A good atheist goes to hell, but a bad Christian goes to heaven?

[Penumbra]

The dogmatic Christian doctrine that all people, due to not being perfect, are fit only for agony in hell, is sadistic, unethical, and terribly nonsensical.

Under this worldview, a person that, although makes some mistakes, is a generally loving and hard-working person that contributes a lot to his or her community, is deserving of torture.

This deeply unethical and erroneous belief needs to be let go. People that believe this need to improve.

 

[Midnight Pete]

sin is a learned behavior... we "fall" from perfection, gain knowledge of good and evil, and then through the atonement, we can regain an exalted state wiser than we once were.

I agree with this statement but only as it pertains to the individual.

I hold Original Sin to be true and thus sin to be an inherent property of mankind.

 

[Father Heathen]

Honour and integrity have nothing to do with "Jebus juice."

Tell me about it.

 

[McBell]

The Golden Rule is universal. :namaste

Until you meet up with a masochist, or a rapist...
Interesting how you would take this "rule", that was given to a specific people in a specific time for a specific situation, and try so hard to make it some sort of cure all.

 

[Midnight Pete]

Until you meet up with a masochist, or a rapist...
Interesting how you would take this "rule", that was given to a specific people in a specific time for a specific situation, and try so hard to make it some sort of cure all.

The Golden Rule applies at all times and in all places, in all circumstances.

If two masochists were to meet on the road and one of them asked the other to punch him in the face, and he complied, that is the Golden Rule.

 

[McBell]

The Golden Rule applies at all times and in all places, in all circumstances.

Until you meet up with a masochist, or a rapist...
To bad you are much more interested in your strawman than addressing what I actually said.


Your blatant dishonesty is duly noted.

 

[Penumbra]

Depending on how the golden rule is interpreted, it would not necessarily be a problem for a masochist to follow it.

If the masochist reads the golden rule, "Do unto others as you would have them do to you", and says, "I like to feel pain, so I'll inflict pain on others", then obviously there's a problem. If, however, the masochist reads the golden rule and says, "I like it when people treat me the way I like to be treated, so I'll treat people how they want to be treated", then that's great. The masochist realizes that just because he wants to feel pain, not everyone does. He wants to be treated to the various things he likes, and hopefully realizes that the same is true for others.

Basically what it comes down to is common sense. The masochist example, then, doesn't hold much water.

Far more troubling are religious and political ideologies. The golden rule becomes a problem when the follower of the rule believes she or he knows better than other people about what is best for them. A benign example is a parent disciplining a child. The child does not like it, but the parent knows it's for the best. Worse examples are things like, "I'll use violence to ensure Communism spreads because it's the best system for the people." or "America shouldn't have a separation of Church and State because Christianity is the only path to God, and it's best for everyone to be with God."

Regardless, the golden rule is not limited to any single religion. It's popped up in many societies as basic compassionate common sense that works in most cases.

 

[Midnight Pete]

Regardless, the golden rule is not limited to any single religion. It's popped up in many societies as basic compassionate common sense that works in most cases.

That was my original premise.

 

[Mister Emu]

As what, a good atheist?

Yes.

So sipping on Jebus juice is a prerequisite for honor and integrity?

No. I never said that.

For clarity's sake. I do no believe that Christians are good either

 

[Midnight Pete]

For clarity's sake. I do no believe that Christians are good either

All have sinned. All have fallen short of the glory of God.

Christians are just as in need of a Saviour as everyone else, sometimes even more so.

 

[Thesavorofpan]

A good atheist goes to hell but a really bad christian who says he has repented his sins goes to heaven. Does this seem right to you?

PREPARE FOR A LONG RANT. But READ, I want decent responses, from people who support this belief and people who are against it. ALSO sorry in advance if I offend anyone here, these are my beliefs, and if you can defend yourself with dignity I will respect you. If I've gotten any facts wrong, I'm not a pro on Christianity or other religions. I'm only 16. I realize I'm young, and probably a little ignorant. I don't know all the facts and beliefs. I went to church a few times when I was younger, that's about it. Just please, I'd like some respect and some opinions.

This has always been one of my biggest problems with religion, or at least Christianity.

I'm not exactly atheist, but i believe that until god sends me some sort of telepathic message or revelation and tells me that I MUST believe in Christianity, Buddhism, Judaism, Islam, or some other religion.. I will never really know. I don't believe in blind faith. I need proof, and by that I mean a personal experience.

I was having this conversation with a Christian friend of mine because there was an article on the internet about the pope forgiving CHILDREN who were molested by priests! As if it was their fault! He said they "tempted so many of the church's servants into lustful violation of their holy vows of celibacy." W. T. F. He's blaming the kids, because of course the church's servants are innocent. (sarcasm). Some of these kids were 5, and they probably didn't even know what sex is. That's innocence.

So I asked my friend her opinion. Lets just say... I am an atheist. I'm not exactly, but lets assume I am. And assume I am a good person (you don't know me, so thats why I say assume. Good is an opinion, but I really do believe I am good). I help out in my community, I do my job, I love my family, I get great grades in school, and I care about the world and people. I do my best to be good every day and set appropriate goals for myself.
A priest who molested kids is probably not too good of a person.
Or... how about someone who killed 100 people in a crazy terrorist attack, but says he's Christian and tells God he is sorry and repents.

I said to my friend.. "Who goes to heaven and who goes to hell according to your religion?" And she told me that, since I wouldn't have faith, I would go to hell and the people who committed crimes would go to heaven because they believed in Christianity and God. And then she said I should convert as soon as possible so I don't go to hell, and I rolled my eyes at her -_-.

Does faith really make someone a better person? Because to me, If heaven exists, going to heaven should be for people that are good, not just for people who have faith. They should be forgiven for being rational skeptics, If that is such a horrible crime. If not, then you'll get people that have faith but aren't necessarily good people in heaven! How fair is that?
And what about gay people? If someone is a morally good person, but is gay and Christian and doesn't lie to themselves or repent for the "sin" of being gay, do they go to hell too?
Is being gay or atheist really that bad?
Does it deserve eternal suffering in a realm of evil?

Anyways. I just want thoughts on this. Does it seem morally right to you? If so, why? Or why not?

I totally understand where your comming from.
Actually I have a firm belief that none of us is going to Heaven, why? Because were all bad people, even though you say your a good person, you still do bad things like lying or upseting people. Of course you could repent to God and he'll forgive you, but tomorrow your going to do the same thing over and over again. So whether your a bad christian or a bad atheist your still not getting into Heaven and neither am I.

 

[Father Heathen]

I totally understand where your comming from.
Actually I have a firm belief that none of us is going to Heaven, why? Because were all bad people, even though you say your a good person, you still do bad things like lying or upseting people. Of course you could repent to God and he'll forgive you, but tomorrow your going to do the same thing over and over again. So whether your a bad christian or a bad atheist your still not getting into Heaven and neither am I.

Judging by the bible, god himself doesn't meet the standards of goodness and decency.

 

[Thesavorofpan]

Judging by the bible, god himself doesn't meet the standards of goodness and decency.

He must be dellusional then... Or he just has different standards then us.

 

[Father Heathen]

He must be dellusional then... Or he just has different standards then us.

Inconsistent, nonsensical standards.

 

[Thesavorofpan]

Inconsistent, nonsensical standards.

:Shrug: I guess you could say that.

 

[Father Heathen]

:Shrug: I guess you could say that.

I think "goodness" should be gauged by a person's capacity for honor, honesty, reason and compassion, not on a person's ability to blindly and obediently back flip through a bunch of random and arbitrary hoops that were dictated by primitive goat herders.

 

[Penumbra]

Yahweh's character in the Bible makes a pretty good example of how not to act, actually. It's one of the more evil characters imaginable with all of the violence and hatred involved.

If I were to read the Bible without knowledge of what it was, I'd probably assume all along while reading it that Yahweh is the villain rather than the protagonist. In any other context, such a character would be among the most horrid of villains.

 

[Midnight Pete]

Yahweh's character in the Bible makes a pretty good example of how not to act, actually. It's one of the more evil characters imaginable with all of the violence and hatred involved.

If I were to read the Bible without knowledge of what it was, I'd probably assume all along while reading it that Yahweh is the villain rather than the protagonist. In any other context, such a character would be among the most horrid of villains.

Who in your opinion is the "protagonist?"

 

[Penumbra]

Who in your opinion is the "protagonist?"

There isn't quite one, as it's a collection of books rather than a single book. In some, the prophets are the protagonists. In others, Jesus is. Others are not narratives.

A common thread, though is that god is the main character.

And I'm saying that if I were to read these stories in any other context, I'd perceive Yahweh and his gang to be the antagonists. Slaughter rituals, genocide of men, women, and children, wrath, hatred, slavery, torture, deception, etc.