A christian and lesbian wife?

[PeteC-UK]

Hi Folks..

Penguin;

You have some very strange ideas about Catholic doctrine. In the eyes of the Church, only one thing matters in determining whether someone is Catholic: whether they were baptized into the Catholic faith. That's it.

lol....Didnt put much thought into that statement dd you..?..Please explain then - WHY are there rules and penalties in place such as excommunication,.?...If catholics are allowed to "do as they please regardless just as long as they are baptised" - then obviously no other rules or sanctions would be necassary at all..lol...ridiculous statement, knee jerk reaction...Let stick to truth shall we..?....

I think you will find that the OP - according to their own catholic doctrine - has violated TWO COMMANDMENTS - the 6th and the 9th - which as we probably know are sexual commands regarding the intimate relations we have...Homosexuality is completely forbidden under the heading "fornication" - and such violation bring an AUTOMATIC excommunication and dont even require "judging" by any catholic authority - in very real sense its like the individual has turned their back on one of their gods sacred commands and WILLFULLY gone against that decree - therefore excommunication is automatic BY THE GOD and not by the church itself - the god literally STOPS COMMUNING with the individual - the clue is always in the word definition itself lol - their own behaviour makes this happen - the god does not accept the individual again UNTIL the offending behaviours has STOPPED - therefore, you simply CANNOT BE a lesbian catholic at all the god will turn its back on you....

I know some here struggle greatly - so I will provide a dumbed down version that all should be able to follow easily...Note especially the part about the ten commandments for it all rests on THESE DICTATES supposedly by the god DIRECTLY, just as the earlier definition of WIFE and marriage comes directly from the CREATION EVENT as likewise dictated by that god - follow the link - see clearly stated the OP has violated no 6 and 9 and so such ex communication is already in force for her BY THE GOD directly and it really doesnt matter what a man says about it at all - its what the GOD says that counts and he has given them DICTATES right at the core of their belief system that MUST be followed...

http://www.dummies.com/how-to/content/catholicism-excommunication-and-other-penalties.html

Again - the two pertinant questions remain..First, can you even claim to BE catholic if you dont ACTUALLY follow the gods dictates..?...( no of course not - you are at best a fake catholic PRETENDING to obey the god - obvious)

Second - who is in charge of the religion here - does man tell god what is acceptable - or does this god dictate it to the man..?...(its SUPPOSED to be the god in charge,good and proper catholics follow HIS will as laid down BY those dictates - again exceedingly OBVIOUS)...

All ways around - HYPOCRASY !! of course all that two faced twisting of truth leads directly to societal CONFUSION and all the division that brings - but it can stop if you(s) just forget the "political correctness" and stick to dealing with the truth of the situation..

And no - despite the weak sarcasm - Im not claiming any station of pope or any such thing - personally DO NOT AGREE WITH THE RELIGION AT ALL and somewhat despise THAT god though I do despise outright hypocrasy and lies even more - just so we are clear - to me - its all about TRUTH with no political religious agenda at all EXCEPT the truth of all things..Gnosis.....Here - the god DICTATES one thing - mortals DICTATE something else - and still claim to "know and FOLLOW the will of god" - it is utterly ludicrous all ways around - a complete farce - a self mockery - and an outright mockery of their god..

To believe here that a man - a pope - is the only authorirty that matters - is to place MORTAL SELF above the spiritual imperative that is HEART AND CORE of the very religion itself....The "god" has the authority always - the pope is its "spokeman" so they believe, and that is ALL he is.....Now as said, that god gave COMMANDMENTS that ALL this catholic doctrine is wholly based on...They are the CORE FOUNDATION of the WHOLE FAITH.....If then this "god" wished to give an entirely different version of its truth - then somewhere it would have given us NEW COMMANDMENTS just as it did it the Jews - and just as it did later of course to the Muslims.. it hasnt done that, has it..?....

NO - all the new stuff from the "christain" that brinigs this religious confusion comes directly from MAN and man alone, as he avoids bits of spiritual truth that do not suit - discards his "god" as he sees fit - and basically "makes it up as he goes along".........

 

[Saint Frankenstein]

Hi Folks..

Penguin;

lol....Didnt put much thought into that statement dd you..?..Please explain then - WHY are there rules and penalties in place such as excommunication,.?...If catholics are allowed to "do as they please regardless just as long as they are baptised" - then obviously no other rules or sanctions would be necassary at all..lol...ridiculous statement, knee jerk reaction...Let stick to truth shall we..?....

I think you will find that the OP - according to their own catholic doctrine - has violated TWO COMMANDMENTS - the 6th and the 9th - which as we probably know are sexual commands regarding the intimate relations we have...Homosexuality is completely forbidden under the heading "fornication" - and such violation bring an AUTOMATIC excommunication and dont even require "judging" by any catholic authority - in very real sense its like the individual has turned their back on one of their gods sacred commands and WILLFULLY gone against that decree - therefore excommunication is automatic BY THE GOD and not by the church itself - the god literally STOPS COMMUNING with the individual - the clue is always in the word definition itself lol - their own behaviour makes this happen - the god does not accept the individual again UNTIL the offending behaviours has STOPPED - therefore, you simply CANNOT BE a lesbian catholic at all the god will turn its back on you....

I know some here struggle greatly - so I will provide a dumbed down version that all should be able to follow easily...Note especially the part about the ten commandments for it all rests on THESE DICTATES supposedly by the god DIRECTLY, just as the earlier definition of WIFE and marriage comes directly from the CREATION EVENT as likewise dictated by that god - follow the link - see clearly stated the OP has violated no 6 and 9 and so such ex communication is already in force for her BY THE GOD directly and it really doesnt matter what a man says about it at all - its what the GOD says that counts and he has given them DICTATES right at the core of their belief system that MUST be followed...

http://www.dummies.com/how-to/content/catholicism-excommunication-and-other-penalties.html

Again - the two pertinant questions remain..First, can you even claim to BE catholic if you dont ACTUALLY follow the gods dictates..?...( no of course not - you are at best a fake catholic PRETENDING to obey the god - obvious)

Second - who is in charge of the religion here - does man tell god what is acceptable - or does this god dictate it to the man..?...(its SUPPOSED to be the god in charge,good and proper catholics follow HIS will as laid down BY those dictates - again exceedingly OBVIOUS)...

All ways around - HYPOCRASY !! of course all that two faced twisting of truth leads directly to societal CONFUSION and all the division that brings - but it can stop if you(s) just forget the "political correctness" and stick to dealing with the truth of the situation..

And no - despite the weak sarcasm - Im not claiming any station of pope or any such thing - personally DO NOT AGREE WITH THE RELIGION AT ALL and somewhat despise THAT god though I do despise outright hypocrasy and lies even more - just so we are clear - to me - its all about TRUTH with no political religious agenda at all EXCEPT the truth of all things..Gnosis.....Here - the god DICTATES one thing - mortals DICTATE something else - and still claim to "know and FOLLOW the will of god" - it is utterly ludicrous all ways around - a complete farce - a self mockery - and an outright mockery of their god..

To believe here that a man - a pope - is the only authorirty that matters - is to place MORTAL SELF above the spiritual imperative that is HEART AND CORE of the very religion itself....The "god" has the authority always - the pope is its "spokeman" so they believe, and that is ALL he is.....Now as said, that god gave COMMANDMENTS that ALL this catholic doctrine is wholly based on...They are the CORE FOUNDATION of the WHOLE FAITH.....If then this "god" wished to give an entirely different version of its truth - then somewhere it would have given us NEW COMMANDMENTS just as it did it the Jews - and just as it did later of course to the Muslims.. it hasnt done that, has it..?....

NO - all the new stuff from the "christain" that brinigs this religious confusion comes directly from MAN and man alone, as he avoids bits of spiritual truth that do not suit - discards his "god" as he sees fit - and basically "makes it up as he goes along".........

You have a pot leaf in your avatar, which is disrespectful - if not outright sacrilege - towards the Sacred Heart of Christ, and can't even spell "Gnostic" correctly. Spare us. No one cares about your bloviating.

 

[McBell]

No one cares about your bloviating.

I find it most entertaining.
A non-Catholic thinking they know more about Catholicism than Catholics.
Add all his posturing and bold empty claims declared as though proven fact.
I bet he is a lawyer....
or a salesman.

 

[9-10ths_Penguin]

Hi Folks..

Penguin;

lol....Didnt put much thought into that statement dd you..?

I put plenty of thought into it. Looks like you didn't put much thought into reading it, though, since you ended up responding to points that are nothing like the ones I actually raised.

..Please explain then - WHY are there rules and penalties in place such as excommunication,.?...If catholics are allowed to "do as they please regardless just as long as they are baptised"

If you continue to pretend to quote me with things I didn't say, this conversation will be over.

You utterly misunderstood my post. If you want to continue, re-read it and try again.

 

[PeteC-UK]

Hi Folks..

Frankenstein; WTF..?...I have a ganja leaf pic and that is a sacrilege to Christ..???...lol...where do you even get THAT from..??...lol...Oh wait - dont tell me - its another religious confusion I bet..???....

So - judging from the self proclaimed "saintly" status - and from the Latin phrase on your own avatar - we know you are a "bible adherant" of some type or other - so I will use your own book to dismiss your - rather stupid and pointless statement above...Genesis - 1, 29 - the god of the bible says it has CREATED ALL PLANTS AND HERBS FOR OUR USE !! ALL of them - for US !! Let it sink in....so,is cannabis such a plant ordained IN that statement..??..And if not, why not..?..And is your rather personal remark even necassary or at all even relevant to homosexual religious matters at all..?..

Oh and btw - Christ - has NO AFFILIATION to this religious god of the Jews and Catholics - NOT MY FATHER He told you all clearly - and again, you all failed to listen...

Clearly - you have no legitimate rebuttal of the rather obvious undeniable truths I present this thread - so instead - resort to personal attacks and attempts to discredit, implying that because Im a stoner you somehow already are my superiior...lol...Ridiculous - As advised - lets stick to truth shall we..?..Deal with the things presented if you can - or continue with the personal remarks if you must - but be warned - they cannot actually ALTER that truth presented,can they..?...lol...

"oooo I dont like what he says, but its all true and hes making me so so MAADDDDD......I know - I will mock him, discredit him, SILENCE him - then maybe his truth will go away"....lol....Listen to yourself...lol...you sound just like those first Jews when Christ spoke to them and told them also they are deceived...lol...still, He did warn me this would happen - stick to the truth always though He says - despite what the world out there says..You honestly dont know Him at all despite the self proclaimed saintly title

Your comments mean nothing to me - as said - irrelevant to the topic - and irrelevant to me on the personal level as I already know my Self fully, and intimiately - just as Christ advised - here though - I will show you your own Self(s) clearly if I must..Do try to get a grip on yourself(s) - the confusion is leading some you to anger and making you say stupid unfounded and pointless things...Take a step back - see the truth as YOUR "god" presented it, and not how you yourselves now wish it to be...lol...

Note - its YOUR god - not mine - not Christs either - seems very very clear - the religion has most here GREATLY confused - we see now why my mate said clearly - the blind lead the blind here,and you all fell in the same hole...lol....

Mestemia; I invite you here - SHOW me these EMPTY claims..??..I will fill in the detail as you need - provide any reasonable proof you require - and it will all be based on truth that can be seen by anyone free of an indoctrinated mind - no worries at all

Penguin; You said in effect that the only criteria for ACTUALLY being catholic - was to get oneself baptised and that was all it took in the eyes of the religion itself - and you said, after baptism,you will ALWAYS be a catholic no matter what you do....Correct..?..

Well - Im not trying to put word in your mouth - BUT - what you say implies explicitly that any and all sanctions are not warranted and shouldnt even exist at all - do you see..?...If baptism is a guarabteed membership,so to speak - then no need whasoever for any rules or regulations that then PROHIBIT that membership..Do you see..?..

Well - simply that baptism thing must be incorrect - cannot be so - as the catholics themeselves then came up with various sanctions, punishments and the ulitimate ex communication that DO prohibit what you say is a GUARANTEED acceptance.... Many many rules apply - not least of which is the obediance of the gods COMMANDS obviously..lol...hence any who break those commands face these imposed punishments - so obviously - there is a lot LOT more going on than a "mere baptism makes you catholic"...

Or do you propose as they seem to above - mans will comes first - do as you wish - just dunk your head under water first and submit to "god" and church and whatever you do after simply does not matter TO that god or church..?..

If baptism was all that mattered then no such rules or sanctions would even be needed or mentioned - again,rather obvious..You cant after all - be "unbaptised" cant turn back time like it never happened, so of course you will ALWAYS be a cathiloic in that sense - but if you go directly against the gods decrees after, then that god will abandon you and the church will reflect that position in the way it then treats and labels you....

See the point - SUBMIT TO GOD - baptism places the individual under an OBLIGATION to abide in fellowship WITH that god..SUBMIT ot the god - you cant pick and choose what you accept - HE is supposed ot be boss here..lol...Im laughing at the absurdity of the essential truth of it all..

 

[Saint Frankenstein]

Hi Folks..

Frankenstein; WTF..?...I have a ganja leaf pic and that is a sacrilege to Christ..???...lol...where do you even get THAT from..??...lol...Oh wait - dont tell me - its another religious confusion I bet..???....

So - judging from the self proclaimed "saintly" status - and from the Latin phrase on your own avatar - we know you are a "bible adherant" of some type or other - so I will use your own book to dismiss your - rather stupid and pointless statement above...Genesis - 1, 29 - the god of the bible says it has CREATED ALL PLANTS AND HERBS FOR OUR USE !! ALL of them - for US !! Let it sink in....so,is cannabis such a plant ordained IN that statement..??..And if not, why not..?..And is your rather personal remark even necassary or at all even relevant to homosexual religious matters at all..?..

Oh and btw - Christ - has NO AFFILIATION to this religious god of the Jews and Catholics - NOT MY FATHER He told you all clearly - and again, you all failed to listen...

Clearly - you have no legitimate rebuttal of the rather obvious undeniable truths I present this thread - so instead - resort to personal attacks and attempts to discredit, implying that because Im a stoner you somehow already are my superiior...lol...Ridiculous - As advised - lets stick to truth shall we..?..Deal with the things presented if you can - or continue with the personal remarks if you must - but be warned - they cannot actually ALTER that truth presented,can they..?...lol...

"oooo I dont like what he says, but its all true and hes making me so so MAADDDDD......I know - I will mock him, discredit him, SILENCE him - then maybe his truth will go away"....lol....Listen to yourself...lol...you sound just like those first Jews when Christ spoke to them and told them also they are deceived...lol...still, He did warn me this would happen - stick to the truth always though He says - despite what the world out there says..You honestly dont know Him at all despite the self proclaimed saintly title

Your comments mean nothing to me - as said - irrelevant to the topic - and irrelevant to me on the personal level as I already know my Self fully, and intimiately - just as Christ advised - here though - I will show you your own Self(s) clearly if I must..Do try to get a grip on yourself(s) - the confusion is leading some you to anger and making you say stupid unfounded and pointless things...Take a step back - see the truth as YOUR "god" presented it, and not how you yourselves now wish it to be...lol...

Note - its YOUR god - not mine - not Christs either - seems very very clear - the religion has most here GREATLY confused - we see now why my mate said clearly - the blind lead the blind here,and you all fell in the same hole...lol....

Mestemia; I invite you here - SHOW me these EMPTY claims..??..I will fill in the detail as you need - provide any reasonable proof you require - and it will all be based on truth that can be seen by anyone free of an indoctrinated mind - no worries at all

^Ignore list.

Can this thread please, please be moved to Sexuality?

 

[9-10ths_Penguin]

Penguin; You said in effect that the only criteria for ACTUALLY being catholic - was to get oneself baptised and that was all it took in the eyes of the religion itself - and you said, after baptism,you will ALWAYS be a catholic no matter what you do....Correct..?..

Well - Im not trying to put word in your mouth - BUT - what you say implies explicitly that any and all sanctions are not warranted and shouldnt even exist at all

No, that's not what it implies. And if you had bothered to read the part where I said that the Church could deem individual Catholics heretics, you wouldn't be asking this.

Being Catholic through baptism doesn't mean that the Church endorses your actions or even that they think you're going to Heaven. All it means is that - in the eyes of the Church - the person is subject to Church authority. This authority can be expressed as disapproval and punishment just as much as it can be expressed as endorsement.

- do you see..?...If baptism is a guarabteed membership,so to speak - then no need whasoever for any rules or regulations that then PROHIBIT that membership..Do you see..?..

Well - simply that baptism thing must be incorrect - cannot be so - as the catholics themeselves then came up with various sanctions, punishments and the ulitimate ex communication that DO prohibit what you say is a GUARANTEED acceptance.... Many many rules apply - not least of which is the obediance of the gods COMMANDS obviously..lol...hence any who break those commands face these imposed punishments - so obviously - there is a lot LOT more going on than a "mere baptism makes you catholic"...

The Catholic Church doesn't consider excommunication to be kicking a person out of the Church; they view it more as a religious "time out".

Or do you propose as they seem to above - mans will comes first - do as you wish - just dunk your head under water first and submit to "god" and church and whatever you do after simply does not matter TO that god or church..?..

If baptism was all that mattered then no such rules or sanctions would even be needed or mentioned - again,rather obvious..You cant after all - be "unbaptised" cant turn back time like it never happened, so of course you will ALWAYS be a cathiloic in that sense - but if you go directly against the gods decrees after, then that god will abandon you and the church will reflect that position in the way it then treats and labels you....

See the point - SUBMIT TO GOD - baptism places the individual under an OBLIGATION to abide in fellowship WITH that god..SUBMIT ot the god - you cant pick and choose what you accept - HE is supposed ot be boss here..lol...Im laughing at the absurdity of the essential truth of it all..

I get the impression that what you call "essential truth" is your own personal belief system that you're incorrectly assuming the Catholic Church agrees with you about.

Instead of assuming, try doing some reading. The whole Catechism of the Catholic Church is online abd searchable. If you cared, you could very easily find out the official Catholic position on any issue instead of just going by what you assume they believe.

 

[Saint Frankenstein]

The Catholic Church doesn't consider excommunication to be kicking a person out of the Church; they view it more as a religious "time out".

Lol, well said.

 

[PeteC-UK]

Hi Folks..

Penguin; Essential truth.....Mine do you think..?...or is it really THIS GODS OWN TRUTH..??..Bare in mind I openly disavow this god and its various religions entirely - just as Christ did also - but for a CATHOLIC such as the op - it is indeed the GODS truth here...

Strip away the religious confusion - catechism, doctrine, dogma rules regulations - BEFORE ALL THAT MAN MADE ADD ON EXTRAS - what did the GOD itself say and do - for THAT is all that really matters if you are in a relationship with that god..yes..?..And lets not forget, the whole religion is SUPPOSED to be this personal communion..lol...( boy were they ever deceived on that score)..

So - before baptism or anything twisted by power mongering men who sought to dominate others here - ( such attempted domination by the religion still apparant in the world even today as my own treatment here shows clearly..lol ) - what did the GOD say first about our nature and about the sexual unions it DESIGNED us to accomodate and sanctioned for us as legitimate and ITS WILL for us..?....

Hmmm - THAT would be the ESSENTIAL truth here as I term it above....Not my Truth of course - or even Christs - but truth of the god of the catholics - should be ALL THAT MATTERS - TO a proper Catholic....Unavoidable...

Unavoidable - you cannot say you follow the will of god - then pick and choose which bits you accept and reject the others - that makes them hypocritical - fake - all this is truth - obvious..All this extra is man made religious confusion..

 

[9-10ths_Penguin]

Hi Folks..

Penguin; Essential truth.....Mine do you think..?...or is it really THIS GODS OWN TRUTH..??..Bare in mind I openly disavow this god and its various religions entirely - just as Christ did also - but for a CATHOLIC such as the op - it is indeed the GODS truth here...

Strip away the religious confusion - catechism, doctrine, dogma rules regulations - BEFORE ALL THAT MAN MADE ADD ON EXTRAS - what did the GOD itself say and do - for THAT is all that really matters if you are in a relationship with that god..yes..?..And lets not forget, the whole religion is SUPPOSED to be this personal communion..lol...( boy were they ever deceived on that score)..

So - before baptism or anything twisted by power mongering men who sought to dominate others here - ( such attempted domination by the religion still apparant in the world even today as my own treatment here shows clearly..lol ) - what did the GOD say first about our nature and about the sexual unions it DESIGNED us to accomodate and sanctioned for us as legitimate and ITS WILL for us..?....

Hmmm - THAT would be the ESSENTIAL truth here as I term it above....Not my Truth of course - or even Christs - but truth of the god of the catholics - should be ALL THAT MATTERS - TO a proper Catholic....Unavoidable...

Unavoidable - you cannot say you follow the will of god - then pick and choose which bits you accept and reject the others - that makes them hypocritical - fake - all this is truth - obvious..All this extra is man made religious confusion..

You've used up what benefit of the doubt I might have had that you're willing to respond in a way that's relevant to the conversation.

Have fun ranting. I won't be joining you until your posts start being responsive.

 

[PeteC-UK]

Hi Folks..

Penguin; How is my post "not relevant"..?..I present the core fundamental truth at the heart of the religious sexual issue - that cant really be disputed as it came directly from the god itself - and of course - that core element of god dictates OUR truth not he other way around - is relevant then to ALL Catholic truth no matter the subject, as it ALL comes - suppoedly - from the gods decrees and not mans..

To swap and change as they see fit - is a mockery of all concerned..The god said one thing clearly and ORIGINALLY - and it was man alone who then went on to twist it to his own agenda of domination - and now in modern times it is being twisted back the other way, confusing everyone all the more..

My central thing here - that nobody seems to get at all - is HOW can you even claim fellowship to a god or its religion (one of) - if all the while you disobey that gods will..?...As said, its like eating Sunday roast beef with the family, whilst claiming some superior status as a vegetarian - its outright hypocrasy and we all know it..

Catholics dont follow gods will it seems - more like they tell god what is what in this modern age , then simply INVENT new rules as they need - as said - make it up as they go along - and the GODS will and dictates are all but forgotten...