A debate on mental sickness...

[oldbadger]

There is no chemical balance in the body. Ergo, psychological heath and psychological problems are due to this "imbalance", which totally defines every state of every brain.

All the time a body can function, there is a 'balance' at that time.

My wife's example might be too complicated to use, but she changed in demeanour significantly after an 'out-of-control' gland was removed.

But how about a woman whose character and/or demeanour changes significantly in pre-menstrual-tension? Please could you confirm that you ackowledge that this is an imbalance?

 

[LegionOnomaMoi]

All the time a body can function, there is a 'balance' at that time.

My wife's example might be too complicated to use, but she changed in demeanour significantly after an 'out-of-control' gland was removed.

But how about a woman whose character and/or demeanour changes significantly in pre-menstrual-tension? Please could you confirm that you ackowledge that this is an imbalance?

You may wish to try googling phrases like "far from thermodynamic equilibrium", "open systems", or similar terms. "Balance" is antithetical to the dynamics of living systems.

 

[The Hammer]

Can Brain Scans Diagnose Mental Illness? - Scientific American

 

[john2054]

Thanks everyone for engaging. And sorry if I have been away for a little while. As far as my haters can go, well sod you. I am an expert in this field and that is the end of the matter. And from those who posted those articles, well they were very interesting reading, for what I read of them at least. I am actually thinking about proposing to do my final year BA dissertation on this very matter, and that material will sure come in helpful.

Back to my authority, in fact I have some close friends who have made a full recovery without medication, and many more who are addicted to them like me. When I say addicted, this isn't like smoking or drinking (or eating beef and pork and fish) which are all within the control of the user, but a forced condition. A couple of months ago I came of my injection for a month, that's two weeks overdue. What happened to me? Did I become particularly irritable and aggressive, impulsive and irrational? No not particularly, no I didn't manage the confrontation with my family and psychiatric nurse particularly well, but then I often struggle under that kind of pressure.

So why did I agree to go back on them? Because my friends, and you listen to me now and listen to me good... If I had not agreed to go back on them my shrink guaranteed that I would be back in hospital in another two weeks. No ifs, no buts, guaranteed. And as much as I may like to blow my own trumpet, and beat my chest at pleasure at having completed more than half of my degree, this is simply a risk that I cannot afford to take. I completed my access course in 2007, and have been working at getting my life in order since then, in order to get this qualification. So the last thing I propose to do is let a few so called idiots, like we have seen rear their ugly heads on this forum, as elsewhere, throw my life down the drain of the hospital emporium.

Believe it or not, when I go to university I am treated like an equal, an academic, a thinker. Somebody with agency and insight and intellect. Somebody who is able to think for themselves and make decisions. Which is the exact opposite how somebody detained in a mental health locked ward is treated. I will apologise in advance for if any of my sentiments have offended anyone in the writing of this discourse, but much as I am commited to the wellbeing of my family, so too I am angry at the way I have been manipulated by these so called professionals and their cohort which laps their every step. A prostitute is only a prostitute if she plies her trade, but a liar and bad men remain the same wherever they go. Much analogy can be drawn here to these professions, I shudder to think!

 

[Smart_Guy]

Hey John

Before I go on, I'd like to apologize in advance because I'm completely oblivious in this subject. In my community the govt. does not care for us in the department of mental health, so no experience in it for me. I actually found out that I have some of those problems and I thought they were just a lack of social practice.

What I can help in is general knowledge only. The state of mind is something we human being were given the power to tamper with unlike other creatures. At some point we can convince ourselves of things we cannot face. There is an Italian proverb that says a cat bent up becomes a lion and my father keeps telling me that a weak person should not show his weakness to others and act otherwise.

I don't know if my ranting above is even related to the subject. I'm just a simple minded Arab

 

[john2054]

Hey John

Before I go on, I'd like to apologize in advance because I'm completely oblivious in this subject. In my community the govt. does not care for us in the department of mental health, so no experience in it for me. I actually found out that I have some of those problems and I thought they were just a lack of social practice.

What I can help in is general knowledge only. The state of mind is something we human being were given the power to tamper with unlike other creatures. At some point we can convince ourselves of things we cannot face. There is an Italian proverb that says a cat bent up becomes a lion and my father keeps telling me that a weak person should not show his weakness to others and act otherwise.

I don't know if my ranting above is even related to the subject. I'm just a simple minded Arab

Thanks Smart guy, you know that means a lot?

 

[Smart_Guy]

I'm glad it meant something to you man

 

[Nietzsche]

Because, I have witnessed the effect of these "emerging" tick born diseases first hand ... I had a Supervisor who came down with Lyme, keep in mind you can be infected, undergo initial flu-like symptoms, develop a "bulls eye" shaped rash or in some cases no rash at all, the symptoms go away like a typical "flu" and you dismiss it.

The bad reactions can come 10, 20 even 40 years later. The symptoms can in some cases mimic what we commonly call "mental illness" - in fact this was the case with this supervisor. She started to have severe depression, then odd behavior patterns, suddenly talking out loud for no real reason or even shouting with no particular sequence to explain the anger and outburst. Then one day she lays down right in front of others, curls up in fetal position to "take a nap" right on the floor before other managers and employees.

I've had lymes disease for 9 years now, though all of my problems have been physical. Debilitating pain, sunlight makes me sick, so on so forth. Layer that on top of a few bone conditions and scoliosis and I am just the happiest person on the planet.

All of my mental problems, however, came before that.

My mental problems; anxiety(I take 200mg of sertraline a day for it, haven't had a single problem since) and borderline anti-social personality disorder. I'm on meds for that too. Not purpose-use meds, because there aren't any, but stuff for the symptoms.

 

[Storm]

Thanks everyone for engaging. And sorry if I have been away for a little while. As far as my haters can go, well sod you. I am an expert in this field and that is the end of the matter. And from those who posted those articles, well they were very interesting reading, for what I read of them at least. I am actually thinking about proposing to do my final year BA dissertation on this very matter, and that material will sure come in helpful.

Back to my authority, in fact I have some close friends who have made a full recovery without medication, and many more who are addicted to them like me. When I say addicted, this isn't like smoking or drinking (or eating beef and pork and fish) which are all within the control of the user, but a forced condition. A couple of months ago I came of my injection for a month, that's two weeks overdue. What happened to me? Did I become particularly irritable and aggressive, impulsive and irrational? No not particularly, no I didn't manage the confrontation with my family and psychiatric nurse particularly well, but then I often struggle under that kind of pressure.

So why did I agree to go back on them? Because my friends, and you listen to me now and listen to me good... If I had not agreed to go back on them my shrink guaranteed that I would be back in hospital in another two weeks. No ifs, no buts, guaranteed. And as much as I may like to blow my own trumpet, and beat my chest at pleasure at having completed more than half of my degree, this is simply a risk that I cannot afford to take. I completed my access course in 2007, and have been working at getting my life in order since then, in order to get this qualification. So the last thing I propose to do is let a few so called idiots, like we have seen rear their ugly heads on this forum, as elsewhere, throw my life down the drain of the hospital emporium.

Believe it or not, when I go to university I am treated like an equal, an academic, a thinker. Somebody with agency and insight and intellect. Somebody who is able to think for themselves and make decisions. Which is the exact opposite how somebody detained in a mental health locked ward is treated. I will apologise in advance for if any of my sentiments have offended anyone in the writing of this discourse, but much as I am commited to the wellbeing of my family, so too I am angry at the way I have been manipulated by these so called professionals and their cohort which laps their every step. A prostitute is only a prostitute if she plies her trade, but a liar and bad men remain the same wherever they go. Much analogy can be drawn here to these professions, I shudder to think!

An expert would understand that mental health is not one size fits all. I make no claims to expertise but I was disabled for 10 years by crippling depression caused by haphazard diagnosis and one size fits all treatment because the biomedical model has been elevated to ridiculous authority in the service of obscene profits and a predatory system.

If you think your experience somehow overrules mine, and can't abide the existence of any other methods or ideas, who's really the hater?

 

[john2054]

If you have experienced mental health from the inside storm and others, that gives you just as much an insight and expertise into this condition, certainly YOUR condition, then mine own. What I don't like is all of these people who come on here claiming to have years of graduate/professional experience, and then clearly don't know their bi-polar from their schizoaffectives, that's all okay? x john

 

[Storm]

If you have experienced mental health from the inside storm and others, that gives you just as much an insight and expertise into this condition, certainly YOUR condition, then mine own. What I don't like is all of these people who come on here claiming to have years of graduate/professional experience, and then clearly don't know their bi-polar from their schizoaffectives, that's all okay? x john

Odd, that doesn't describe anyone in this thread. So who were you referring to?

 

[dgirl1986]

If you have experienced mental health from the inside storm and others, that gives you just as much an insight and expertise into this condition, certainly YOUR condition, then mine own. What I don't like is all of these people who come on here claiming to have years of graduate/professional experience, and then clearly don't know their bi-polar from their schizoaffectives, that's all okay? x john

I think people confuse schizoaffective with bipolar because schizoaffective isnt something that is talked about as much as bipolar. My friend was originally diagnosed as bipolar...then schizophrenic, then told it was all in her head, then borderline personality disorder before it was finally realised by someone who was actually good at their job that she is schizoaffective.

Its part of the reason why I am studying to enter the field. Because her journey to this point couldve been cut shorter if people paid attention and listened to her.

 

[john2054]

thanks dgirl, good luck with that?!??

 

[Midnight Rain]

You may wish to try googling phrases like "far from thermodynamic equilibrium", "open systems", or similar terms. "Balance" is antithetical to the dynamics of living systems.

While "balance" may not be the best term there can, however, be aberrant degrees of any given chemical in the brain that lay outside what would be considered the normal functional level. "Balance" is just the colloquial expression for this.

 

[Sapiens]

If you have experienced mental health from the inside storm and others, that gives you just as much an insight and expertise into this condition, certainly YOUR condition, then mine own. What I don't like is all of these people who come on here claiming to have years of graduate/professional experience, and then clearly don't know their bi-polar from their schizoaffectives, that's all okay? x john

It's worth every penny you pay for it.

 

[Lyndon]

From my experience and 30 years of taking medication, the most important medicine I can take for my manic depressive/schitzoaffective disorder is sobriety, complete sobriety. For almost 25 years, I used to be hospitalized 5150 2-3 times a year when I smoked pot, since getting off drugs over 6 years ago, I've only had one hospitalisation 3 1/2 years ago when I tried a little drinking combined with not taking my lithium, haven't touched any drugs or alcohol since, I still need medication to sleep, but I don't even have manic or depressed episodes anymore, don't let any stoner idiot try to convince you that "medical" marijuana helps treat mental illness, its a bold faced lie.

 

[LegionOnomaMoi]

While "balance" may not be the best term there can, however, be aberrant degrees of any given chemical in the brain that lay outside what would be considered the normal functional level. "Balance" is just the colloquial expression for this.

It's not colloquial but sold. See the attached study (France, C. M., Lysaker, P. H., & Robinson, R. P. (2007). The" chemical imbalance" explanation for depression: Origins, lay endorsement, and clinical implications. Professional Psychology: Research and Practice, 38(4), 411.)

I've attached a number of more general studies and reviews in case of yours or anybody's interest.

Also, even if we could measure these levels, we have just as much evidence that they can be changed by changing habits, and we know that MDMA (Ecstasy) works very much like SSRIs (and that Special K is the latest recreational drug that may suddenly become "medicine"). Why are so many controlled substances used to treat mental health problems? Because drugs like many other things (from meditation to lack of sleep to chocolate) alter chemicals in the brain. When we feel happy the pathways implicated as "neural correlates of depression" alter, and when we are sad they likewise alter (and without any measurable difference from clinical depression; there are definitely differences, but levels of neurotransmitters aren't likely to be one). It's been over 30 years since the psychiatric professional community announced that clinical diagnoses in mental health were diseases, and all we've found is evidence that indicates the DSM/ICD classification is wrong and that at best diagnoses are an attempt to cluster arbitrarily what are likely predispositions to a vast number of possible mental health issues (or none) depending upon environment. It's likely that many who are diagnosed have no such predisposition, but the commonalities across so many disorders and mental health problems seems to indicate some underlying biological predilection that may or may not manifest as a mental health problem.

Those suffering from serious, debilitating mental health issues aren't helped by repeated claims that it's a disease (actually this is likely to ensure that therapy is less effective, although it is also likely to increase the efficacy of medication). They are helped by understanding the nature of mental health, not by assuming it (mainly because psychiatry had to switch to a biomedical model) and then continually trying to explain why the evidence just isn't there instead of looking at what the evidence is and what it tells us.

 

[Lyndon]

The one time I took MDMA was one of the most unpleasant experiences of my life, to consider that "therapy" show just how wacked out some of these psychiatric researchers are.

But don't get me wrong, a lot of the so called legitimate prescription medicines for mental illness are totally wacked as well.

 

[apophenia]

First off, a quote from Tom Robbins from 'Even Cowgirls Get the Blues' -

"Simplicity is for simpletons"

There are so many forms of 'mental illness'.

Recently a company released its first research results into a substance named NSI-189. This is a neurotrophic compound - it causes growth of the hippocampus. According to some, this can be a cure for depression, rather than a treatment, because clinical depression strongly correlates with hippocampal hypoplasia or atrophy i.e. a smaller than usual hippocampus. According to claims associated with NSI-189 -both those made by the company Neuralstem who plan to market the compound, and corroborating anecdotal reports concerning behavioural outcomes - this compound can cause the hippocampus to increase in size by something like 20% in a matter of months and effectively end clinical depression for many sufferers. Check out the Longecity forums to explore further ...


Regarding some comments made about drugs/medicines -

Oils ain't oils. Why don't all SSRIs feel the same ? Because that isn't all they do. And - there are two basic ways of raising the levels of nerotransmitters in general -
1. Causing the release of the neurotransmitter into the synapse. Methamphetamine does this - it causes a huge release of dopamine.
To some extent it also does ...
2. Inhibiting the removal of the neurotransmitter from the synapse. This is what SSRIs do. But they don't all do that the same way, nor do they have that and only that effect

Just FYI, check this out -5-HT receptor - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia to get a sense of the complexity behind the 'simple' idea of "it raises serotonin levels" or whatever.

Lots of foods (including "drugs" - which are often very simple foods in my book) affect serotonin levels. Lots of foods affect dopamine levels. There are foods and medicines/drugs/compounds/alkaloids - the 'preferred' term is chosen for specific political reasons, a.k.a." the spin " - which raise or lower both, and various other brain chemicals.

For the record, ecstacy (MDMA) is a form of amphetamine, and raises serotonin, dopamine and oxytocin levels (at least). It is probably the oxytocin aspect which leads to the feelings of connectedness/empathy. Oxytocin is the neurotransmitter associated with breastfeeding, and cuddling etc. So MDMA stimulates a complex cocktail of brain chemicals.

And all of that neuronal stuff is only half of the brain mass anyway. The other half is the glial brain.

We know two thirds of sweet FA about the glial brain, and how it interacts with the neuronal brain. ( btw ... this is not the left and right brain I'm talking about. Left and right brain are both neuronal and glial).

Like any other part of the body, the brain is subject to malformations at birth, and acquired malformations with a range of causes.

It's not simple, folks.

 

[john2054]

Well said.