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A Challenge To All Creationists

Ouroboros

Coincidentia oppositorum
One is not enough. Because scientists have been wrong before and I don't believe them. You will need many more than one.
No. To show that evolution does occur you only need to show it in one. But gladly, we have a lot more than one.

Yes,. Deny it if you will but there should be millions of transitional forms in the fossil record - if transitional forms exist.
No. It shouldn't. And Gould explains why. You're the one making up your own science. It's a strawman argument you're providing.
 

Ouroboros

Coincidentia oppositorum
You don't have any confirmed transitional forms, only assumed ones. And don't give me that ecology junk. They should be there and they aren't. Macro-evolution remains only a flimsy theory.with no proof to support it.
It's your opinions, but it's not the opinion of the scientists working in the field. Sorry. But you don't dictate the science here. You can have your own opinions, but you can't have your own facts.
 

Reggie Miller

Well-Known Member
It's your opinions, but it's not the opinion of the scientists working in the field. Sorry. But you don't dictate the science here. You can have your own opinions, but you can't have your own facts.

Translation: "I don't have any proof but my opinions are better than yours."
 

Reggie Miller

Well-Known Member
No. To show that evolution does occur you only need to show it in one. But gladly, we have a lot more than one.


No. It shouldn't. And Gould explains why. You're the one making up your own science. It's a strawman argument you're providing.

You have zero. I'm arguing facts. Try reality. You've got nothing.
 

Reggie Miller

Well-Known Member
I've held some of the fossils in class...

So who should I trust? Your misguided opinion or the factual evidence I've held?

In other words, there's nothing more to discuss.

You can't prove your fossil is a transitional form, you only assume that it is. So you've got nothing but a lot of wishful thinking working for you.

And you're right - you've got nothing to discuss with me because I'm not interested in your assumptions.
 

Ouroboros

Coincidentia oppositorum
You can't prove your fossil is a transitional form, you only assume that it is. So you've got nothing but a lot of wishful thinking working for you.
Then you don't know anything about how to read a bone. We had to learn how to analyze them. Growth plates, sutures, curvatures, muscle attachments, and much more. The bones tell stories, but you have to learn how to read first.

And you're right - you've got nothing to discuss with me because I'm not interested in your assumptions.
Good enough for me.
 

Reggie Miller

Well-Known Member
Then you don't know anything about how to read a bone. We had to learn how to analyze them. Growth plates, sutures, curvatures, muscle attachments, and much more. The bones tell stories, but you have to learn how to read first.


Good enough for me.

Oh, you mean you've got to learn how to assume things about bones. I already knew that.

The bones don't tell stories. They're just bones.
 

Ouroboros

Coincidentia oppositorum
Can you prove it? Transition from one phyla to different one? You should be able to prove it, all of the RNA and DNA is there.
Actually, DNA does prove heritage between living species, through ERV, transposones, markers, and analogous/synonymous mutations. But that's a different story.

Yet you can't. Hmm...
I thought we were don talking.

Your misinformed posts are only annoying and distracting, so I'll put you on ignore. Don't bother post me anymore.
 

Reggie Miller

Well-Known Member
Actually, DNA does prove heritage between living species, through ERV, transposones, markers, and analogous/synonymous mutations. But that's a different story.


I thought we were don talking.

Your misinformed posts are only annoying and distracting, so I'll put you on ignore. Don't bother post me anymore.

Sounds good to me. If you can't put up a good argument against 'im, just ignore 'im and maybe he'll go away.
 

Reggie Miller

Well-Known Member
Let A be your great, great grandparents, and let C be your great, great grandchildren. Place you between them, and now you are a transitional form. Congratulations!

Yes, but that is not what we are talking about, far from it. He's talking about putting an ape-like creature in the line and such. Complete horse hockey.
 

Willamena

Just me
Premium Member
Yes, but that is not what we are talking about, far from it. He's talking about putting an ape-like creature in the line and such. Complete horse hockey.
It sounds very much like you're talking about transitional forms.

Let A be Australopithecus 3.2 million years ago, and let C be Homo Sapiens yesterday, or today if you like, and place B between them. Now you have a transitional form.

 

Reggie Miller

Well-Known Member
It sounds very much like you're talking about transitional forms.

Let A be Australopithecus 3.2 million years ago, and let C be Homo Sapiens yesterday, or today if you like, and place B between them. Now you have a transitional form.

You've got an imagined/assumed transitional form.
 

Shad

Veteran Member
I don't have the source of Gould's quote but Mayr said what I posted in a book he wrote: "What Evolution is," p 189 & p69.

Which is quote-mining as neither holds the same conclusion you attempt to justify by quoting them.

It is amusing that when a quote refutes someone's theology, they always whine abut quote mining, something they all do when they think it serves their purpose.

It is amusing to see copy/paste hacks not read their sources and fail realize that both support evolution.

Better luck next time with all of your empty claims.

Read your own citations and their views. You have done nothing but quote-mined and created a strawman from two proponents of evolution not creationism. Also since I provided the source you used which is not the books from either person you claim to cite I justified my assertion with evidence.

Let me know when you can figure out the difference between an assertion and justification.

The quote itself is as follows.

"From Darwin's day to the present, there has been a heated controversy over whether macroevolution is nothing but an unbroken continuation of microevolution, as Darwin and his followers had
claimed, or rather is disconnected from microevolution, as asserted by his opponents, and that it must be explained by a different set of theories. According to this view, there is a definite
discontinuity between the species level and that of the higher taxa. The reason why this controversy has not been fully settled is because there seems to be an astonishing conflict between theory and observation. According to Darwinian theory, evolution is a populational phenomenon and should therefore be gradual and continuous. This should be true not only for microevolution but
also for macroevolution and for the transition between the two. Alas, this seems to be in conflict with observation. Wherever we look at the living biota, whether at the level of the higher taxa or
even at that of the species, discontinuities are overwhelmingly frequent. Among living taxa there is no intermediacy between whales and terrestrial mammals, nor between reptiles and either birds or mammals. All 30 phyla of animals are separated from each other by a gap. There seems to be a large gap between the flowering plants (angiosperms) and their nearest relatives. The discontinuities are even more striking in the fossil record. New species usually appear in the fossil record suddenly, not connected with their ancestors by a series of intermediates. Indeed there are rather few cases of continuous series of gradually evolving species. How can this seeming contradiction be explained? At first sight, there seems to be no method available to explain macroevolutionary phenomena by microevolutionary theories. But should it nevertheless be possible to expand the microevolutionary processes into macroevolutionary ones? And furthermore, can it be shown that macroevolutionary theories and laws are fully consistent with the microevolutionary findings? The possibility of such an explanation was shown by a number of authors during the evolutionary synthesis, particularly by Rensch and Simpson. They successfully developed Darwiniangeneralizations about macroevolution without having to analyze any correlated changes in gene frequencies. This approach was consistent with the modern definition of evolution as a change in adaptedness and diversity, rather than as a change in gene fre-quencies, as suggested by the reductionists. To put it in a nutshell, in order to prove that there is an unbroken continuity between macro- and microevolution, the Darwinians have to demonstrate that seemingly very different "types" are nothing but the end points in a continuous series of evolving populations.

Source: The book itself pdf page 223-4 (top left) https://sunsetridgemsbiology.wikisp...tionis.pdf/245942423/mayr-whatevolutionis.pdf

The context matters as the book is not addressing your creationism but views within evolutionary theory that are decades old. Read your sources.
 

Jose Fly

Fisker of men
New species appear in the record suddenly, not connected with their ancestors by a series of intermediates.

But that doesn't mean there are no transitional fossils. As Gould noted, transitionals between larger taxonomic groups are "abundant".

And FYI, there wouldn't be a "series of intermediates" between a parental species and its newly-evolved species, as we know from observation.
 
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