with ONLY two elements of mind and energy - these are not actually seperate at all as energy DOES NOT EXIST - not until a mind IMAGINES it to be so - and so there is no actual seperation possible at all - energy is a purely abstract concept that REQUIRES a mind to be realised - take away the Mind and there is no REALISATION possible, no EXPERIENCE and so there can be literally NO EXISTANCE... As we see - the Mind is crucial vital and integral to literally EVERYTHING - and that Mind is vitally required to be Present BEFORE anything else ever happens - all Creation flows from the fully ABSTRACT realms of "none reality" to become the solid seeming worlds we are used to and that our individual Mind now inhabits - yet it is ALL a part of that greater whole, perspective OF this One Divine mind and the "force of energy" that it is, that is the Cause of All Cretaion
Okay, then......
when you get any evidence to actually support your ramblings, please present it for the rest of us.
Milton Platt
Well-Known Member
That's all you got??? He was asking for evidence.
We are here and we didn't do it, couldn't do it and don't know how to do it. Someone else must a done it. Else we're just a whole lot dummer than nothing..
MAKE A CONVINCING CASE* FOR CREATIONISM WITHOUT REFERENCING EVOLUTION.
* As in, convince the non-creationist.
That's all
.
Skwim
Veteran Member
PeteC-UK
Active Member
Hi Folks...
Milton; The "evidence" is indeed SELF EVIDENT lol....Just pay attenti to the world out there and pay attention to your own SELF and it will become obvious
In ALL phenomena ANYWHERE - there are ONLY two elements - energy that is now in some kind of "pattern" that we call a phenomena in the solid world - and there is a MIND that REALISES what that energy is being - strip away all the material layers to the created worlds - solid becomes molecular becomes atomic becomes sub atomic and then CEASES TO EXIST in any PHYSICAL way at all and becomes purely an ABSTRACT FORCE with no material componant at all..Energy does NOT exist - it is an IMAGINERY CONCEPT - prove me wrong if you can....
And the ONLY way possible to realise ANY of that (any phenomena ) at all is to have a PRESENCE OF MIND - for it IS mind that is the actual FACULTY that allows COMPREHENSION of the existance - yes..?? - and if you took that mind away from the universe then the universe COULD NOT EXIST as understand it IS the mind that DEFINED the existance, yes..??....
So remove the mind element - and tell me now if you can - WHO is there to experience this existance..??...WHAT is there that KNOWS it exists..??....NOTHING - for mind is absent and so there is NO EXISTANCE REALISED AT ALL.....Existance itself IS THE DOMAIN OF MIND and ONLY mind - you simply can not know or comprehend ANY existance WITHOUT that MIND - can you..??..
So - you may call it rambling - but it is accurate and universal nonetheless - without exception there is ALWAYS this energy of creation and the MIND that recognises that existance..They ARE inseperable - without the MIND there is only POSSIBILITY - the mind quite literally DEFINES the reality and it is ALL a PERSPECTIVE OF SELF that determines the reality you directly expereince...Of course - it becomes easy to understand this once we have actually stepped outside the body a few times and realised directly that we are indeed the Mind and NOT the physical body - once you have directly experienced the Self as NOTHING BUT ENERGY - purely abstract formless Conscious Awareness - then and only then I guess can you truly appreciate this truth - Gnosis is always the best guide
Milton; The "evidence" is indeed SELF EVIDENT lol....Just pay attenti to the world out there and pay attention to your own SELF and it will become obvious
In ALL phenomena ANYWHERE - there are ONLY two elements - energy that is now in some kind of "pattern" that we call a phenomena in the solid world - and there is a MIND that REALISES what that energy is being - strip away all the material layers to the created worlds - solid becomes molecular becomes atomic becomes sub atomic and then CEASES TO EXIST in any PHYSICAL way at all and becomes purely an ABSTRACT FORCE with no material componant at all..Energy does NOT exist - it is an IMAGINERY CONCEPT - prove me wrong if you can....
And the ONLY way possible to realise ANY of that (any phenomena ) at all is to have a PRESENCE OF MIND - for it IS mind that is the actual FACULTY that allows COMPREHENSION of the existance - yes..?? - and if you took that mind away from the universe then the universe COULD NOT EXIST as understand it IS the mind that DEFINED the existance, yes..??....
So remove the mind element - and tell me now if you can - WHO is there to experience this existance..??...WHAT is there that KNOWS it exists..??....NOTHING - for mind is absent and so there is NO EXISTANCE REALISED AT ALL.....Existance itself IS THE DOMAIN OF MIND and ONLY mind - you simply can not know or comprehend ANY existance WITHOUT that MIND - can you..??..
So - you may call it rambling - but it is accurate and universal nonetheless - without exception there is ALWAYS this energy of creation and the MIND that recognises that existance..They ARE inseperable - without the MIND there is only POSSIBILITY - the mind quite literally DEFINES the reality and it is ALL a PERSPECTIVE OF SELF that determines the reality you directly expereince...Of course - it becomes easy to understand this once we have actually stepped outside the body a few times and realised directly that we are indeed the Mind and NOT the physical body - once you have directly experienced the Self as NOTHING BUT ENERGY - purely abstract formless Conscious Awareness - then and only then I guess can you truly appreciate this truth - Gnosis is always the best guide
Last edited:
Every effect has a cause. Automobiles, houses, computers, and wooden spoons do not occur without an intelligent maker. How much less logical to assume DNA, molecular machines, and other brilliant "products" are not the result of a superior Intellect and a Designer and Fabricator brilliant beyond measure.
Rapha
Active Member
Your response is proof that a demon is suggesting what your mind thinks.
As demons exist, there is the proof that God created the Universe and the fallen angels possess people to scoff at the fact. Awesome.
Animore
Active Member
I realize this was two days ago, but I realize no one has made a response to your comment.
The fallacy in this is that we know who made these tools, and devices. We can go check the records for these vehicles, to see who made what, and when it happened. We have video footage of such creations. Do we have video footage for the creation of life and organic structures? Do we have records of a Creator God doing such things, besides a thousands-of-years old collection of scriptures, written by ancient scribes? Yet, we have fossil records, etc. to support evolution and the idea of abiogenesis.
Also, I think you're forgetting that proteins, DNA, etc. at its current state right now is the result of millions and millions of years of evolutionary process. It wasn't just a snapping of fingers and POOF! Complex organic material!
Skwim
Veteran Member
PeteC-UK
Active Member
Hi Folks..
Animore;
Hmm - fossilisation - does NOT even take that long to occur at all - and can occur in just a matter of mere DECADES...I forget the details just now - will check if you insist - but I remember a modern story of a scientific explorer, who lost a hat of all things and only like thirty or so years later, went back to the same place and found his hat again, only now it was fully fossilised, thus proving beyond doubt that millions of years need not even apply at all...
Second point - there is absolutely no way that life just spontaneously started all by its self and we have ALREADY PROVED THIS FALSE !!!
Look - science says and tries to convince us that the ingrediants for life just happened to randomly come together in some perfect ratio at the exact precise time and place - out of the worlds entire oceans -SOMEHOW - this rather unlikely event just happened spontanouesly they say and the tides just happened to wash it altogether in perfect harmony - et voila - life sprang up all by itself......
UTTERLY RIDICULOUS - as a little backward engineering of life soon proves beyond doubt !!
See - we can now take LIVING biological matter...And we can mash it down completely to its base constituents - literally strip it right down into a "molecular soup" - or even finer - to an atomic mix if we wish - just as they say it ALL BEGAN out inthe wilds...lol.....BUT LOOK - when WE do this - NOTHING HAPPENS - EVER !!! we can NOT get even the PERFECT INGREDIANTS to reassemble and form life again as they ONCE did....We can NOT take a dead animal for example - let it decompose (or force it to) back into that chemical soup, then wait and wait for it to SPONTANEOUSLY come back to life - for after all this is what they propose happens isnt it..??...All by itself, these chemicals they say spontaneously form DNA - except - NO THEY DO NOT - NOT EVER !!!
IT NEVER HAPPENS - NOT ONCE EVER !! even when we have EVERYTHING we need - all the ORIGINAL chemical componants of a ONCE LIVING animal - now dead - and NEVER comes back to life in this "sponatneous manner".....The whole theory is RUBBISH - for if it was true, then we too could produce life from nothing under these ideal lab conditions - and yet we can not - even once living matter can NOT be reanimated AT ALL, not EVER !!
And look - NO MATTER WHAT WE DO - no matter what manipulation we do to these chemicals -still - they NEVER form DNA or anything like it NATURALLY...To MAKE them form takes DIRECT EXTERNAL MANIPULATION - we need to first introduce another chemical to MAKE THEM BOND - like a chemical frameowrk or scaffold - then once the dna forms we need to REMOVE our scaffolding.. It requires INTENDED MANIPULATION - nothing random or spontneous here Folks - not at all...DNA is A DESIGNED molecule that despite all our knowledge and experimentation we can NOT get to occur naturally and as said once LIVING dna that is destroyed does NOT EVER reform itself into life again....The theory is ridiculous - a GUESS at what is happening - and that guess ignores lots and lots of contrary evidence.....
No matter what WE do - we find there is ALWAYS something missing - the elusive "spark of life" - the DIVINE spark if you will - is MISSING from OUR experiements, and we know of no substitute that can cause life to appear spontanously..There is clearly something EXTRA happening in that dna formation process, that our science has no clue about at all, yet...
Animore;
Hmm - fossilisation - does NOT even take that long to occur at all - and can occur in just a matter of mere DECADES...I forget the details just now - will check if you insist - but I remember a modern story of a scientific explorer, who lost a hat of all things and only like thirty or so years later, went back to the same place and found his hat again, only now it was fully fossilised, thus proving beyond doubt that millions of years need not even apply at all...
Second point - there is absolutely no way that life just spontaneously started all by its self and we have ALREADY PROVED THIS FALSE !!!
Look - science says and tries to convince us that the ingrediants for life just happened to randomly come together in some perfect ratio at the exact precise time and place - out of the worlds entire oceans -SOMEHOW - this rather unlikely event just happened spontanouesly they say and the tides just happened to wash it altogether in perfect harmony - et voila - life sprang up all by itself......
UTTERLY RIDICULOUS - as a little backward engineering of life soon proves beyond doubt !!
See - we can now take LIVING biological matter...And we can mash it down completely to its base constituents - literally strip it right down into a "molecular soup" - or even finer - to an atomic mix if we wish - just as they say it ALL BEGAN out inthe wilds...lol.....BUT LOOK - when WE do this - NOTHING HAPPENS - EVER !!! we can NOT get even the PERFECT INGREDIANTS to reassemble and form life again as they ONCE did....We can NOT take a dead animal for example - let it decompose (or force it to) back into that chemical soup, then wait and wait for it to SPONTANEOUSLY come back to life - for after all this is what they propose happens isnt it..??...All by itself, these chemicals they say spontaneously form DNA - except - NO THEY DO NOT - NOT EVER !!!
IT NEVER HAPPENS - NOT ONCE EVER !! even when we have EVERYTHING we need - all the ORIGINAL chemical componants of a ONCE LIVING animal - now dead - and NEVER comes back to life in this "sponatneous manner".....The whole theory is RUBBISH - for if it was true, then we too could produce life from nothing under these ideal lab conditions - and yet we can not - even once living matter can NOT be reanimated AT ALL, not EVER !!
And look - NO MATTER WHAT WE DO - no matter what manipulation we do to these chemicals -still - they NEVER form DNA or anything like it NATURALLY...To MAKE them form takes DIRECT EXTERNAL MANIPULATION - we need to first introduce another chemical to MAKE THEM BOND - like a chemical frameowrk or scaffold - then once the dna forms we need to REMOVE our scaffolding.. It requires INTENDED MANIPULATION - nothing random or spontneous here Folks - not at all...DNA is A DESIGNED molecule that despite all our knowledge and experimentation we can NOT get to occur naturally and as said once LIVING dna that is destroyed does NOT EVER reform itself into life again....The theory is ridiculous - a GUESS at what is happening - and that guess ignores lots and lots of contrary evidence.....
No matter what WE do - we find there is ALWAYS something missing - the elusive "spark of life" - the DIVINE spark if you will - is MISSING from OUR experiements, and we know of no substitute that can cause life to appear spontanously..There is clearly something EXTRA happening in that dna formation process, that our science has no clue about at all, yet...
Reggie Miller
Well-Known Member
.
MAKE A CONVINCING CASE* FOR CREATIONISM WITHOUT REFERENCING EVOLUTION.
* As in, convince the non-creationist.
That's all
.
Creationism requires faith since we were not there when it happened.
Evolution, i.e. abiogenesis also requires a great deal of faith considering that no one would have been there to have seen it.
The question is, Who do you put your faith in? God's witnesses or scientists who tell you there is no God who created?
Monk Of Reason
༼ つ ◕_◕ ༽つ
We said the same thing about rain, movement of the sun and stars, how plants grow, natural disasters, ect. All were wrong and all had one thing in common. A gap in knowledge wherein supernatural was added to balance the books on what we didn't know.
Our track record of simply making up answers to questions we can't answer is abysmal. In fact it is still hasn't worked yet.
Skwim
Veteran Member
Evolution IS NOT abiogenesis. Please bone up on evolution a bit before making such self-serving claims. Thank you.
"Often brought up in the origins debate is how evolution does not explain the origin of life. Let's get something abundantly clear: abiogenesis and evolution are two completely different things. The theory of evolution says absolutely nothing about the origin of life. It merely describes the processes which take place once life has started up."
source
source
.
Last edited:
Animore
Active Member
First point: Your point makes no sense. There are fossils of creatures that do not even exist (currently), and if they do, they do not exist in that part of the world.
Second point: I did not claim this. There are many theories about the origin of life, and it takes two seconds to look that up.
The rest of your points are nonsensical rambling. From what I can tell, you are saying that science is illogical because it claims that it is possible that complex life can be created from very unlikely circumstances. That's not necessarily true. Just because it has some low-stakes odds does not mean it cannot happen. What's illogical, in my eyes, are talking snakes and tress that create evil. Oh, and that the Earth is 6,000 years old.
PeteC-UK
Active Member
Hi Folks..
Animore; All Im saying here is that science is OFTEN WRONG about a great many things - and even though they ARE indeed often wrong, still, they will insist ALWAYS that they are "authority" that should be believed without question... This issue of fossils and dating is just one example that shows clearly how they manipulate truth to make it SEEM like "they know best", and like proper mugs, we just usually swallow it blindly without thinking...
When we DO stop and think though, we see that often times they are clearly mistaken - such as here - fossils - and their ridicluous theory soon debunked...First as said we have PROOF - literal "hard evidence" - that hat for one - though go check it out and youll soon find many many such examples that PROVE that fossilisation CAN happen in a very short time period indeed and DOES NOT NEED millions of years as science mistakenly "insists" - we have seen it happen in just a single human lifespan, 50 years was all it took for a hat to change to fossil - yet they carbon date the hat and the result said it is like SIX THOUSAND YEARS OLD - when clearly it is just FIFTY years old !!!
This shows us undeniably TWO things - first - the base ASSUMPTION from science that the process REQUIRES millions of years is PROVED FALSE...And second - the DATING and age of fossils is ALSO proved to be inaccurate as their tests gave them a definate FALSE conclusion that is undeniable - the hat is ONLY 50 years old but the test said it SHOULD be 6000 years old - HUGE discrepancey shows us the test is NOT RELIABLE and so the age and dating of fossils is UNRELIABLE also !!!
Do you even know HOW they date fossils Folks..??..It truly IS ridiculous - they take a strata of rock - they see what kind of fossils it contains - they then go look at other similar strata different area - and say because the rock is the same depth and kind, so the fossils within it MUST be the same age....RIDICULOUS as we see...And further, they then take a FOSSIL that they think they know the age of based on previous similar fossils - and so they then DATE THE ROCK ITSELF based ON the fossil...lol....Its like they just cross referance all the time fossil and rock - and yet they dont ACTUALLY KNOW any definate ages at all of either rock OR fossil...lol...They are just GUESSING Folks and again our modern artifact fossils PROVE their theory as wholly innacurate as their best guess turns out to be actually a huge HUGE discrepancy in actual real world time..
Literally they find a fossil and date it from the rock in which it is found - then they go elsewhere find a similar rock and say all the fossils there MUST be the same age...And visa versa - find a fossil they believe they have already aged correctly - then go find some other DIFFERENT ANIMALS in the SAME layers of rock, so they think they again MUST be the same age....RIDICULOUS as obviously things such as FLOODS - EARTHQUAKES meteor impacts etc etc - absolutely mash all this up rock strata get mixed and turned over, that which was bottom may now be top, that which was top may now be bottom - pretty obvious really - yet science clings to this same ridiculous notion of how to date it all...Any fossil can end up in any strata and it is totally unreliable to date it this way...
So then they say oh yer that all true - but we do it SCIENTIFICALLY - we use a CARBON DATING METHOD - except NO - that IS NOT SCIENCE AT ALL... For that method to be UNIVERSALLY accurate then ALL these fossils WOULD ABSOLUTELY NEED TO BE FORMED UNDER THE SAME ATMOSPHERIC CONDITIONS - which THEY WERE NOT !!!
To get an accurate dating from carbon, it needs to be EXACT and PERFECT and UNIVERSAL conditions - alter the conditons and the RATE OF FOSSILISATION CHANGES, giving a completly INNACURATE result - and again , modern fossilised artifacts PROVE this to be so as that hat took only 50 years to form yet dated to being SIX THOUSAND years old......see how UTTERLY UNRELIABLE it ACTUALLY is..??....It MUST BE the SAME atmospheric conditions through out to give an ACCURATE universal reading - and the Earth has NEVER HAD the IDENTICAL conditions from even one year to the next year, yet alone ovee supposed "millions of years"......The greater the timespan the GREATER THE INNACURACY - obviously totally undreliable - and yet it is taught and presented as if it was all "fact" - whch it is NOT - it is actually mostly GUESSWORK ..
It has been clearly demonstrated time after time...Even the SAME dead fossilised animal - parts of it WILL GIVE DIFFERENT CARBON READINGS such that a tooth may say the animal is millions of years dead but OTHER tissue may show only a few thousand years...This is because just as I say it NEEDS a stable atmosphere to be accurate and we simply do not have that facility in the natural world..We even begin to find now with better techniques, SOFT TISSUE that science says should be utterly destroyed in just a few short decades...Modern findings are turning this particular field right on its head Folks - they ARE guessing...lol...
NO - what Iam saying here is that this notion of "autogenesis" is a fable - again - it is merely guesswork - they dont actually know anything about life or what it is or how it formed, but they cant just say that openly, so instead present their "best guess" to us as if it was legitimate fact...lol...autogenesis is directly seen to be IMPOSSIBLE !!!
I can say that confidently because look, science says that if we gather these chemical ingediants together then all by themself they will SPONTANEOUSLY form LIFE - and they try to have us believe that out of all the worlds vast liquid oceans, this perfect soup of chemicals just happened by chance to come together and so the process began......
So follow the obvious undeniable logic then - if we KILL a living animal and let it decompose BACK into that original chemical soup - then right there and then we have EVERYTHING WE NEED supposedly - and we know that as indeed this particular chemical soup until recently was a LIVING ORGANISM - we kill it, leave it there and so SHOULD have EVERYTHING in place - exact perfect mix according to this notion - all by itself - that soup will once again begin to spontaneously form RNA and DNA and so life begins..EXCEPT - NO IT DOES NOT - NOT EVER !! And so we see for sure their theory MUST be wrong - autogenesis IS A FALLACY as even under PERFECT CONDITIONS it NEVER happens spontaneously...
So - we know what scientists are like - they investigate - tamper - experiment...and of course they tried everyting their clever minds could come up to make this autogeneiss begin -xapped the mix with all kinds of energetic radiation and electrical impulse - NOTHING - nish - nada - NOT EVER - completly INERT CHEMICALS still !!
The ONLY way the process can be MANIPULATED to begin requires a DIRECT INTERVENTION - they MUST literally build a chemical scaffold first, around which the dna begins to form - then they remove the scaffold and have thus somewhat "mimicked" what occurs "naturally" and unknown to them...The point is - it is NOT SPONTANEOUS AT ALL - it REQUIRES EXTERNAL MANIPULATION !!
Despite all that we HAVE learned - we simply can NOT CAUSE life to spontaneously arise - we can NOT re animate once living tissue - all we can do is CLONE dna that is ALREADY ALIVE !!! As said in all our experiments there is definately SOMETHING MISSING - an "extra ingrediant" that is NOT PHYSICAL at all..an UNKNOWN FORCE that can NOT be replicated !!
Look - we kill an animal - should have EVERYTHING physical we need for autogenesis to begin and life to renew itself spontaneously as they propose - it NEVER HAPPENS - the chemical soup ALWAYS remains INERT - in the act of "death" itself - something MUST be taken away - some as yet unknown force or parameter that is VITAL becomes LOST upon death and we CAN NOT REPLICATE IT, do NOT EVEN KNOW WHAT IT IS - but it is obviously real and indeed vital to life itself...
This MISSING componant is that which I cal the DIVINE SPARK - define it however you like - but clearly something IS missing from that chemical mix and dead inert chemical soups NEVER comes to life all by itself
Animore; All Im saying here is that science is OFTEN WRONG about a great many things - and even though they ARE indeed often wrong, still, they will insist ALWAYS that they are "authority" that should be believed without question... This issue of fossils and dating is just one example that shows clearly how they manipulate truth to make it SEEM like "they know best", and like proper mugs, we just usually swallow it blindly without thinking...
When we DO stop and think though, we see that often times they are clearly mistaken - such as here - fossils - and their ridicluous theory soon debunked...First as said we have PROOF - literal "hard evidence" - that hat for one - though go check it out and youll soon find many many such examples that PROVE that fossilisation CAN happen in a very short time period indeed and DOES NOT NEED millions of years as science mistakenly "insists" - we have seen it happen in just a single human lifespan, 50 years was all it took for a hat to change to fossil - yet they carbon date the hat and the result said it is like SIX THOUSAND YEARS OLD - when clearly it is just FIFTY years old !!!
This shows us undeniably TWO things - first - the base ASSUMPTION from science that the process REQUIRES millions of years is PROVED FALSE...And second - the DATING and age of fossils is ALSO proved to be inaccurate as their tests gave them a definate FALSE conclusion that is undeniable - the hat is ONLY 50 years old but the test said it SHOULD be 6000 years old - HUGE discrepancey shows us the test is NOT RELIABLE and so the age and dating of fossils is UNRELIABLE also !!!
Do you even know HOW they date fossils Folks..??..It truly IS ridiculous - they take a strata of rock - they see what kind of fossils it contains - they then go look at other similar strata different area - and say because the rock is the same depth and kind, so the fossils within it MUST be the same age....RIDICULOUS as we see...And further, they then take a FOSSIL that they think they know the age of based on previous similar fossils - and so they then DATE THE ROCK ITSELF based ON the fossil...lol....Its like they just cross referance all the time fossil and rock - and yet they dont ACTUALLY KNOW any definate ages at all of either rock OR fossil...lol...They are just GUESSING Folks and again our modern artifact fossils PROVE their theory as wholly innacurate as their best guess turns out to be actually a huge HUGE discrepancy in actual real world time..
Literally they find a fossil and date it from the rock in which it is found - then they go elsewhere find a similar rock and say all the fossils there MUST be the same age...And visa versa - find a fossil they believe they have already aged correctly - then go find some other DIFFERENT ANIMALS in the SAME layers of rock, so they think they again MUST be the same age....RIDICULOUS as obviously things such as FLOODS - EARTHQUAKES meteor impacts etc etc - absolutely mash all this up rock strata get mixed and turned over, that which was bottom may now be top, that which was top may now be bottom - pretty obvious really - yet science clings to this same ridiculous notion of how to date it all...Any fossil can end up in any strata and it is totally unreliable to date it this way...
So then they say oh yer that all true - but we do it SCIENTIFICALLY - we use a CARBON DATING METHOD - except NO - that IS NOT SCIENCE AT ALL... For that method to be UNIVERSALLY accurate then ALL these fossils WOULD ABSOLUTELY NEED TO BE FORMED UNDER THE SAME ATMOSPHERIC CONDITIONS - which THEY WERE NOT !!!
To get an accurate dating from carbon, it needs to be EXACT and PERFECT and UNIVERSAL conditions - alter the conditons and the RATE OF FOSSILISATION CHANGES, giving a completly INNACURATE result - and again , modern fossilised artifacts PROVE this to be so as that hat took only 50 years to form yet dated to being SIX THOUSAND years old......see how UTTERLY UNRELIABLE it ACTUALLY is..??....It MUST BE the SAME atmospheric conditions through out to give an ACCURATE universal reading - and the Earth has NEVER HAD the IDENTICAL conditions from even one year to the next year, yet alone ovee supposed "millions of years"......The greater the timespan the GREATER THE INNACURACY - obviously totally undreliable - and yet it is taught and presented as if it was all "fact" - whch it is NOT - it is actually mostly GUESSWORK ..
It has been clearly demonstrated time after time...Even the SAME dead fossilised animal - parts of it WILL GIVE DIFFERENT CARBON READINGS such that a tooth may say the animal is millions of years dead but OTHER tissue may show only a few thousand years...This is because just as I say it NEEDS a stable atmosphere to be accurate and we simply do not have that facility in the natural world..We even begin to find now with better techniques, SOFT TISSUE that science says should be utterly destroyed in just a few short decades...Modern findings are turning this particular field right on its head Folks - they ARE guessing...lol...
NO - what Iam saying here is that this notion of "autogenesis" is a fable - again - it is merely guesswork - they dont actually know anything about life or what it is or how it formed, but they cant just say that openly, so instead present their "best guess" to us as if it was legitimate fact...lol...autogenesis is directly seen to be IMPOSSIBLE !!!
I can say that confidently because look, science says that if we gather these chemical ingediants together then all by themself they will SPONTANEOUSLY form LIFE - and they try to have us believe that out of all the worlds vast liquid oceans, this perfect soup of chemicals just happened by chance to come together and so the process began......
So follow the obvious undeniable logic then - if we KILL a living animal and let it decompose BACK into that original chemical soup - then right there and then we have EVERYTHING WE NEED supposedly - and we know that as indeed this particular chemical soup until recently was a LIVING ORGANISM - we kill it, leave it there and so SHOULD have EVERYTHING in place - exact perfect mix according to this notion - all by itself - that soup will once again begin to spontaneously form RNA and DNA and so life begins..EXCEPT - NO IT DOES NOT - NOT EVER !! And so we see for sure their theory MUST be wrong - autogenesis IS A FALLACY as even under PERFECT CONDITIONS it NEVER happens spontaneously...
So - we know what scientists are like - they investigate - tamper - experiment...and of course they tried everyting their clever minds could come up to make this autogeneiss begin -xapped the mix with all kinds of energetic radiation and electrical impulse - NOTHING - nish - nada - NOT EVER - completly INERT CHEMICALS still !!
The ONLY way the process can be MANIPULATED to begin requires a DIRECT INTERVENTION - they MUST literally build a chemical scaffold first, around which the dna begins to form - then they remove the scaffold and have thus somewhat "mimicked" what occurs "naturally" and unknown to them...The point is - it is NOT SPONTANEOUS AT ALL - it REQUIRES EXTERNAL MANIPULATION !!
Despite all that we HAVE learned - we simply can NOT CAUSE life to spontaneously arise - we can NOT re animate once living tissue - all we can do is CLONE dna that is ALREADY ALIVE !!! As said in all our experiments there is definately SOMETHING MISSING - an "extra ingrediant" that is NOT PHYSICAL at all..an UNKNOWN FORCE that can NOT be replicated !!
Look - we kill an animal - should have EVERYTHING physical we need for autogenesis to begin and life to renew itself spontaneously as they propose - it NEVER HAPPENS - the chemical soup ALWAYS remains INERT - in the act of "death" itself - something MUST be taken away - some as yet unknown force or parameter that is VITAL becomes LOST upon death and we CAN NOT REPLICATE IT, do NOT EVEN KNOW WHAT IT IS - but it is obviously real and indeed vital to life itself...
This MISSING componant is that which I cal the DIVINE SPARK - define it however you like - but clearly something IS missing from that chemical mix and dead inert chemical soups NEVER comes to life all by itself
Last edited:
Are we supposed to read just the big letters together?