A good atheist goes to hell, but a bad Christian goes to heaven?

[shoujo15]

A good atheist goes to hell but a really bad christian who says he has repented his sins goes to heaven. Does this seem right to you?

PREPARE FOR A LONG RANT. But READ, I want decent responses, from people who support this belief and people who are against it. ALSO sorry in advance if I offend anyone here, these are my beliefs, and if you can defend yourself with dignity I will respect you. If I've gotten any facts wrong, I'm not a pro on Christianity or other religions. I'm only 16. I realize I'm young, and probably a little ignorant. I don't know all the facts and beliefs. I went to church a few times when I was younger, that's about it. Just please, I'd like some respect and some opinions.

This has always been one of my biggest problems with religion, or at least Christianity.

I'm not exactly atheist, but i believe that until god sends me some sort of telepathic message or revelation and tells me that I MUST believe in Christianity, Buddhism, Judaism, Islam, or some other religion.. I will never really know. I don't believe in blind faith. I need proof, and by that I mean a personal experience.

I was having this conversation with a Christian friend of mine because there was an article on the internet about the pope forgiving CHILDREN who were molested by priests! As if it was their fault! He said they "tempted so many of the church's servants into lustful violation of their holy vows of celibacy." W. T. F. He's blaming the kids, because of course the church's servants are innocent. (sarcasm). Some of these kids were 5, and they probably didn't even know what sex is. That's innocence.

So I asked my friend her opinion. Lets just say... I am an atheist. I'm not exactly, but lets assume I am. And assume I am a good person (you don't know me, so thats why I say assume. Good is an opinion, but I really do believe I am good). I help out in my community, I do my job, I love my family, I get great grades in school, and I care about the world and people. I do my best to be good every day and set appropriate goals for myself.
A priest who molested kids is probably not too good of a person.
Or... how about someone who killed 100 people in a crazy terrorist attack, but says he's Christian and tells God he is sorry and repents.

I said to my friend.. "Who goes to heaven and who goes to hell according to your religion?" And she told me that, since I wouldn't have faith, I would go to hell and the people who committed crimes would go to heaven because they believed in Christianity and God. And then she said I should convert as soon as possible so I don't go to hell, and I rolled my eyes at her -_-.

Does faith really make someone a better person? Because to me, If heaven exists, going to heaven should be for people that are good, not just for people who have faith. They should be forgiven for being rational skeptics, If that is such a horrible crime. If not, then you'll get people that have faith but aren't necessarily good people in heaven! How fair is that?
And what about gay people? If someone is a morally good person, but is gay and Christian and doesn't lie to themselves or repent for the "sin" of being gay, do they go to hell too?
Is being gay or atheist really that bad?
Does it deserve eternal suffering in a realm of evil?

Anyways. I just want thoughts on this. Does it seem morally right to you? If so, why? Or why not?

 

[strikeviperMKII]

It's a very immature definition of faith, one that gets us no where. In fact, its the exact definition that the Pharisees had in Jesus' time, but with a sort of modern flair. Is it right? No. Is it rational? No. Is it fair? No.
Do people actually believe it? Yes.
Is it something you need to worry about? No.
The idea that heaven is somewhere you 'get into' is silly. So don't worry about it.

 

[Tarheeler]

Anyways. I just want thoughts on this. Does it seem morally right to you? If so, why? Or why not?

I'm not really sure about about how heaven and hell work, but I think it is one's actions that determine what happens to the soul, not their beliefs.

 

[ButTheCatCameBack]

I'm not really sure about about how heaven and hell work, but I think it is one's actions that determine what happens to the soul, not their beliefs.

Not what the Bible says...

 

[demonIntegral]

Like most things, it is a matter of reading comprehension. And, it today's world, why read the book when one can watch the movie; in this case, most people I know don't know jack about the Bible. They know what they have been told. They have a minister, or priest, or old man, who always said... yada, yada, yada, burn in hell, yada, yada, yada...

Revelation 21:15 If anyone's name was not found written in the book of life, he was thrown in the lake of fire... Since I'm operating out of the NIV, there's a subheading called "judging the dead..." One might think that, since no Bible ever been thumped like the Book of Revelation; those who do so might have a passing famaliarity with the the words... or not. There's even a note - some may be waiting in Hades. If you have forgotten, that's a Greek place. What's that got to do with the price of admission for a Christian at the pearly gates?

Well, one does not "make a new eligion," that wouldn't be proper. One uses the attributes of the old gods, give them new names - turn titans into gods, turn gods into saints, tell everybody, "don't worry, we're just under new management." Compare the story of Jesus to that of Osiris - maybe it happened, maybe it didn't - but regardless of what happened in the "actual past," if there is such a thing, it was rather convenient having "new gospel," where the words were changed, but the song remained the same. That, my friend, is how a succesful marketing strategy rewrites history.

But some gods are more resistant to change than others. If one were to define a "god" as an environmental effect outside of one's direct interaction, even now, four "gods" fill our pantheon . For this discussion, I'll just mention Helios - keeping to the Greek - or Ra... or, perhaps, the son of god, Jesus Christ? Where do these disparate entities intersect in scripture, and what do they have to do with modern Christians and atheists, and watching TV instead of understanding literature?

With two lines: The fire shall not be quenched, and the worm shall live. What fire? Well, it is (almost) common knowledge that "hell" is the piles of burning refuse traditional to Judeaism; less commonly known, perhaps, is that after the fires bured out, worms would appear (spontaneous generation still qualified as science back then). What if the fire didn't consume the rubbish, and what if the worm could not perish in the flames? Wouldn't that make a nifty receptacle for the "trash" that refused the latest theological updates? Especially when two lines sum up about the entirety of Old Testament "after," with the extent of Jesus's explaination of "after," linking the old with the new?

And the fire in the sky, that burns; and is not consumed? Not Ra... but a sign of an invisible god! The light too bright to see, the burning bush, the rays on the head of Christ... not to be worshipped, but to be feared. That's not god, that's a daily reminder of what happens to those who deny god... prove it otherwise!

Or not. Thing is, even if gospel is, like, gospel; the words from the lips of the apostles are not mine to beat over a reluctant churchgoer's head. It ain't about after, it's about now: and right now, there ain't no hell

 

[Tarheeler]

Not what the Bible says...

You're right; the New Testament definitely says different.

But, then again, I'm not a Christian.

The Torah is not very clear cut on the issue, and rabbis have many differing views on the topic. And some say that good works and righteousness, and not our beliefs, are what determine what happens to us in the World to Come. "Better that they abandon Me, but follow My laws." (from the Talmud) would indicate the same.

 

[fantome profane]

I was having this conversation with a Christian friend of mine because there was an article on the internet about the pope forgiving CHILDREN who were molested by priests! As if it was their fault! He said they "tempted so many of the church's servants into lustful violation of their holy vows of celibacy." W. T. F. He's blaming the kids, because of course the church's servants are innocent. (sarcasm). Some of these kids were 5, and they probably didn't even know what sex is. That's innocence.

That made me curious, so with a quick google I found this.


Pope Forgives Molested Children | The Onion - America's Finest News Source


This is from The Onion, a news satire magazine. Don’t believe everything you read on the internet.

 

[Diederick]

It all depends on what you want to take from the Bible.

 

[Terrywoodenpic]

Since even before Calvin came along, and set things in stone, some Christians have believed that salvation is linked to faith alone.

However many of us prefer James take on things, and that works are the deciding factor.
I would hold that following Jesus Teachings and repentance are the sure road.

 

[islam means peace]

I'm not exactly atheist, but i believe that until god sends me some sort of telepathic message or revelation and tells me that I MUST believe in Christianity, Buddhism, Judaism, Islam, or some other religion.. I will never really know. I don't believe in blind faith. I need proof, and by that I mean a personal experience.

First of all if you want to read the message from Allah (GOD) read the Quran , its the complete message and guidence to menkind from Allah. Allah had send his message to you , now its upto you to read and obey it.

Seconldy, on beliveing Allah you said you need proof. Proofs are infront of you , study how the earth is made , study how teh skyes are made , study your self how you are made , these are thing are enogugh proofs to belive in ALLAH (GOD)
the only thing required is to you to study and try to understand.

And finally , i suggest you to first ignore any thing or belive in your mind and think like you are totally blank minded , so you are not get influded by any person or belive then start thinking How the earth is make, study the making of skyes and ask your self who made it , your heart will tell you that these thing are not created by them self there must be some creater and belive me inshahallah your heart will never speak any like to you , even if something wrong going in your mind your heart will not be in peace with that , once you find the truth your heart will be fell peace.

 

[bobhikes]

You can only do good because of god. If you have lead a good life it was the will of God and by not accepting him you have doomed yourself. All humans are natural sinners without god would only sin.

 

[Terrywoodenpic]

You can only do good because of god. If you have lead a good life it was the will of God and by not accepting him you have doomed yourself. All humans are natural sinners without god would only sin.

what a poor view of mankind.
God does not make us do any thing
we have free will and a concience.
Our actions can never be made up of 100% sin.
jesus has taught us the way to a better life.
we have the choice to follow or not
Nothing is preordained.

 

[Midnight Pete]

A good atheist goes to hell, but a bad Christian goes to heaven?

A bad Christian becomes good again after he repents and asks God to forgive his sins. That's how redemption works.

A good atheist will never repent and consequently will never be redeemed. A good atheist goes to hell. But there are no atheists in the pit.

 

[Renji]

I just don't agree on the idea that a "bad christian" would go in heaven. Being a christian doesn't make someone excused of his immoral or sinful acts then, when he dies, God will forget everything wrong that he have done and allow that person to be in heaven. Surely, I will not allow a criminal, who pretends to be a long lost relative or friend to enter my house.

 

[JustAsking]

A bad Christian becomes good again after he repents and asks God to forgive his sins. That's how redemption works.

A good atheist will never repent and consequently will never be redeemed. A good atheist goes to hell. But there are no atheists in the pit.

This is the problem I have with Christianity. The answer here just doesn't make sense.

Objectively, looking at your statement, it seems that I could be a full out sociopath but as long as I repent and ask God for forgiveness, I will not go to hell. I could quite literally have killed people at random for many years, children, the old, college students, etc, etc, etc, but again, as long as I repent, I'm saved.

On the flip side I could simply not believe, maybe due to life experience and upbringing and it doesn't matter how much good I bring to the world if I don't believe and never repent for any sins, I go to hell?

My take on the situation. Once, a long time ago, " the church" wanted more followers and the best way to do that at the time was to simply tell everyone that if you show up and repent, you're golden. A quick and easy get out of jail free card. One you would be stupid not to take. But if things are really this easy, it seems to breed an attitude against what I would assume and hope to be a happy productive and helpful attitude. Why try hard when you can show up on a Sunday and repent to get into heaven?

It just doesn't make sense to me beyond a marketing tool. At least from my perspective.

Is there some insight you can provide to enlighten me here?

 

[Eliot Wild]

A good atheist goes to hell but a really bad christian who says he has repented his sins goes to heaven. Does this seem right to you?

. . .

Anyways. I just want thoughts on this. Does it seem morally right to you? If so, why? Or why not?

It certainly doesn't seem right to me, but then again, I ain't God. Though, I do have a niece and nephew, both just toddlers, who are absolultely awed and stunned by my deity-like ability to steal their noses right off their faces. Ahh, what power, falsely claimed or not, that we exercise over children, huh.

But, anyway, is it fair that I was born a dirtpoor country redneck into a South Central Kentucky family just one rung above indigency and starvation, forced to undergo a marginal childhood education under the ambivelant tutelage of paycheck teachers, rather than being raised as an American Prince among the Kennedy's?

I, myself, certainly find it grossly unfair.

It seems to me there is an inherent amount of unfairness in the universe. So, why shouldn't there be some in religion as well? People are sometimes born into circumstances that are unfair and morally confusing. Imagine being born into a society and culture where the most sure way to succeed is to violate the law--a law that unjustly favors one race of citizens over another--as was the case during the Jim Crow era South here in the United States. Talk about morally confusing. How is one supposed to even know what is 'morally right' when your God tells you to obey the law of the land, but the law of the land is unjust and oppressive. What do to, what to do?

I suppose my point is this, Christianity seems to be saying that there is a process by which mankind can be 'redeemed' to God, reconnected to Him/Her despite some 'spiritual breach' that separates mankind from the Divine, and despite a certain amount of seemingly arbitrary 'unfairness' in the system. Furthermore, perhaps these things only seem unfair to us from a 'flawed' human perspective. But, anyway, according to the Christians, despite his impurity man is offered a bridge to God. From my point of view, this makes about as much sense as any other hogwash religious balderdash I've encountered. Although, the notion of karma seems to be a bit more practical to me in many ways.

But, nonetheless, here is the 'fair' part about it all: What makes it 'morally right' is that both the Christian and the Atheist, despite how they lived their life and the education they were raised to and the personal experiences they endured, both the atheist and the christian are both equally welcome to accept or reject the proferred 'Salvation'. If we really want to talk about 'unfairness' and things that are 'morally' not right, what about the poor bastadges who are never even exposed to God's message? They really drew the short cosmic stick, huh?


(Disclaimer: the foregoing is in no way intended as an a pointed commentary on the state of public education in America or the quality of teaching professionals, in general. I know there are good teachers and there are bad ones. It's only that I am personally bitter about receiving an education just short of the kind highlighted in that Pink Floyd movie. 'How can you have any pudding if you don't eat your meat?')

 

[no-body]

A bad Christian becomes good again after he repents and asks God to forgive his sins. That's how redemption works.

A good atheist will never repent and consequently will never be redeemed. A good atheist goes to hell. But there are no atheists in the pit.

What a demented, evil God. Lucifer was right to show us the fruit if this is the God we're supposed to blindly follow.

 

[Midnight Pete]

I was having this conversation with a Christian friend of mine because there was an article on the internet about the pope forgiving CHILDREN who were molested by priests

I think that article is from The Onion.

 

[Midnight Pete]

A good atheist doesn't believe in hell. A bad atheist worries about going to hell.

 

[Ram36]

I'm not really sure about about how heaven and hell work, but I think it is one's actions that determine what happens to the soul, not their beliefs.

You are absolutely right it is the weight of the soul that determines your hereafter.