A debate on christianity

[Sees]

Meh, everybody wants to debate Christianity but...rarely are any fresh arguments presented.

*Fingers crossed*

 

[Saint Frankenstein]

Meh, everybody wants to debate Christianity but...rarely are any fresh arguments presented.

*Fingers crossed*

The OP hasn't even stated what it is she wishes to debate about in the first place.

 

[Luciferi Baphomet]

Then I need to know if you are wanting to debate it in English, or would you prefer the original biblical languages of Hebrew, Aramaic and Koine Greek...for greater accuracy, of course. We can forego Latin, as that was not until much later.

I am not sure which bible.

We could always start with the bad translation that came to be known as Lucifer and go from there.
Or Satan, and how it was taken way out of context from the original Hebrew.

I do believe that Lucifer and Satan are the same person but with different names.

 

[Brickjectivity]

Meh, everybody wants to debate Christianity but...rarely are any fresh arguments presented.

People get addicted to missionaries. Some want to be pursued by folks trying to convince them of things. Its a rush, and its easier than finding people who will listen.

 

[Thief]

I am not sure which bible.


I do believe that Lucifer and Satan are the same person but with different names.

so perhaps......you could demonstrate your favored belief over the 2000 variations of Christian faith

are you to play?.....devil's advocate?

 

[Neo Deist]

I do believe that Lucifer and Satan are the same person but with different names.

We can start there...

Lucifer comes from Isaiah 14:12 of the KJV Old Testament. It was copied from the earlier works of the Latin Vulgate, done by the monk Jerome in the 4th century CE. The term is Latin, and means "the morning star," and it is a reference to the planet Venus, which can be seen at dawn. The entire chapter of Isaiah 14 is talking about a fallen Babylonian king (most likely Nebuchadnezzar II) and it has nothing to do with the devil, a demon, a fallen angel or anything even remotely resembling "Satan." Modern translations have removed the term lucifer because they realized it was used erroneously and does not belong. Lucifer refers to no one.

Satan is a term that comes from the Hebrew of the Old Testament (ha-satan). In Hebrew it is ALWAYS preceded with 'the' so the correct term is "the satan." However, a proper translation into English would be "the adversary." It is not the name of the devil, a fallen angel, or any other type of supernatural boogeyman. "Satan" is merely God's district attorney that brings people up on charges and awaits God's judgment. "Satan" is powerless to do anything outside of God's authority, as evident in the Book of Job. Furthermore, the term satan is actually a title, not a name.

If Satan were truly this diabolical, arch enemy of God, I would think that an omnipotent creator could simply snap Its divine fingers and uncreate Satan, thus saving everyone the trouble.

 

[Luciferi Baphomet]

are you to play?.....devil's advocate?

I guess I am ready to play.

 

[VioletVortex]

The New Testament is pretty much as violent as the Old Testament. I notice that many Christians seem to see the New Testament as the nice one and the Old Testament as the harsh one. In reality, they are equally harsh in their philosophies towards gays, sexuality, and non-christians.

The New Testament is the one that is read more by Christians, and it's the most marketed one, so editors change it to look more loving and less violent.

 

[Sees]

The OP hasn't even stated what it is she wishes to debate about in the first place.

I'd rather see everybody debate Satanism

Not with predictable, Bible-thumping haymakers of denunciation...things like questioning whether it fits typical criteria of religion and such. Ever seen threads like that?

 

[Katzpur]

Meh, everybody wants to debate Christianity but...rarely are any fresh arguments presented.

The OP hasn't even stated what it is she wishes to debate about in the first place.

Man, so far, this debate has been truly riveting.

 

[Luciferi Baphomet]

monk Jerome

Who was Monk Jerome?

"the morning star,"

I have heard of people calling Lucifer "The Morning Star". Some told me this "
The morning star is Venus which is the goddess of love. It is called the morning star because it is the most prominently displayed star especially in the early morning as the sun rises.
Early in the morning, overnight the brightest star is the North Star."

The entire chapter of Isaiah 14 is talking about a fallen Babylonian king (most likely Nebuchadnezzar II) and it has nothing to do with the devil, a demon, a fallen angel or anything even remotely resembling "Satan." Modern translations have removed the term lucifer because they realized it was used erroneously and does not belong. Lucifer refers to no one.

I remember that I have gotten in arguments with Christians before that they won't want to refer him as Lucifer anymore since ever they gave him the name Satan.

the term satan is actually a title, not a name.

I did get into an argument with someone on this forums here that he said that the name Lucifer is a title, not the name Satan.

If Satan were truly this diabolical, arch enemy of God, I would think that an omnipotent creator could simply snap Its divine fingers and uncreate Satan, thus saving everyone the trouble.

 

[Luciferi Baphomet]

The New Testament is pretty much as violent as the Old Testament. I notice that many Christians seem to see the New Testament as the nice one and the Old Testament as the harsh one.

I have gotten in arguments with christians in the past that they say that the New Testament in not like the Old Testament anymore. They say that they don't follow the murder, rape, etc anymore.

In reality, they are equally harsh in their philosophies towards gays, sexuality, and non-christians.

They do still continue to just others which I find it funny that in their bible it says "Not to judge anyone because they will get judged". Something like that.

The New Testament is the one that is read more by Christians, and it's the most marketed one, so editors change it to look more loving and less violent.

In what I heard that the bible has been written many times by different people and they will add and take things out of it continuously.

 

[Luciferi Baphomet]

I'd rather see everybody debate Satanism

That actually would be quite interesting.

 

[Neo Deist]

Who was Monk Jerome?

A 4th century monk that wrote the Latin Vulgate for the Roman Catholic Church some 1,200 years before the KJV was completed in 1611 for the Church of England.

I have heard of people calling Lucifer "The Morning Star".

The term lucifer (lower case L) is Latin and it does indeed mean the morning star. It comes from the Greek term heosphorus. It simply refers to the planet Venus. Jesus is also referred to as lucifer in Revelation 22:16.

Some told me this "
The morning star is Venus which is the goddess of love. It is called the morning star because it is the most prominently displayed star especially in the early morning as the sun rises.
Early in the morning, overnight the brightest star is the North Star."

Correct. Much of the zodiac comes from Greek mythology, which is constellation based.

I remember that I have gotten in arguments with Christians before that they won't want to refer him as Lucifer anymore since ever they gave him the name Satan.

Ok, but anyone that refers to Satan as Lucifer does so in error. It is based off of a bad translation, courtesy of Jerome. Understand that if you say lucifer, you are merely speaking Latin and its acronym for Venus.

I did get into an argument with someone on this forums here that he said that the name Lucifer is a title, not the name Satan.

Technically, lucifer is a title...The Morning Star. Just like The Principal, The President, The Teacher. Those are not names.

I have already explained that Satan is not a name. It too, is a title. You have to know Hebrew to understand that.

 

[Luciferi Baphomet]

A 4th century monk that wrote the Latin Vulgate for the Roman Catholic Church some 1,200 years before the KJV was completed in 1611 for the Church of England.

Wow very long time ago.

The term lucifer (lower case L) is Latin and it does indeed mean the morning star. It comes from the Greek term heosphorus. It simply refers to the planet Venus. Jesus is also referred to as lucifer in Revelation 22:16.

In my opinion I wouldn't refer jesus as Lucifer. If jesus is refereed as Lucifer then jesus rebelled against his own father? I sound pretty confusing.

Correct. Much of the zodiac comes from Greek mythology, which is constellation based.

Alright then.

Ok, but anyone that refers to Satan as Lucifer does so in error. It is based off of a bad translation, courtesy of Jerome. Understand that if you say lucifer, you are merely speaking Latin and its acronym for Venus.

I don't exactly follow the who Venus thing. I mostly just follow the path Lucifer teaches.

Technically, lucifer is a title...The Morning Star. Just like The Principal, The President, The Teacher. Those are not names.

I have already explained that Satan is not a name. It too, is a title. You have to know Hebrew to understand that.

I was taught a bit differently from what you told me.

 

[Spockrates]

So @Spockrates and I decided to have a religious debate on christianity on this forum. Others can join too.

My apologies for the late arrival. What would you like to discuss, first?

 

[Tumah]

I rather like how this thread began. Kind of like a blind date, where both parties are trying to unsuccessfully break the ice.

 

[Smart_Guy]

So um, what's the topic?

 

[Spockrates]

I rather like how this thread began. Kind of like a blind date, where both parties are trying to unsuccessfully break the ice.

[emoji4]

 

[Spockrates]

So um, what's the topic?

I'll let Priestess choose. But I don't mind others joining the dialog, if she doesn't. [emoji4]