A highly unpleasant dogma

[RJ50]

The version of Christianity which decrees you have to be 'saved/born again' to enter the heavenly idyll is nasty in the extreme! The concept that a very bad person could make a deathbed conversion and go to heaven, whilst a good person who isn't 'saved' supposedly suffers the tortures of hell, is crazy!

Everyone should have the option of attaining heaven, if it exists, should they wish to do so. Those who have been bad whilst on earth might have to earn the right by doing a few millennia of hard labour. But the majority, who are good enough, should be waved past the pearly gates by St Peter!

 

[Revoltingest]

Few religions are about being fair.
God is like the bouncer who let's only beautiful people into the trendy bar.

 

[seeking4truth]

The Quran says that 'Those who believe and do good' will be blessed.

To me it means that these two things are vital. I. to believe that there is a creator for whom we are created. 2. to act in ways that harm no one and benefit ourselves and our fellows in everything we do.

It does not mean that those who do good but don't believe in a creator are condemned to eternal distress but that when they are reborn into the next part of life they will suffer by realising that they have wasted this part of life and have a lot of catching up in understanding to do.

 

[Revoltingest]

The Quran says that 'Those who believe and do good' will be blessed.
To me it means that these two things are vital. I. to believe that there is a creator for whom we are created. 2. to act in ways that harm no one and benefit ourselves and our fellows in everything we do.
It does not mean that those who do good but don't believe in a creator are condemned to eternal distress but that when they are reborn into the next part of life they will suffer by realising that they have wasted this part of life and have a lot of catching up in understanding to do.

Tis a fine example of a god's evil.

 

[Sir Doom]

In my version of the afterlife, everyone gets exactly what they want no matter what. Essentially, everyone goes to 'Heaven'.

 

[4consideration]

In my version of the afterlife, everyone gets exactly what they want no matter what. Essentially, everyone goes to 'Heaven'.

Me too.

I see it as a state of being in which the quality of the love and what you love are exactly where you are.

 

[Walkntune]

The version of Christianity which decrees you have to be 'saved/born again' to enter the heavenly idyll is nasty in the extreme! The concept that a very bad person could make a deathbed conversion and go to heaven, whilst a good person who isn't 'saved' supposedly suffers the tortures of hell, is crazy!

Everyone should have the option of attaining heaven, if it exists, should they wish to do so. Those who have been bad whilst on earth might have to earn the right by doing a few millennia of hard labour. But the majority, who are good enough, should be waved past the pearly gates by St Peter!

Your second statement is a complete contradiction with your first. All fall short and dwell in the ugly judgement humans cast on each other as who is qualified yet Jesus made a way for everyone.

 

[horizon_mj1]

Here is something to consider; Jesus' death was to allow for us to ask for forgiveness, but who is to say that forgiveness will be granted. Religions allow their patrons to be falsely lead into beliefs of complete absolution just for wearing their name tag, but I am pretty sure no Religion is "The" Divine and do way too much speaking for one in whom needs no words to be spoken. It is MPO that for the consideration of forgiveness to be granted, the person asking needs to feel True remorse and embarrassment for their actions in which would assure the occurrence of what needs to be forgiven will not come to fruition again. Another consideration is; Hell is a prison in the 3rd Circle of Heaven; being a prison I would guess that not everyone there will stay for the same amount of time any more than being there for the same exact offense.

 

[Desert Snake]

Your second statement is a complete contradiction with your first. All fall short and dwell in the ugly judgement humans cast on each other as who is qualified yet Jesus made a way for everyone.

Then why worry about doing the right thing?

 

[Walkntune]

Then why worry about doing the right thing?

I agree. Its better to do the right thing because you get to and not because you have to. No sense in worrying.

 

[RJ50]

There was NOTHING perfect about Jesus, if the gospel accounts are a reflection of the guy's personality. He had a bit of charisma, but was a flawed human like the rest of us.

When I die I would prefer to cease to be, heaven doesn't sound very tempting to me!

 

[Ingledsva]

The version of Christianity which decrees you have to be 'saved/born again' to enter the heavenly idyll is nasty in the extreme! The concept that a very bad person could make a deathbed conversion and go to heaven, whilst a good person who isn't 'saved' supposedly suffers the tortures of hell, is crazy!

Everyone should have the option of attaining heaven, if it exists, should they wish to do so. Those who have been bad whilst on earth might have to earn the right by doing a few millennia of hard labour. But the majority, who are good enough, should be waved past the pearly gates by St Peter!

It is exactly these ideas of a "heaven" for only a select group that agrees with the particular religion's DOGMA - and everyone else goes to a "hell," - that tells me these religions are the works of man - not a Deity.

 

[Copernicus]

The version of Christianity which decrees you have to be 'saved/born again' to enter the heavenly idyll is nasty in the extreme! The concept that a very bad person could make a deathbed conversion and go to heaven, whilst a good person who isn't 'saved' supposedly suffers the tortures of hell, is crazy!

Everyone should have the option of attaining heaven, if it exists, should they wish to do so. Those who have been bad whilst on earth might have to earn the right by doing a few millennia of hard labour. But the majority, who are good enough, should be waved past the pearly gates by St Peter!

Religious belief is not based on observation, but faith. Ordinarily, our natural skepticism would override it, so those belief systems that survive skepticism have to promise consequences for belief and non-belief. Heaven was invented to motivate people to retain belief, and hell was invented to motivate them not to abandon it. Those of us who do not adopt the belief system are inconsequential to those who do, unless we are seen as influencing people to abandon it.

 

[cyberman]

Pleinmont,
You have fallen victim to a tautology.
You say you do not like the idea that you have to be 'saved' to go to heaven.
But in this context, the word 'saved' only means 'going to heaven'.
So you are saying you do not like the idea that the only people who are going to heaven are thepeople who are going to heaven.
Different Christians have different ideas about who is 'saved' or how to be 'saved'. Some think you have to be a Christian. Some think that all are 'saved'. Some think you have to do good things. Some think you have to be sorry for your bad things. etc etc.

 

[Falvlun]

There was NOTHING perfect about Jesus, if the gospel accounts are a reflection of the guy's personality. He had a bit of charisma, but was a flawed human like the rest of us.

I'm curious. Which aspects do you think show Jesus to be sinful; or a specific anecdote in the Bible that displays Jesus sinning?

I mean, yes, I'm incredulous too of the claim of a sinless man. But then again, unless there is something specific you can point to, how do you know for sure that he was "as flawed as the rest of us"?

When I die I would prefer to cease to be, heaven doesn't sound very tempting to me!

This sentiment has always perplexed me. The choice between ceasing to exist and existing in a paradise seems like a no-brainer to me.

 

[RJ50]

Pleinmont,
You have fallen victim to a tautology.
You say you do not like the idea that you have to be 'saved' to go to heaven.
But in this context, the word 'saved' only means 'going to heaven'.
So you are saying you do not like the idea that the only people who are going to heaven are thepeople who are going to heaven.
Different Christians have different ideas about who is 'saved' or how to be 'saved'. Some think you have to be a Christian. Some think that all are 'saved'. Some think you have to do good things. Some think you have to be sorry for your bad things. etc etc.

Fancy seeing you on this forum!

 

[Sir Doom]

It is exactly these ideas of a "heaven" for only a select group that agrees with the particular religion's DOGMA - and everyone else goes to a "hell," - that tells me these religions are the works of man - not a Deity.

Why does it tell you that? What is it about deities that would indicate they wouldn't do such things? I've never met any deities myself, so I wouldn't venture to guess what they would or would not do.

 

[Man of Faith]

The version of Christianity which decrees you have to be 'saved/born again' to enter the heavenly idyll is nasty in the extreme! The concept that a very bad person could make a deathbed conversion and go to heaven, whilst a good person who isn't 'saved' supposedly suffers the tortures of hell, is crazy!

Everyone should have the option of attaining heaven, if it exists, should they wish to do so. Those who have been bad whilst on earth might have to earn the right by doing a few millennia of hard labour. But the majority, who are good enough, should be waved past the pearly gates by St Peter!

Define a good person.

 

[RJ50]

The vast majority of the human race are good enough. Yes we have our faults, but compared to the deity, depicted in the Bible, we are prefect!:yes:

 

[Man of Faith]

The vast majority of the human race are good enough.

What percentage? And you still haven't defined what a good person is.