A Christians Duty and Financial Gains

[9-10ths_Penguin]

The point is Jesus never taught against wealth, but he did teach us to increase our wealth and to keep the money or goods in play.

What point do you think Jesus was trying to make in Luke 6:24-25?

24 “But woe[ca] to you who are rich, for you have received[cb] your comfort[cc] already.

25 “Woe to you who are well satisfied with food[cd] now, for you will be hungry.

*I* think he's teaching against wealth. You don't, but he presumably meant something with this passage. What do you think he meant?

 

[Balthazzar]

What point do you think Jesus was trying to make in Luke 6:24-25?

24 “But woe[ca] to you who are rich, for you have received[cb] your comfort[cc] already.

25 “Woe to you who are well satisfied with food[cd] now, for you will be hungry.

*I* think he's teaching against wealth. You don't, but he presumably meant something with this passage. What do you think he meant?

If you start from a place where things come easy and life is more luxurious than not, the other side of that life would be very grievous to a person like that. Like people who lived fairly well, were able to buy things they wanted, lived in decent homes, and were able to give good gifts to their kids becoming homeless and living on the streets. It's difficult to endure a shift in life quality, but even mor so difficult for those who have enough money to buy anything they want. Life changes and life situations change also. It's like being on top one day, then falling into dire straits. It was an easier transition for myself than some. To end up homeless, but only because I grew up with less. I have family who grew up with more, lived in 3/4 million dollar homes, operated a thriving business who ended up in a similar situation as myself. It had to be a difficult fall for him. It's more of a cautionary statement than a teaching against wealth. Here's another example: You grow up in a family atmosphere where we all look out for each other, where there is no shortage of care and compassion, or help when needed, then find yourself without that family support and end up on your own and alone. It's a very difficult transition and grievous, but that's typically the way life operates, so the caution is present and a need to understand that that could happen to you, if only to help prepare us.

What can be done to limit the negative impact of such a fall?
What will I need to know how to do to get through it?
Who can I truly count on if anyone?

The teaching was a caution and I will suggest given to help prepare people for possible future realities.

 

[Balthazzar]

I'm also reminded of Ecclesiastes and how it teaches that there is a time and place for all things and given Jesus' way of life, I'd suggest he was likewise teaching us to eat, drink, and to seek happiness - given there is nothing better to do under the sun, or so suggested the Ecclesiastical preacher.

 

[9-10ths_Penguin]

It's more of a cautionary statement than a teaching against wealth.

Do you think this makes sense in the context of the passage?

The first part of the Sermon on the Plain deals with rewards in Heaven... all the "blessed are the ____" verses (do you agree)?

What sign is there in the text that for the "woes," Jesus has pivoted and is now talking about earthly consequences?

The teaching was a caution and I will suggest given to help prepare people for possible future realities.

So it was to warn rich people against what might happen if they become poor?

... but a few sentences earlier, he told us that the consequences of being poor are wonderful, at least in the end:

“Blessed[bp] are you who are poor,[bq] for the kingdom of God belongs[br] to you.

21 “Blessed are you who hunger[bs] now, for you will be satisfied.[bt]

“Blessed are you who weep now, for you will laugh.[bu]

 

[Balthazzar]

Do you think this makes sense in the context of the passage?

The first part of the Sermon on the Plain deals with rewards in Heaven... all the "blessed are the ____" verses (do you agree)?

What sign is there in the text that for the "woes," Jesus has pivoted and is now talking about earthly consequences?




So it was to warn rich people against what might happen if they become poor?

... but a few sentences earlier, he told us that the consequences of being poor are wonderful, at least in the end:

“Blessed[bp] are you who are poor,[bq] for the kingdom of God belongs[br] to you.

21 “Blessed are you who hunger[bs] now, for you will be satisfied.[bt]

“Blessed are you who weep now, for you will laugh.[bu]

Life isn't one sided. Understanding this reality can help us endure more difficult times. When things are good, they are good. When they aren't good, things become more difficult. It was a teaching of caution to be considered by those who were living well...The other side is always there and never too far from us that we are exempt from its effects. The woes and whoah's of life are real and expected, and I'm pretty sure come to us all, if only in small segments. If not a caution only, then a teaching about the mechanics of life and an encouragement for us to endure the difficult times, understanding that the difficult times, although unpleasant are momentary, and that on the other side are more pleasing ones. That's the yin yang of life - If I may use the term.

 

[9-10ths_Penguin]

Life isn't one sided. Understanding this reality can help us endure more difficult times. When things are good, they are good. When they aren't good, things become more difficult. It was a teaching of caution to be considered by those who were living well...The other side is always there and never too far from us that we are exempt from its effects. The woes and whoah's of life are real and expected, and I'm pretty sure come to us all, if only in small segments. If not a caution only, then a teaching about the mechanics of life and an encouragement for us to endure the difficult times, understanding that the difficult times, although unpleasant are momentary, and that on the other side are more pleasing ones. That's the yin yang of life - If I may use the term.

It doesn't seem like any of this spoke to any of my questions. Care to try again?

 

[Balthazzar]

It doesn't seem like any of this spoke to any of my questions. Care to try again?

I thought I answered it as it was meant to be received. Heavenly and good things that we find satisfying are present in both scenarios. Being filled already then on to become hungry and being hungry then on to being filled. The two aspects of life, the yin and yang are always present and the needs presented are to be satisfied, but it is also expected that we will also have times where we hunger and have needs to be filled again. That's life, and the encouragement is for us to not lose heart in these difficult times. The teaching is also a caution for us to not take things for granted.

 

[MikeF]

Is this even remotely necessary? I mean to set a standard amount one is able to have and still be considered a Christian seems a bit much. Umm, in my opinion. Who in America or anywhere else for that matter truly finds this to be a valid option at all? I will assume sarcasm. Thank you.

Wasn't meant to be sarcastic. Hyperbolic perhaps, but not sarcastic. You said at the start of this thread that you see a great deal of disagreement on the issue of wealth and Christianity. I am asking, what is the standard by which to evaluate the question. Is there no standard and each decides on their own and in there own way, or is there something else to judge by, independent of what anyone personally thinks?

 

[Balthazzar]

Wasn't meant to be sarcastic. Hyperbolic perhaps, but not sarcastic. You said at the start of this thread that you see a great deal of disagreement on the issue of wealth and Christianity. I am asking, what is the standard by which to evaluate the question. Is there no standard and each decides on their own and in there own way, or is there something else to judge by, independent of what anyone personally thinks?

Judge what by? What constitutes a Christian or how much money should a Christian have and still be viewed as a Christian? The only litmus test I see valid enough to make this type of determination would be an honest self about personal practice and lifestyle. Otherwise, the Christian arena is full of many differences and consists of many types of people. I'm an evolutionist, for example. I'm also a Christian and I base that title on the premise that I honor the life of Jesus and what I've garnered from his teachings, namely my stance on an honest spirit and being appropriately placed because of.

 

[MikeF]

Judge what by? What constitutes a Christian or how much money should a Christian have and still be viewed as a Christian? The only litmus test I see valid enough to make this type of determination would be an honest self about personal practice and lifestyle. Otherwise, the Christian arena is full of many differences and consists of many types of people. I'm an evolutionist, for example. I'm also a Christian and I base that title on the premise that I honor the life of Jesus and what I've garnered from his teachings, namely my stance on an honest spirit and being appropriately placed because of.

When you speak of being an evolutionist, is that in regards to beliefs and attitudes towards religious beliefs? In other words, is it your position that beliefs and attitudes towards a particular scripture naturally evolve over time and are not fixed, and perhaps should not be fixed, or was it a reference to biological evolution? I can see your comment interpreted both ways. I would find the former an intriguing stance.

I think the counter argument from some against the notion that an honest self is the measure of what meets Christian expectations, is a lack of confidence or a complete distrust in the ability of human beings to make honest self-assessments and therefore require something more concrete.

 

[Balthazzar]

When you speak of being an evolutionist, is that in regards to beliefs and attitudes towards religious beliefs? In other words, is it your position that beliefs and attitudes towards a particular scripture naturally evolve over time and are not fixed, and perhaps should not be fixed, or was it a reference to biological evolution? I can see your comment interpreted both ways. I would find the former an intriguing stance.

I think the counter argument from some against the notion that an honest self is the measure of what meets Christian expectations, is a lack of confidence or a complete distrust in the ability of human beings to make honest self-assessments and therefore require something more concrete.

Evolution is not isolated to just biological lifeforms, but also our psychology, which I would suggest involves interpretations of religious texts. The more we learn about life and ourselves, the more our paradigms shift and when this happens, we think differently than we once did. It's a lot like how we change from thinking like children to our mentalities as young adults, then on to becoming more mature in our understanding of life. Experience tends to motivate these shifts in paradigms from one phase to the next progressively. All I can add to being an honest self is to also utilize our past experiences as a guide in our decision making. Logic and practicality can save us a world of hurt due to our experience alone. Retrospection and introspection coupled with understanding personal needs and being honest about how our actions might affect our future would be enough to truly honor my faith as a Christian, despite some people being in disagreement with my choices in life. Frankly, it's personal and what I will suggest to be what a personal relationship with Christ is.

Aspire to live a better life
Being honest/truthful
Accepting self as we are
To not fear making mistakes, but to rather learn from them.
Change comes naturally after the fact, and this is what repentance is truly about. It's a personal thing and based on who we are individually. I think the gist of it is about discovering where we belong and making effort to get there. We can only do this by understanding ourselves and our needs as individuals. Honesty helps in this effort. It helps to understand my preferences and then imagine heaven being in tune to them. We get to start here on earth and present day. We learn as we go. That's life.