A few words from the good Dr.

[Daelach]

Does the Initiate understand Setian Philosophy?

I've always been wondering at this one since it is rather simple.. there isn't much to understand. Disagreeing with it, OK, but I don't see how one couldn't understand it.

Can he apply this in his life and demonstrate success?

And at this one, too. I do understand when Satanists demand such things since to them, things like career, wealth etc. are relevant. After all, that's why Lavey sold the priest titles. For reserving them to people who don't care about some bucks for fun. (ok, and for making money - just according to his philosphy himself). But to me, success in life is really subjective. OK, maybe just because I got my life together before even starting with Setianism. If you don't have to worry about how to pay the rent for the appartment this month, this frees up quite a lot of mental ressources.

On the other hand, I've seen people in the occult caring about magic and stuff while not even knowing how to pay the fuel next week. Sort of proof that something is amiss, IMO.

Does the Initiate gain from membership within the Temple?
Does the Temple gain from the Initiate?

That are the two criteria which make most sense, IMO.

Have you considered how your aversion to group thinking, and your beliefs of where that may be applicable within the Temple, without having experienced anything of membership within, could adversely affect your Xeper?

Naturally. Of course it's a choice, but I made my choice because I considered the benefits outweighing the drawbacks. I instead am looking into domains of interest for me, may temporarily join groups for learning stuff, but then leaving for not getting trapped into the group think. Why staying when I have all I wanted? Besides, IMO, it's just not in the Setian nature to stay. Kind of eternal journey or so. Oh, and upon reading the Ruby Tablet, I later realised that this approach is quite common also in the TOS. Exploring stuff, taking what's of worth and leaving (doesn't refer to the TOS but to domains of learning outside). Interesting things don't always come with a Setian label attached to them.. but I'm not telling you news here

Initially, I didn't apply because I didn't see what I might have to offer.. I couldn't imagine an answer to the 4th question. The years passed, and I reached the point where I had plenty of answers for the 4th question.. but not anymore for the 3rd one. Maybe I missed the "right" point where I would have had answers to both questions, focusing too much on the 4th one. (oh, and just in case you're wondering as to how I can say this, never having been member.. I got my information, and that doesn't just refer to the ability to use the web.)

Well, but.. yes, I came to the point of not wanting to continue alone. It's only that my solution was.. let's say, more small-scale, but quality made more than up for the quantity, for me. I found what I had been looking for.. understanding.

 

[MacKinnon]

Yes, success is quite subjective and utterly depends on what the Initiate actually wants to do and achieve.

It's demonstrable by goal-setting, and then putting the work in to achieve the goal. If they put in the work and don't achieve the goal, then it may not be regarded a total failure as they may gain some other insight from the experience that aids their Xeper in another way.

On the otherhand, if they're not doing anything then they can't really be said to be successful except at doing nothing. This is why the Temple is not interested in people who are enthusiastic about the occult, but show no mastery over the mundane aspects of their lives.

Reciting the Qabala by memory isn't that useful in itself, particularly if they can't pay their rent or look after themselves. If on the other hand, they can make a buck by using their knowledge of the Qabala to pay their rent, then that's at least something.

In my experience, the Temple gains in some way from the experience and Work of each of its Initiates. And certainly, I understand your point that it may not be particularly Setian to remain within such a group. And in the past some members have left amiccably after gaining all they could from the Temple, and went on to do their own personal work outside, and this can certainly compliment the Aeon of Set, sort of running parallel to it.

The people who join the Temple and don't get anything from it, in my experience are those who do not engage in Work for themselves, or with others. It's as if they expect simply by merit of being affiliated that they will stumble upon some great wisdom and mastery of black magic. Not so, they discover and leave amicably, or not so amicably and blame the Temple for their lack of progress.

 

[theirreverentconcubine]

It seems that the existence of Set depreciates the necessity of a Temple of Set.

Dr. Aquino has been linked to infamy, discouraging me from formal association with the Temple; which is not meant to be a disparagement. If Setian is classified as a religion, it is the only one I have found to be tolerable.

Perhaps I'll start my own temple someday.

 

[theirreverentconcubine]

Those who insist an atheist has no morality are so far from truth as to be in a parallel universe. Above I made a moral judgement based on the evidence.

KHPR 003: Dr. Michael Aquino, Founder of the Temple of Set

This evidence indicates a disparity beyond experimental error between the public documents and the complete impression of recorded testimony; because I am a moral being, only one contention need be rescinded; I'm no longer discouraged from a potential formal association with Tos.

 

[Adramelek]

The Temple of Set's primary focus Xeper is a metaphysical philosophy, the one thing that makes the Temple a religion is that a good many Setians are convinced in the literal existence of that which is the Prince of Darkness i.e. Set.

Xeper.
/Adramelek\

 

[theirreverentconcubine]

Considering that podcast was an hour of consideration that could have emerged from these lips, yet my experience of Set (as identifier) has been limited to extremely sparse and shallow independent research?

Kinda like coming here to Phoenix from Worcester and going to the locals, you get Sun out here?

For some, agency is a tool of understanding; for me, agency is a tool of limitation. Regardless, the neter Set represents an actual universal quanta.

And as the physical is looking like a subset of the metaphysical these days, there's no rational requirement to insist on empirical evidence from where I sit.

 

[L.Keane]

I'm no longer discouraged from a potential formal association with Tos.

Its amazing how rational thought and honest introspection bring illumination. While I am not you theirreverentconcubine, I can identify with the position indicated in the above quote.

 

[theirreverentconcubine]

Its amazing how rational thought and honest introspection bring illumination. While I am not you theirreverentconcubine, I can identify with the position indicated in the above quote.

Then it is settled. I shall be henceforth Setian/Atheist on this forum and thus removed from the distasteful assumption of (Agnostic)/Atheist that has happened in the past with my designation of atheist. In that manner, I expect the more knowledgeable Setians to offer corrections to my philosophy if I should ever deviate in manner from what is known when posting in this DIR; if they so desire.

Nice avvy, btw. I was actually in the process of sketching a representation of the Set animal and updating my local religious affiliation when reality interfered. (my compy needed attention and I needed sleep)

Since I been on this forum, the vast majority of my time has been in this DIR, with a corresponding investment in time spent in research; assuming a continuation of this paradigm, I expect a formal association may occur with ToS when I return home in February.

 

[Daelach]

I expect the more knowledgeable Setians to offer corrections to my philosophy if I should ever deviate in manner from what is known when posting in this DIR; if they so desire.

Just want to remind you that deviation is an important part of Set. Or, as he put it during a Setian working.. "war on common sense". In an existential way, maybe. Or so.

 

[theirreverentconcubine]

Just want to remind you that deviation is an important part of Set. Or, as he put it during a Setian working.. "war on common sense". In an existential way, maybe. Or so.

I guess that makes you one of the chief deviants 'round here.

Sense is uncommon, and in true deviant style, you are uncommonly sensible.