Luciferi Baphomet
Lucifer, is my Liberator
You guys want to know what the topic is just go to the first page.
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A debate on christianity
- Thread starter Luciferi Baphomet
- Start date
Spockrates
Wonderer.
I'd be OK with discussing either Christianity or Satanism--whatever you'd enjoy most. [emoji4][emoji106]
Spockrates
Wonderer.
I'm good with sticking to the original plan, but don't mind switching topics if we decide to do so later. So should we start with Christianity? If so, what opinion about it would you like to discuss?
Spockrates
Wonderer.
Or maybe we can discuss both, by answering the question: "Which is more beneficial to the individual, Christianity or Satanism?"
Spockrates
Wonderer.
But before we begin, Priestess, I should say that I'm not into partisan religion, politics or anything like that. My goal is similar to that of the Father of Philosophy, who said:
"For the partisan, when he is engaged in a dispute, cares nothing about the rights of the question, but is anxious only to convince his hearers of his own assertions. And the difference between him and me at the present moment is only this that whereas he seeks to convince his hearers that what he says is true, I am rather seeking to convince myself!"
(Phaedo)
Like Socrates whom I admire, I'm likely to ask more questions than make assertions. Though I'll let you know what opinions I have. So if you're looking for a knockdown drag out fight with someone who cares only about changing your mind, I'm not your guy. But if you don't mind a thoughtful conversation with someone who wants to discover the truth, perhaps I might do.
"For the partisan, when he is engaged in a dispute, cares nothing about the rights of the question, but is anxious only to convince his hearers of his own assertions. And the difference between him and me at the present moment is only this that whereas he seeks to convince his hearers that what he says is true, I am rather seeking to convince myself!"
(Phaedo)
Like Socrates whom I admire, I'm likely to ask more questions than make assertions. Though I'll let you know what opinions I have. So if you're looking for a knockdown drag out fight with someone who cares only about changing your mind, I'm not your guy. But if you don't mind a thoughtful conversation with someone who wants to discover the truth, perhaps I might do.
Kelly of the Phoenix
Well-Known Member
God regretted killing nearly everyone after the OT Flood. You don't see God apologizing for killing nearly everyone after the NT Apocalypse.
Spockrates
Wonderer.
Hi, Kelly. Hope you don't mind my asking. Of what New Testament apocalypse do you speak?
Desert Snake
Veteran Member
There's no point in starting a debate if it isn't relevant, to the positions held.
So
/Are you a theistic Christian?
/Do you think that Jesus is ''different'' than G-d?
/What books of the bible, do you consider false/ if any?
Satanism for me is beneficial, it changed me in a good way.
Spockrates
Wonderer.
Hi, syncretic. Agreed.
Please define what you believe a theistic Christian is, so I know whether I am what you are asking.
Please explain what you mean by different. Different persons? Different in essence or nature? Different in their respective roles in relationship to one another? Different in some other way?
Are you asking what books of the Bible I believe are mostly misinformation, or what books of the Bible I believe have some misinformation, or are you asking something else?
Spockrates
Wonderer.
Hi, Sutekh. Please tell me in what way you are more an individual than before. [emoji4]
Neo Deist
Th.D. & D.Div. h.c.
Well, Jesus is also a lucifer (bright morning star) in Latin, as the term is not a name, but a descriptive title that can apply to anyone.
Venus is just mythology from the ancient Greeks. It is not meant to be followed.
Lucifer does not teach anything as Lucifer is not a person/being/entity. At most, Lucifer is a bad translation that traditionally has been taken out of context.
Many people are taught wrong, so no worries.
Edit: I also wanted to touch on something else from the first quote above...
Why do you think that Satan rebelled against God? Where in the Bible does it say that? I already know the answer but I am testing your knowledge.
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Desert Snake
Veteran Member
Believes in a actual Deity, G-d, Jesus, or some don't think that Jesus is a Deity. That aside, believes in an actual Deity, not a Deity concept merely in the philosofical sense, or some other idea. Traditional Xianity of course believing in an actual 'entity', a G-d, a creator, so forth.
Different in essence, or different in form, thusly.
Mostly or entirely misinformation, false in any manner
Before, I more or less had a different political view I was more to the extreme right, I am not implying so called hate groups. But I more or less followed my dad's footsteps as the herd. During the time I became involved with Satanism by reading books from the Church Of Satan. The more I perhaps read books by LaVey, the more my veiws changed. I more or less started to distance myself from the herd mentality. Satanism has mainly taught me individuality to that extent, for example "that it does not matter of what a person's ethnic background is, it's what merits the individual." In a way it benefited me. Satanism has mainly taught me to think for myself and to not conform with the herd.
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Spockrates
Wonderer.
Yes, I believe in an actual sentient being who is likely all-knowing, all-powerful and perfectly moral. Though I'm open to changing my mind, if the evidence is logical and compelling.
Different in essence, I don't believe so. Though, again, I'm keeping an open mind.
Mostly information, entirely misinformation and false in any way are three different and contrary opinions, I'd say. Are you asking if I believe any of the above?
Desert Snake
Veteran Member
Yes, and some explanation as to which books, type of falsity, would help
Kelly of the Phoenix
Well-Known Member
Revelations. It's the last book of the bible. Think a religious movie as done by Michael "Special Effects Count as Plot" Bay.
Spockrates
Wonderer.
I'll give three types of such falsity, though the fault may be in the eyes of the beholder a rather than the minds of the authors:
(1) 1 Samuel 15:3
"Now go, attack the Amalekites and totally destroy all that belongs to them. Do not spare them; put to death men and women, children and infants, cattle and sheep, camels and donkeys.’”
Personally, I cannot understand how this command demonstrates the morality of God.
* * *
(2) 1 Timothy 2:12
"I do not permit a woman to teach or to assume authority over a man; she must be quiet."
Rather than outright error, I believe this to be a kind of guess, and so open to the possibility of being incorrect.
In other places Paul is fond of saying, "God does not..." Here, he says, "I do not..." So it's logical to assume he is giving his own opinion, and thus, such a premise is not immune to giving people the wrong impression that this is some kind of divine edict. There are other places where Paul makes it even more clear he is giving his own opinion on some subject in which he is unsure what God's opinion is.
I am of the opinion that Paul is mistaken. I've learned a great deal from women who have taught me.
* * *
(3) Matthew 26:26
"While they were eating, Jesus took bread, and when he had given thanks, he broke it and gave it to his disciples, saying, 'Take and eat; this is my body.'"
Rather than outright error, these words of Jesus are to me obviously ambiguous, and so open to misinterpretation. Did he mean this?
"...this [bread] is [like] my body...."
Or did he mean this?
"...this [bread] is [actually] my body...."
It is one source of contention between Catholics and some Protestants.
I haven't made up my mind what the intended meaning of Jesus' words are, and so I'm something of a Christian without a religion.
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Spockrates
Wonderer.
OK. I believe I'm finished editing my last post. [emoji5]
Spockrates
Wonderer.
Kelly: There is likely a good deal of both symbolism and ambiguity in Revelation. Is Jesus really a lamb? Or is he like one? Is the book describing events of the past, such as the persecution, torture and murder of Christians by Ancient Rome, or is it describing events yet to come? Are the suffering of people in the book caused by God or by the cruelty people have for one another?
I'd be interested in discussing a specific passage of the book, if you have one in mind (quoting chapter and verse isn't necessary, if you just want to describe it).