A few questions for Christians and others interested in commenting

[paarsurrey]

A few questions for Christians and others interested in commenting

(Jesus)Yeshua- the truthful Israelite Messiah ( who was neither a Zealot, nor he belonged to the Zionism people nor to the Judaism people), never claimed to be G-d in first person, it is the Pauline anonymous narratives that have been doctored to be understood as such, please, right?
Bible , I understand, is a doctored Pauline anonymous document not worthy of making anybody a god or son of god, right, please?:

" The New Testament preserves signs of these oral traditions and early documents:[43] for example, parallel passages between Matthew, Mark and Luke on one hand and the Pauline epistles and the Epistle to the Hebrews on the other are typically explained by assuming that all were relying on a shared oral tradition,[citation needed] and the dedicatory preface of Luke refers to previous written accounts of the life of Jesus.[44] The early traditions were fluid and subject to alteration, sometimes transmitted by those who had known Jesus personally, but more often by wandering prophets and teachers like the Apostle Paul, who did not know him personally.[45] "

Historical reliability of the Gospels - Wikipedia

en.wikipedia.org

Right?

Regard

 

[Tinkerpeach]

Then it makes your god look monstrously cruel and wicked because that means he drown 99.9999% of all life on Earth because of wickedness and evil know very well that his flood would fail to do away with wickedness.

Yes He is a vengeful God which is why we need Jesus

 

[metis]

Remember that everything that happens has already been scripted by God.

But that would make God the cause of one sinning? If God did as such, then why punish the sinner?

 

[muhammad_isa]

But that would make God the cause of one sinning?

Yes .. there's often confusion about 'predetermination'.
It appears to imply that G-d has already determined the future..
..but no, it is not so simplistic .. more like G-d is aware of the future.

 

[metis]

Yes .. there's often confusion about 'predetermination'.
It appears to imply that G-d has already determined the future..
..but no, it is not so simplistic .. more like G-d is aware of the future.

Yes, I tend to think the latter is more logical.

 

[Shadow Wolf]

Yes He is a vengeful God which is why we need Jesus

All the more reason to reject him if he's that dangerous that we need a middleman to protect us from the protection racket scheme.

 

[Tinkerpeach]

All the more reason to reject him if he's that dangerous that we need a middleman to protect us from the protection racket scheme.

Well you could raise your fists to a hungry bear also but you are still going to get eaten.

Not sure what rejecting God is gonna do for ya.

 

[Tinkerpeach]

But that would make God the cause of one sinning? If God did as such, then why punish the sinner?

Yes but you are also given free will to stop.

The fact that God already knows what you will do has no bearing on your choice.

 

[metis]

Yes but you are also given free will to stop.

The fact that God already knows what you will do has no bearing on your choice.

Thanks for clarifying your position.

 

[IndigoChild5559]

I mean did the desire for Christian unity come from Constantine's own mind or from God.

Constantine wanted a united Empire. One aspect of that was to not have to deal with Christians killing each other.

 

[paarsurrey]

A few questions for Christians and others interested in commenting

(Jesus)Yeshua- the truthful Israelite Messiah ( who was neither a Zealot, nor he belonged to the Zionism people nor to the Judaism people), never claimed to be G-d in first person, it is the Pauline anonymous narratives that have been doctored to be understood as such, please, right?
Bible , I understand, is a doctored Pauline anonymous document not worthy of making anybody a god or son of god, right, please?:

" The New Testament preserves signs of these oral traditions and early documents:[43] for example, parallel passages between Matthew, Mark and Luke on one hand and the Pauline epistles and the Epistle to the Hebrews on the other are typically explained by assuming that all were relying on a shared oral tradition,[citation needed] and the dedicatory preface of Luke refers to previous written accounts of the life of Jesus.[44] The early traditions were fluid and subject to alteration*, sometimes transmitted by those who had known Jesus personally, but more often by wandering prophets and teachers like the Apostle Paul, who did not know him personally.[45] "

Historical reliability of the Gospels - Wikipedia​

en.wikipedia.org
* doctored by the Paulines, right, and therefore not reliable for most of the times and or all times, please, right??

Right?

 

[Shadow Wolf]

Well you could raise your fists to a hungry bear also but you are still going to get eaten.

Not sure what rejecting God is gonna do for ya.

It's having a clear conscious and not siding with wickedness.

Yes but you are also given free will to stop.

The fact that God already knows what you will do has no bearing on your choice.

If god know what you are going to do then you cannot do anything other than what he knows you will do and thus the choice was only an illusion.

 

[muhammad_isa]

If god know what you are going to do then you cannot do anything other than what he knows you will do and thus the choice was only an illusion.

A mistaken conclusion. i.e. your choice is an illusion
You imply that the reason why we choose what we do, is because G-d knows it.
That is false.

 

[Tinkerpeach]

It's having a clear conscious and not siding with wickedness.

If god know what you are going to do then you cannot do anything other than what he knows you will do and thus the choice was only an illusion.

Can you make a choice to jump up and down right now?

God knows what you will pick but He isn’t forcing you to pick one, that choice is yours.

 

[firedragon]

If god know what you are going to do then you cannot do anything other than what he knows you will do and thus the choice was only an illusion.

This is not a sound argument. God knows what you're gonna do because it has already happened from God's perspective. You have already made the choice, taken your steps, and it's all over because God is a transcended being. He is not a man for time to be 3D.

In mathematics you have the concept of the 4D being to whom time is a line that he observes from above that line and could enter and exit time as he pleases. So if you are a 3D being, and you are inside that time-line, you are still moving through it. The transcended being has already seen it.

The problem is you seeing God as a man inside time.

A 4D being who is not bound by time perceives time as just another dimension, similar to how we perceive spatial dimensions. Unlike us, who experience time linearly (past, present, future), this being can see all moments in time simultaneously. Imagine how a 3D being can see an entire 2D plane at once; similarly, a 4D being sees our entire timeline at once. They are not moving through time but can observe and interact with any point in time as easily as we move through space.

Understand this concept and understand that God is a transcended being to whom time is similar to the above explanation.

Thanks.

 

[Shadow Wolf]

This is not a sound argument. God knows what you're gonna do because it has already happened from God's perspective. You have already made the choice, taken your steps, and it's all over because God is a transcended being. He is not a man for time to be 3D.

In mathematics you have the concept of the 4D being to whom time is a line that he observes from above that line and could enter and exit time as he pleases. So if you are a 3D being, and you are inside that time-line, you are still moving through it. The transcended being has already seen it.

The problem is you seeing God as a man inside time.

A 4D being who is not bound by time perceives time as just another dimension, similar to how we perceive spatial dimensions. Unlike us, who experience time linearly (past, present, future), this being can see all moments in time simultaneously. Imagine how a 3D being can see an entire 2D plane at once; similarly, a 4D being sees our entire timeline at once. They are not moving through time but can observe and interact with any point in time as easily as we move through space.

Understand this concept and understand that God is a transcended being to whom time is similar to the above explanation.

Thanks.

That's just a bunch of made up mental gymnastics that tries to salvage something that is illogical.
It's also bad science. Time and space are one in the same. This is why time (something we do actually perceive, making us 4D beingd) is another dimension of existence and perception. This does mean there is no "it happened already to an independent observer vision but the actor hasn't yet done it." That is illogical. If god knows what we will do we can do nothing other than that, for if we can do otherwise then god does not know what we will do.

 

[muhammad_isa]

If god knows what we will do we can do nothing other than that, for if we can do otherwise then god does not know what we will do.

No .. you mean that we will do nothing other than that .. it's not that we can't, if we had wanted to.

You say "if we can do otherwise then god does not know what we will do"..
That statement is based on the assumption that time is somehow immutable
i.e. time is absolute

..but as Einstein said, 'now' is but a perception, albeit a very convincing one.

 

[RestlessSoul]

That's just a bunch of made up mental gymnastics that tries to salvage something that is illogical.
It's also bad science. Time and space are one in the same. This is why time (something we do actually perceive, making us 4D beingd) is another dimension of existence and perception. This does mean there is no "it happened already to an independent observer vision but the actor hasn't yet done it." That is illogical. If god knows what we will do we can do nothing other than that, for if we can do otherwise then god does not know what we will do.

You are assuming that time is linear and unidirectional, because that is your experience of it. But there are conceptions of time, in both philosophy and physics, where the flow of time is an illusion of subjective human perspective.

 

[RestlessSoul]

.

 

[Shadow Wolf]

No .. you mean that we will do nothing other than that .. it's not that we can't, if we had wanted to

Then free will does not exist.