setarcos
The hopeful or the hopeless?
It means, I think you misread the intent of the phrase.I don't know what that means, but I have little interest in proving or disproving the existence of gods.
I also believe that anyone who makes it clear that they are an atheist is fooling themselves if they think they're not interested in disproving the beliefs of those who think a creator God exists via a foundation of beliefs about the subject they hold themselves. I would think if you didn't have an interest in it you wouldn't engage in a discussion about it.
Eh, just my opinion.
I said "...no better than..." not equivalent to.I wrote, "The universe has no apparent purpose, nor need it have one." I don't see the statements as equivalent. Maybe a god exists and the universe has no purpose to it.
Its not arguable, unless your lying, or relevant that the universe has no purpose apparent to you. I would argue that it does to me though. Whether or not it actually "need" a purpose may be arguable - depending on how we nail down the term "purpose".That doesn't change my position that the universe has no apparent purpose, nor need it have one.
No, you sure didn't. You implied that. Its a short hop from having no apparent purpose to thinking it has no purpose. Seems to me from the quotes I've read of prominent scientists that you've got it backwards. The universe HAS "apparent" purpose, though it may not have designed/deliberate purpose.I didn't say that.
I don't know, would it? Your suggesting that it wouldn't based upon what you comparatively know about microorganisms in relation to their host. Having a purpose beyond the microorganisms concern does not mean that the host has no purpose in relation to the microorganism.Would it behoove the microorganisms living in us to know what our purpose is?
Supposing that those microorganisms became aware that our purpose is to give them an environment to live in and if the host dies so do they. Suppose also that those organisms became aware of their own potential to kill their host or keep that host healthy enough to thrive with it based upon their own actions.
If the question of purpose to the universe arises, you seem to be saying,
"So what, nothing meaningful can be gleaned from knowing its purpose if it has one so why pursue its answer?"
I don't think that is the most prudent attitude to have.
Just that Atheists generally claim to make no claims or have no beliefs concerning these things (God/purposeful creation) and yet thought cannot be advanced without belief and beliefs cannot be countered without relevant beliefs of ones own.What's odd about that?
You said, "That's not our purpose." So you must believe we do have a purpose - that's just not it. So what is our purpose in your opinion?
I think you're looking at "purpose" wrong. Purpose is induced by sentience. In this case you've given nature purpose limited to your stirred feelings. Christians would say God gives purpose to all of creation. A sentient creature that finds no purpose in a thing would not be stirred to action intellectually or emotionally by that thing.Disagree. I find nature stirring even if was created naturalistically and for no purpose.
As a doctor, you wouldn't be disturbed by a disease that has no cause?I don't rebel at the idea that nature may be nobody's idea
I mean the reasonably derived pinnacle of possible beings. But....yes, here I am discussing the Abrahamic monotheistic conception of God.Did you mean the description the individual theist's god?
And no reason to believe a God doesn't exist since experience in nature is included in the God hypothesis.the first of which is that I have no reason to believe any gods exist.
Question is why pick one version over the other If both are equally adept at explaining existence? I mean the apparent design in nature is more easily and simply explained by a creative intelligence than the current theories we have. Which I might add are becoming closer and closer at base to being as supernatural as God ever was.
I define perfect justice as the perfect nullification of an injustice.You don't have that, unless you define justice as whatever happens.
How are you defining justice?
I think that the moment we think we aren't one of those people we become one." You might be right, but you seem to think I'm one of those people.
You must indeed be most intelligent and wise to be able to think on those cosmic scales.I'm satisfied with my ability to make that judgment.
Scripture tells us...
Proverbs 3:5
"Trust in the LORD with all your heart and lean not on your own understanding;"
Contrary to what many think, that doesn't mean that you should stop thinking and believe whatever your told to.
I hope you weren't going to go there.
Or how about...
Proverbs 14:12
"There is a way that seems right to a man, but its end is the way to death."
I'm just saying that none of us should overestimate our abilities.
Okay? But I was responding to what you said...."People see what would be gratuitous suffering if this god existed as evidence that either it doesn't exist or isn't really a friend, and so reject the claims of those who say it exists and is good."None of my opinions are based in the opinions of others about gods.
Those people are basing their rejections on ignorance or impotent anger.
I think your wrong. Jesus said "...forgive them for they know not what they do." Those that know what they do but continue anyway are the offenders against God.The Christian Bible teaches that unbelievers offend its god and are immoral. I consider that teaching immoral, and atheistic humanists to be mostly good people. You probably feel the opposite.
I'd say by definition it is immoral to offend God. Believers can offend God just as easily as unbelievers and presumably punished more harshly.
Hebrews 12:6
"do not take lightly the discipline of the Lord, and do not lose heart when He rebukes you. 6For the Lord disciplines the one He loves, and He chastises every son He receives.” 7Endure suffering as discipline; God is treating you as sons. For what son is not disciplined by his father?…”
I think according to this verse from Revelations its better that you be sincere about your search for truth rather than actually having a true opinion. It's those that ignore or deny truth when they recognize it for various reasons...pride, anger, jealousy, greed etc. - professing belief when you don't believe for your own gain or professing disbelief when you think something is true for instance - that are an offence against God and immoral.
Revelation 3:15
15I know your deeds; you are neither cold nor hot. How I wish you were one or the other! 16So because you are lukewarm—neither hot nor cold—I am about to vomit you out of My mouth!…
I'm pretty sure that scripture doesn't say that only "good" people are Christians or monotheists.