A "Deep" Question

[74x12]

I'm not accepting that. It shuts too many doors to more profound meanings.

What the Bible reveals is 100% true. But how to understand it? God spoke of things that we may not be able to understand at least until we know more than we do in this earthly body. We're limited in our perceptions if the Bible is true and we don't see all the invisible things God has made and whatever things were eternal(unmade) we also do not know; unless God shows us.

I think the abyss(bottomless water) is real but it is not of this universe. It would be invisible, intangible to us right now. But this universe was created(called forth by God) out of this abyss and was commanded to be firm and exist. This is how the Bible can be literally true when it speaks of the expanse holding back waters from waters. What we know of as the physical and the visible were created from things that are currently invisible to us.

Through faith we understand that the worlds were framed by the word of God, so that things which are seen were not made of things which do appear. (Hebrews 11:3)

I suggest you read the 2nd Book of Enoch(The Slavonic Enoch) chapters 24-30. I find it fascinating the way creation is described here. I'm not saying it should be considered on par with the Bible nor do I even believe that God even truly said these things as the book claims. So take it with a grain of salt. But, it's an interesting take on the Genesis account regardless.

 

[Skwim]

What the Bible reveals is 100% true.

As along as one can cherry-pick and choose.

1CH 3:19 Pedaiah was the father of Zerubbabel.
EZ 3:2 Shealtiel was the father of Zerubbabel.

2KI 24:8 Jehoiachin (Jehoiakim) was eighteen years old when he began to reign.
2CH 36:9 He was eight.

1KI 16:6-8 Baasha died in the 26th year of King Asa's reign.
2CH 16:1 Baasha built a city in the 36th year of King Asa's reign.

1KI 7:15-22 The two pillars were 18 cubits high.
2CH 3:15-17 They were 35 cubits high.

1KI 4:26 Solomon had 40,000 horses (or stalls for horses).
2CH 9:25 He had 4,000 horses (or stalls for horses).​

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[Deeje]

In the beginning God created the heaven and the earth. Next all of a sudden there is a deep and water. Was that part of heaven or earth or both?

Genesis 1:1 "In the beginning God created the heavens and the earth."

I see this as one colossal act of creation, bringing all the material universe into existence in what science calls "the Big Bang".
I see all heavenly bodies in the same condition...raw and new....devoid of anything that could support life.

"2 Now the earth was formless and desolate, and there was darkness upon the surface of the watery deep, and God’s spirit was moving about over the surface of the waters."

The one thing that makes Earth different to all the other planets in our solar system, is water. They call it the Blue Planet for obvious reasons...

There is no other planet like it orbiting our sun. Water was already present in verse 2.

The conditions on Mars are not hospitable to life at all. No water is visible on the surface at all. Though scientists speculate that there is ice. They do not know if it is frozen water because it never melts.
No obvious life is present on any of the other planets either.

The lunar landscape is also desolate and devoid of life.

I see verse 2 as describing a planet completely covered in water, "formless" with no mountains or valleys of any height or depth...just completely immersed in water. "Desolate" can simply mean "empty" since there was no life of any description as yet.

It was dark because no light was yet shining on the surface of the planet, yet the heavens and the earth were created in the same act, meaning that the sun was already in place, just not visible from the earth's surface.....so the first thing God did was to make light from the sun penetrate the cloud layers but it was not completely visible as yet. So on the first day, everything was set, for the events of the next "day" *

"3 Then God said: “Let there be an expanse between the waters, and let there be a division between the waters and the waters.” 7 Then God went on to make the expanse and divided the waters beneath the expanse from the waters above the expanse. And it was so. 8 God called the expanse Heaven. And there was evening and there was morning, a second day."

The whole of the second "day" was devoted to making a separation of the water, creating an "expanse" between the water on earth and water that was held above the earth's atmosphere.

We get an idea of how this was done from the apostle Peter...speaking about those who would ridicule God's worshippers at this time of the end, he said in 2 Peter 3:5-6...

"For they deliberately ignore this fact, that long ago there were heavens and an earth standing firmly out of water and in the midst of water by the word of God; 6 and that by those means the world of that time suffered destruction when it was flooded with water."

This volume of water, capable of flooding the earth again was used in the days of Noah.

In creating a water canopy above the earth, God shielded it from a great deal of radiation from space. It would have also offered the earth a uniform climate, moist and humid and conducive to life. According to Genesis 2:6 a mist watered the surface of the earth.

The third "day" saw oceans and seas divided by dry land appearing out of them, so there must have been a great upheaval in the earth's crust, making deep ocean ravines and causing great mountain ranges and land come up to displace the water.

The first "life" to appear was the vegetation....all accomplished on "day" 3. And so forth.....


* Please note: I do not believe that the creative "days" were 24 hour periods, but rather eons of time with great care in the crafting of everything in each time period.

 

[sandy whitelinger]

You’re right: I was talking specifically about the firmament. I suppose the firmament is just one part of the sky.

And I was reading into things when I assumed that the firmament was a dome; AFAIK, the Bible doesn’t describe its specific shape, only that it’s between Heaven and Earth and holds back “the waters above.”

Right any the firmament separates the after waters above from the waters below, and the sun, the moon and the stars are there. It implies the waters are not in the firmament.

 

[sandy whitelinger]

So

I think at this stage we need to believe in what happened but asking how it took place and then starting to invent postulations will only lead to byzantine debate about a terra incognita. We know God is there and we believe in his true revelation.

So the Bible is fuzzy.

 

[sandy whitelinger]

Genesis 1:1 "In the beginning God created the heavens and the earth."

I see this as one colossal act of creation, bringing all the material universe into existence in what science calls "the Big Bang".
I see all heavenly bodies in the same condition...raw and new....devoid of anything that could support life.

"2 Now the earth was formless and desolate, and there was darkness upon the surface of the watery deep, and God’s spirit was moving about over the surface of the waters."

The one thing that makes Earth different to all the other planets in our solar system, is water. They call it the Blue Planet for obvious reasons...

There is no other planet like it orbiting our sun. Water was already present in verse 2.

The conditions on Mars are not hospitable to life at all. No water is visible on the surface at all. Though scientists speculate that there is ice. They do not know if it is frozen water because it never melts.
No obvious life is present on any of the other planets either.

The lunar landscape is also desolate and devoid of life.

I see verse 2 as describing a planet completely covered in water, "formless" with no mountains or valleys of any height or depth...just completely immersed in water. "Desolate" can simply mean "empty" since there was no life of any description as yet.

It was dark because no light was yet shining on the surface of the planet, yet the heavens and the earth were created in the same act, meaning that the sun was already in place, just not visible from the earth's surface.....so the first thing God did was to make light from the sun penetrate the cloud layers but it was not completely visible as yet. So on the first day, everything was set, for the events of the next "day" *

"3 Then God said: “Let there be an expanse between the waters, and let there be a division between the waters and the waters.” 7 Then God went on to make the expanse and divided the waters beneath the expanse from the waters above the expanse. And it was so. 8 God called the expanse Heaven. And there was evening and there was morning, a second day."

The whole of the second "day" was devoted to making a separation of the water, creating an "expanse" between the water on earth and water that was held above the earth's atmosphere.

We get an idea of how this was done from the apostle Peter...speaking about those who would ridicule God's worshippers at this time of the end, he said in 2 Peter 3:5-6...

"For they deliberately ignore this fact, that long ago there were heavens and an earth standing firmly out of water and in the midst of water by the word of God; 6 and that by those means the world of that time suffered destruction when it was flooded with water."

This volume of water, capable of flooding the earth again was used in the days of Noah.

In creating a water canopy above the earth, God shielded it from a great deal of radiation from space. It would have also offered the earth a uniform climate, moist and humid and conducive to life. According to Genesis 2:6 a mist watered the surface of the earth.

The third "day" saw oceans and seas divided by dry land appearing out of them, so there must have been a great upheaval in the earth's crust, making deep ocean ravines and causing great mountain ranges and land come up to displace the water.

The first "life" to appear was the vegetation....all accomplished on "day" 3. And so forth.....


* Please note: I do not believe that the creative "days" were 24 hour periods, but rather eons of time with great care in the crafting of everything in each time period.

I don't even know where to begin here. How bout we stick to the deep and it's relationship to verse 1.

 

[sandy whitelinger]

As along as one can cherry-pick and choose.

1CH 3:19 Pedaiah was the father of Zerubbabel.
EZ 3:2 Shealtiel was the father of Zerubbabel.

2KI 24:8 Jehoiachin (Jehoiakim) was eighteen years old when he began to reign.
2CH 36:9 He was eight.

1KI 16:6-8 Baasha died in the 26th year of King Asa's reign.
2CH 16:1 Baasha built a city in the 36th year of King Asa's reign.

1KI 7:15-22 The two pillars were 18 cubits high.
2CH 3:15-17 They were 35 cubits high.

1KI 4:26 Solomon had 40,000 horses (or stalls for horses).
2CH 9:25 He had 4,000 horses (or stalls for horses).​

.

All nice points but can we stick to Genesis1? Pretty please.

 

[Deeje]

I don't even know where to begin here. How bout we stick to the deep and it's relationship to verse 1.

Just refer to the first part of my post where I addressed that. I like details so I added some extras......you can leave them out if you find them confusing. Its all one story to me.

 

[sandy whitelinger]

Just refer to the first part of my post where I addressed that. I like details so I added some extras......you can leave them out if you find them confusing. Its all one story to me.

Its not confusing. It's irrelevant. The deep, was it part of heaven, earth or both?
Try and keep it to a paragraph or two if possible.

 

[sandy whitelinger]

Genesis 1:1 "In the beginning God created the heavens and the earth."

I see this as one colossal act of creation, bringing all the material universe into existence in what science calls "the Big Bang".
I see all heavenly bodies in the same condition...raw and new....devoid of anything that could support life.

"2 Now the earth was formless and desolate, and there was darkness upon the surface of the watery deep, and God’s spirit was moving about over the surface of the waters."

The one thing that makes Earth different to all the other planets in our solar system, is water. They call it the Blue Planet for obvious reasons...

There is no other planet like it orbiting our sun. Water was already present in verse 2.

The conditions on Mars are not hospitable to life at all. No water is visible on the surface at all. Though scientists speculate that there is ice. They do not know if it is frozen water because it never melts.
No obvious life is present on any of the other planets either.

The lunar landscape is also desolate and devoid of life.

I see verse 2 as describing a planet completely covered in water, "formless" with no mountains or valleys of any height or depth...just completely immersed in water. "Desolate" can simply mean "empty" since there was no life of any description as yet.

It was dark because no light was yet shining on the surface of the planet, yet the heavens and the earth were created in the same act, meaning that the sun was already in place, just not visible from the earth's surface.....so the first thing God did was to make light from the sun penetrate the cloud layers but it was not completely visible as yet. So on the first day, everything was set, for the events of the next "day" *

"3 Then God said: “Let there be an expanse between the waters, and let there be a division between the waters and the waters.” 7 Then God went on to make the expanse and divided the waters beneath the expanse from the waters above the expanse. And it was so. 8 God called the expanse Heaven. And there was evening and there was morning, a second day."

The whole of the second "day" was devoted to making a separation of the water, creating an "expanse" between the water on earth and water that was held above the earth's atmosphere.

We get an idea of how this was done from the apostle Peter...speaking about those who would ridicule God's worshippers at this time of the end, he said in 2 Peter 3:5-6...

"For they deliberately ignore this fact, that long ago there were heavens and an earth standing firmly out of water and in the midst of water by the word of God; 6 and that by those means the world of that time suffered destruction when it was flooded with water."

This volume of water, capable of flooding the earth again was used in the days of Noah.

In creating a water canopy above the earth, God shielded it from a great deal of radiation from space. It would have also offered the earth a uniform climate, moist and humid and conducive to life. According to Genesis 2:6 a mist watered the surface of the earth.

The third "day" saw oceans and seas divided by dry land appearing out of them, so there must have been a great upheaval in the earth's crust, making deep ocean ravines and causing great mountain ranges and land come up to displace the water.

The first "life" to appear was the vegetation....all accomplished on "day" 3. And so forth.....


* Please note: I do not believe that the creative "days" were 24 hour periods, but rather eons of time with great care in the crafting of everything in each time period.

Trying to relate the Bilical world to the natural world in this manner is fruitless. It's a conundrum at best.
You might be better off suggesting that for brief periods of the universe that God's universe coincided with ours and then separated. Today in his universe he tells Himself (who else is he going to tell) that it's singularity day and he needs to set the stage for a world to be formed. So He enters the early universe, say, the first second and touches about there and says to Himself, "Its formless and void today, but you just wait."
He wakes up tomorrow in his universe and looks at what He's done and says something like, "This bar is dark..."

 

[Srivijaya]

Where was it is located is what I'm asking though

Where exactly would anyone locate the mind of God? High, low, far, near, east, west, above, below? Without a center or a periphery, where is the location?

This recounts the first division of the ultimate into duality - the first step in creation. Water, space, light, earth, fire are all primary elements.

Locations are only possible in complete duality when we, the subject, can contrast and quantify objects.

 

[sandy whitelinger]

Where exactly would anyone locate the mind of God? High, low, far, near, east, west, above, below? Without a center or a periphery, where is the location?

This recounts the first division of the ultimate into duality - the first step in creation. Water, space, light, earth, fire are all primary elements.

Locations are only possible in complete duality when we, the subject, can contrast and quantify objects.

Good golly Miss Molly, the deep I say, we're talking about the deep. Are you saying the deep is the mind of God?
Now dualities. We already had dualities.

 

[David1967]

In the beginning God created the heaven and the earth. Next all of a sudden there is a deep and water. Was that part of heaven or earth or both?

I'm no expert on this, but I have often wondered about it myself. I have heard it taught that this water covered earth was due to the destruction of an earlier earth age.

 

[sandy whitelinger]

Congratulations! You just made the much coveted @Jayhawker Soule ignore list.

I'm honored. Maybe the old coot will stop jaywalking across my threads.

 

[sandy whitelinger]

I'm no expert on this, but I have often wondered about it myself. I have heard it taught that this water covered earth was due to the destruction of an earlier earth age.

Gap theory nonsense.

 

[WalterTrull]

Jeesh guys. A metaphorical attempt to explain the metaphysical universe taken literally is just silly.

 

[David1967]

So, in the beginning there was only the deep. Oh, and God.

Being that the universe is billions of years old, I think it possible that "in the beginning" here is referring to this age. otherwise there would be a whole lot of time before the creation of man.

 

[David1967]

Gap theory

Maybe.

nonsense.

Maybe. But I wasn't there,so....

 

[sandy whitelinger]

Jeesh guys. A metaphorical attempt to explain the metaphysical universe taken literally is just silly.

Sheesh. I'm just trying to figure out how the deep got there and where it existed...using the text. I have no idea what these other guys are doing and it's my thread.

 

[Skwim]

Sheesh. I'm just trying to figure out how the deep got there and where it existed...using the text. I have no idea what these other guys are doing and it's my thread.

Point 5 There is no definitive answer.

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