A Chance for Atheists to Recover

[Smoke]

BTW, has anyone else noticed that all the "Prophetic advice" being offered in this thread is so lacking in self-reflection that we seem to be overrun with vampires?
:dracula:

I find that to be the case with prophetic advice in general.

 

[Ant0nio]

We are in a constant state of killing. By merely living, you are slaughtering literally millions of organisms. Consumption of large quantities of food is a part of life as well, in the same way. It can't be helped. Choosing, by principle, to choose one food or another is no different from the choice of any omnivore in nature.

However, I whole-heartedly support the idea of choosing NOT to consume certain foods for your own health or for the well-being of society. I, personally, avoid all high-fructose corn syrup and certain preservatives.

You are right tomspug, we are in a constant state of killing by merely living. But the effect of this karmic hinderance that we aquire from this killing is minimal, and can be remove by practicing the Quan Yin meditation.

However, the karmic hinderance that comes from killing animals if very very heavy. I'll quote the master again on the suffering in comparison to plants and animals:

Q: Eating animals is killing living beings, but isn't eating vegetables a kind of killing, too?

M: Eating plants is also killing living things and will create some karmic hindrance, but the effect is very minimal. If one practices the Quan Yin Method for two and a half hours every day, one can get rid of this karmic effect. As we have to eat in order to survive, we choose food which has the least consciousness and suffers the least. Plants consist of 90% water, thus their level of consciousness is so low that it hardly feels any suffering. Furthermore, when we eat many vegetables we don't cut their roots, but rather we help their asexual reproduction by cutting branches and leaves. The end result can actually be beneficial to the plant. Therefore, horticulturists say that pruning vegetation helps them grow large and beautiful.

This is even more evident with fruit. When fruit ripens, it will attract people to eat it by its fragrant smell, beautiful color and delicious taste. It is in this way that fruit trees can achieve their purpose of propagating their seed over a wide area. If we do not pick and eat them, the fruit will become overripe and will fall to the ground to rot. Its seed will be shaded from sunlight by the tree above them and will die. So, eating vegetables and fruit is a natural tendency, which brings to them no suffering at all.

 

[Ant0nio]

There's a similar symbiotic relationship between humans and our domesticated food animals, who are given shelter and fed well, and bred for their preferable food attributes.

This relationship you are referring to between domesticated food animals and humans is not defined as symbiotic, but parasitic.

Both parties do not benefit, because the domesticated animals are harmed and eventually killed. An even better term for this relationship is called "predation".

There is nothing mutually beneficial about it. Also, animals feel just as much pain as humans do.

 

[Ant0nio]

All right, then, maybe you could explain this now obvious double standard.

Let me ask you, have you or anyone else in this forum ever eaten sponge?

I wouldn't eat a sponge because it's scientifically classified as an animal. I bet it doesn't taste very good either. There are countless other very delicious things to eat that aren't animals. I've never had the opportunity to try sponge, and if offered, I would refuse

 

[Ant0nio]

The double standard is based on the ultimately anthro-centric assumption that animals are a higher form of life. Personally, I think it's bs.

Because plants can't express pain in a way we understand, we assume they don't feel it.

I'm not assuming that plants do not feel suffering, only that it is very small, minimal. And the karmic hinderance that you get from eating plants can be removed easily by practicing the Quan Yin method of meditation.

 

[Ant0nio]

I find that to be the case with prophetic advice in general.

I'm not claiming to be a prophet. I'm an initiate of the Quan Yin method of meditation.

I'm only offering a method to prove God's existence. I'm only telling you what is required to learn this method. I apologize if I have come off as boastful, or arrogant :sorry1:. I'm doing my best to be as humble as I can :bow:, and to answer your questions to the best of my ability. I'm not better than anybody. We are all human.

If you have been searching for a way to get into contact with God, then i've come tell you how to find that way. That's all. If you have any more questions please ,feel free to ask .

 

[BucephalusBB]

I'm only offering a method to prove God's existence.

If there was only one way to really proof God's existance, there would be a lot less atheists.

Besides, you are throwing "proof" on feelings now. That is exactly that wich (most or at least me) atheists do not consider proof.

 

[Ant0nio]

If there was only one way to really proof God's existance, there would be a lot less atheists.

Besides, you are throwing "proof" on feelings now. That is exactly that wich (most or at least me) atheists do not consider proof.

Lol, this is a way! But it seems that people don't want to try it.

The funny thing is, I've found, is that many people just don't want to have to commit to being vegetarian, following the precepts, and actually practicing the meditation.

Most people don't want to let go of meat. Others think the meditation takes too long. And others have problems with the precepts. It has nothing to do with feelings. I'm not saying that you get a feeling from practicing the method, i'm saying you can see and hear the proof for yourself.

You can see the Light of God, and hear the Sound of God. You may feel love , as I have found, from practicing the method, but you also see for yourself the inner light and hear the inner sound of God. The Kingdom of Heaven is within you, this method of meditation is a way to access the kingdom.

Oh, and I didn't mention it before, but if you have a problem with being completely vegetarian, or a problem with having to practice the 2 1/2 hour a day meditation, there is another option.

It is called the convenient method, it only requires that you be vegetarian for 10 days out ofthe month, and the meditation is just 30 minutes a day.

You will be able to experience the light, but no the sound with the convenient method. I myself practiced the convenient method before I was initiated into the Quan Yin method.

If you have any more questions please feel free to ask.

 

[BucephalusBB]

Lol, this is a way! But it seems that people don't want to try it.

The funny thing is, I've found, is that many people just don't want to have to commit to being vegetarian, following the precepts, and actually practicing the meditation.

Most people don't want to let go of meat. Others think the meditation takes too long. And others have problems with the precepts. It has nothing to do with feelings. I'm not saying that you get a feeling from practicing the method, i'm saying you can see and hear the proof for yourself.

You can see the Light of God, and hear the Sound of God. You may feel love , as I have found, from practicing the method, but you also see for yourself the inner light and hear the inner sound of God. The Kingdom of Heaven is within you, this method of meditation is a way to access the kingdom.

Oh, and I didn't mention it before, but if you have a problem with being completely vegetarian, or a problem with having to practice the 2 1/2 hour a day meditation, there is another option.

It is called the convenient method, it only requires that you be vegetarian for 10 days out ofthe month, and the meditation is just 30 minutes a day.

You will be able to experience the light, but no the sound with the convenient method. I myself practiced the convenient method before I was initiated into the Quan Yin method.

If you have any more questions please feel free to ask.

You just keep on trying don't you.. :flirt:

I see light every day, I hear sound every day. I feel love every day AND I eat meat

You are right, I am definatelly not going to let go meat. And every second I will use to meditate is a second lost on my day.
But I am happy for you that you found peace within yourself with it

 

[doppelganger]

T
There is nothing mutually beneficial about it. Also, animals feel just as much pain as humans do.

Sure there is, you're just not considering the whole picture. Biologically speaking, domesticated food animals thrive in huge populations living relatively leisurely lifestyles until the last five minutes or so. None of these animals would likely survive long in the wild. Their genes are passed on and they thrive on the planet because they have a mutual relationship with us.

 

[Yerda]

Sure there is, you're just not considering the whole picture. Biologically speaking, domesticated food animals thrive in huge populations living relatively leisurely lifestyles until the last five minutes or so. None of these animals would likely survive long in the wild. Their genes are passed on and they thrive on the planet because they have a mutual relationship with us.

I imagine we have a different idea of what constitutes "thriving" and a "leisurely lifestyle".

 

[doppelganger]

I imagine we have a different idea of what constitutes "thriving" and a "leisurely lifestyle".

Well, modern industry has made a mockery of that relationship . . . . that's for sure. But then, modern industry has made most of us into little more than glorified domesticated food animals.

 

[Magic Man]

Let me ask you, have you or anyone else in this forum ever eaten sponge?

I wouldn't eat a sponge because it's scientifically classified as an animal. I bet it doesn't taste very good either. There are countless other very delicious things to eat that aren't animals. I've never had the opportunity to try sponge, and if offered, I would refuse

That's very interesting. Now maybe you can respond to the comment that you quoted. The bold part is the key. People don't not eat sponges because they're an animal. They don't eat them because they can't possibly taste good, and I can't imagine they have any nutritional value.

I've seen you say that killing plants and eating them is acceptable because the karmic repercussions are manageable. So, basically, it's OK because it's not quite as bad as killing and eating an animal. It's not actually acceptable, it's just better than that particular alternative.

 

[9-10ths_Penguin]

Plants consist of 90% water, thus their level of consciousness is so low that it hardly feels any suffering.

How does water content affect level of consciousness and suffering of an organism? Jellyfish are 98% water - do they suffer even less than plants when they die?

And where did you get that 90% figure?

The first source I could find in an online search (a study from the University of Nebraska) shows that water content for a variety of prairie plants (including various grasses and bushes, but also one species of sunflower) varied from 84% to 40% from spring to summer over the study period.

For comparison, water content for humans generally ranges from about 55% to 78%, according to Wikipedia.

 

[Ant0nio]

Sure there is, you're just not considering the whole picture. Biologically speaking, domesticated food animals thrive in huge populations living relatively leisurely lifestyles until the last five minutes or so. None of these animals would likely survive long in the wild. Their genes are passed on and they thrive on the planet because they have a mutual relationship with us.

Perhaps the example you are giving pertains to some situations, but definitely not in regards to factory farms. The conditions are very cramped, uncomfortable for the animals, and definitely not leisurely.

I could go on and on for days about the cruelty, pain, suffering and many other horrors that animals go through on factory farms. There is nothing at all leisurely about it. But it's not just the suffering of the animals that plays a part, but also the effect raising animals for meat has on the planet as a whole.

Also I surely wouldn't use the term thrive to describe the state of animals bred for food in the world. Billions of animals are killed for food each year. The crazy thing is, that the majority of food grown is used to feed the livestock. The animals consume more food than people in the world do.

 

[Ant0nio]

That's very interesting. Now maybe you can respond to the comment that you quoted. The bold part is the key. People don't not eat sponges because they're an animal. They don't eat them because they can't possibly taste good, and I can't imagine they have any nutritional value.

I've seen you say that killing plants and eating them is acceptable because the karmic repercussions are manageable. So, basically, it's OK because it's not quite as bad as killing and eating an animal. It's not actually acceptable, it's just better than that particular alternative.

Correct. In a sense, killing plants and eating them isn't acceptable, but there is much less suffering involved, and the plants may even benefit. Plants are typically not intelligent/sentient beings. Animals however are. Pigs are quite intelligent, more intelligent than three year olds, and much smarter than dogs. They are social creatures and exhibit tendencies of affection and love. They feel pain. The same type of pain that you and I feel. Plants do not share these same characteristics. Plants have been proven to respond to affection, but they do not experience the level of suffering that animals do.

So, eating plants does incur a some karmic hinderance, but it is very minimal, and therefore manageable by practicing the Quan Yin method, and a much better alternative. Also, more importantly, it's required to be initiated into the Quan Yin method of meditation.

But if you can't be vegetarian completely, you can try another version of the method if you are willing to be vegetarian for 10 days of each month. This method is aptly named the Convenient method, and takes only 30 minutes a day.

Again, I'll quote the master on this subject:

Q. Eating animals is killing living beings, but isn't eating vegetables a kind of killing, too?
M. Eating plants is also killing living things and will create some karmic hindrance, but the effect is very minimal. If one practices the Quan Yin Method for two and a half hours every day, one can get rid of this karmic effect. As we have to eat in order to survive, we choose food which has the least consciousness and suffers the least. Plants consist of 90% water, thus their level of consciousness is so low that it hardly feels any suffering. Furthermore, when we eat many vegetables we don't cut their roots, but rather we help their asexual reproduction by cutting branches and leaves. The end result can actually be beneficial to the plant. Therefore, horticulturists say that pruning vegetation helps them grow large and beautiful.

This is even more evident with fruit. When fruit ripens, it will attract people to eat it by its fragrant smell, beautiful color and delicious taste. It is in this way that fruit trees can achieve their purpose of propagating their seed over a wide area. If we do not pick and eat them, the fruit will become overripe and will fall to the ground to rot. Its seed will be shaded from sunlight by the tree above them and will die. So, eating vegetables and fruit is a natural tendency, which brings to them no suffering at all.

 

[Ant0nio]

How does water content affect level of consciousness and suffering of an organism? Jellyfish are 98% water - do they suffer even less than plants when they die?

And where did you get that 90% figure?

The first source I could find in an online search (a study from the University of Nebraska) shows that water content for a variety of prairie plants (including various grasses and bushes, but also one species of sunflower) varied from 84% to 40% from spring to summer over the study period.

For comparison, water content for humans generally ranges from about 55% to 78%, according to Wikipedia.

Plants do not have brains.

Jellyfish do not have brains, and have not been proven to feel pain.

The 90% figure was a quote for Master Ching Hai taken from here. You'll have to scroll down to the part where it says " Master answers Questions"

 

[doppelganger]

Jellyfish do not have brains, and have not been proven to feel pain.

Buy many plants do feel something akin to pain, as the scientific journal article I linked above explains.

 

[Ant0nio]

You just keep on trying don't you.. :flirt:

I see light every day, I hear sound every day. I feel love every day AND I eat meat

You are right, I am definatelly not going to let go meat. And every second I will use to meditate is a second lost on my day.
But I am happy for you that you found peace within yourself with it

If you found a way to go to heaven while still living, and contact God every day directly, wouldn't you try to tell others?

The meditation is for spiritual cultivation. For spiritual wealth. I'm not the first to say that spiritual wealth is much more important than material wealth.

If you are happy, and can't sacrifice meat to learn this method, then I respect your decision. Also, there is another method for you if you are willing to be vegetarian 10 days out of the month called the Convenient method. It only takes 30 minutes a day. It is not as strong as the Quan Yin method, but you will be able to see the light.

If you don't want to use this method either, then I wish you the best.

 

[Rolling_Stone]

Why do threads always degenerate into this? This thread was started because another thread started making atheists look stupid and now there's this.:sad4: