A legal violation of student's dignity and privacy

[SkylarHunter]

I confess that until yesterday I found the discussion of who gets to use the bathroom rather silly. I couldn’t understand how a country that is drowning in debt and has so many other issues to worry about would waste any time and energy talking about such a thing. In Europe that’s not even a subject.

However, yesterday I saw in the news that Obama passed a law saying that schools must allow trans student to use the bathrooms and locker rooms that match their gender identity, and universities should do the same when it comes to sex-segregated campus housing.

Now, that made me look at it in a different way.

I don’t have children, but I imagined for a moment that I had a daughter and that she came home and said “mom, today I changed in front of a boy in the locker room but it’s okay because he thinks he’s a girl.” If this happened to me I would totally freak out.

When did the feelings of a confused boy become more important than the privacy and dignity of all girls at school?

The way I see it, if a trans student has changed gender (as in, has had surgery) and said student has an id card stating the new gender, then that person should be allowed in the bathroom of their gender. No one goes through the ordeal of hormonal treatment + surgery if they are not serious about it.

If students get to decide in their heads their gender identity of the month and all other students have to suck it up, that is abuse.

I don’t believe a girl who thinks she’s a boy would go into the boys locker room because she knows they will bully her and possibly assault her so she’ll stay away. The problem is the other way around. Allowing a boy who thinks he’s a girl (or who pretends to because that might seem fun to him) into the girl’s bathrooms and locker rooms is a violation of the dignity and privacy of those girls.

All of you out there who have daughters, are you comfortable with this? Are you ok with the fact that your little girl has to change her clothes in front of a boy even if she doesn’t want to because it’s the law? Would you be happy to have your teenage daughter using the toilet right next to a boy?

I know I wouldn't have been happy about this when I was at school and I'm glad I never had to endure such a thing.

 

[McBell]

In Europe that’s not even a subject.

yes.
But then, in Europe there does not exist the taboo over nudity like there is in the USA.

 

[Smart_Guy]

Yeah, it is really complicated. I kinda understand how you feel, but then again, in my community we do not have this problem, so I wouldn't know and can't really judge. I just hope transgender people find solutions soon.

 

[fantome profane]

Allowing a boy who thinks he’s a girl (or who pretends to because that might seem fun to him) into the girl’s bathrooms and locker rooms is a violation of the dignity and privacy of those girls.

There are no reports of this actually happening. There has never been a case of someone abusing the any anti-discrimination laws to abuse or harass anyone in the bathrooms. No stories of boys pretending to be girls to get a peak. This is a strange sick Huckabee fantasy. And we need to make policy on what is really happening, not fantasy.

In reality people, real people, really are being discriminated against because they are transsexual. It really is not that complicated.

Just being in the same room with a transsexual person is not a violation of your rights.

I am sorry to tell you this. But this issue is only going to go one way. Transgender people are going to be allowed to use the bathrooms of their choice in public. That is what is going to happen.

 

[Saint Frankenstein]

Transgender people are going to be allowed to use the bathrooms of their choice in public.

...as we've already been doing for decades, anyway.

 

[Mindmaster]

This isn't complicated for me at all. This is Obama's executive order, and this is also unconstitutional.

I believe in tolerance, but I do not believe that social issues should be decided by the President and we should not be putting support for societal fringes into law. To compare, LBG is 5% of the population... T is like 4 in 100,000. You just don't make laws for such small populations without taking it to a public vote. Of course, if it got a vote we all know what the result would be. I think the focus of the school is learning not sexualization, or anything else. This is a complete sidetrack and erosion of our individual rights.

**** this President and his bull**** taking decisions like this from people who deserve to make them. No one appointed him king, and there is a special place in hell for him. I respected him a little bit right up until this week. My change of opinion has nothing to do with trans either. This man is not an American, and the precedent he sets with this type of crap is frightening. What's next? Write in privileges based on skin color? How about your religion?

Yes, this is why you vote on things instead of abusing executive orders. It's so that people get a chance to make these decisions, and those decisions represent what most of us want. Every person, trans or not, should completely revolt against this. This is absolutely terrible in every way!

 

[McBell]

This isn't complicated for me at all. This is Obama's executive order, and this is also unconstitutional.

I believe in tolerance, but I do not believe that social issues should be decided by the President and we should not be putting support for societal fringes into law. To compare, LBG is 5% of the population... T is like 4 in 100,000. You just don't make laws for such small populations without taking it to a public vote. Of course, if it got a vote we all know what the result would be. I think the focus of the school is learning not sexualization, or anything else. This is a complete sidetrack and erosion of our individual rights.

**** this President and his bull**** taking decisions like this from people who deserve to make them. No one appointed him king, and there is a special place in hell for him. I respected him a little bit right up until this week. My change of opinion has nothing to do with trans either. This man is not an American, and the precedent he sets with this type of crap is frightening. What's next? Write in privileges based on skin color? How about your religion?

Yes, this is why you vote on things instead of abusing executive orders. It's so that people get a chance to make these decisions, and those decisions represent what most of us want. Every person, trans or not, should completely revolt against this. This is absolutely terrible in every way!

Awful long speech for 4 in 100,000.....

 

[Subhankar Zac]

You don't have a child but if you did, would you be comfortable seeing bruises on that child's face for being forced to use a boys bathroom where your child was bullied and beaten? Or even possibly raped?

You don't have a child but if you did, would you be okay if you're own child fears you the most, instead of loving you?
Unable to talk to you or share personal thoughts with you?

You don't have a child but if you did, how would you react if you go to your child's room and you see that poor kid hanging from a rope from the ceiling fan? Or body found outside the building covered in blood after jumping off from a 5 storey building?
And in the suicide note, all it said was all what was needed from you was love instead of ignorance.

These are the usual fates of transgender people world wide.
And if you have a kid who's transgender and you still hold on to paranoia instead of a clear understanding of your child's emotions, you'd be his or her first bully and if you still do not open your eyes and bully him or her emotionally, then God forbid, a murderer.
And nothing is more painful than knowing you've driven your child to take his or her own life. Even if others do, if you have remorse in your heart you'll never be able to forgive yourself.

 

[Mindmaster]

Awful long speech for 4 in 100,000.....

The issue isn't even about trans here, it's about wannabe kings and queens. It's about taking away our rights and giving us absolutely no choice.

 

[McBell]

I confess that until yesterday I found the discussion of who gets to use the bathroom rather silly. I couldn’t understand how a country that is drowning in debt and has so many other issues to worry about would waste any time and energy talking about such a thing. In Europe that’s not even a subject.

However, yesterday I saw in the news that Obama passed a law saying that schools must allow trans student to use the bathrooms and locker rooms that match their gender identity, and universities should do the same when it comes to sex-segregated campus housing.

Now, that made me look at it in a different way.

I don’t have children, but I imagined for a moment that I had a daughter and that she came home and said “mom, today I changed in front of a boy in the locker room but it’s okay because he thinks he’s a girl.” If this happened to me I would totally freak out.

When did the feelings of a confused boy become more important than the privacy and dignity of all girls at school?

The way I see it, if a trans student has changed gender (as in, has had surgery) and said student has an id card stating the new gender, then that person should be allowed in the bathroom of their gender. No one goes through the ordeal of hormonal treatment + surgery if they are not serious about it.

If students get to decide in their heads their gender identity of the month and all other students have to suck it up, that is abuse.

I don’t believe a girl who thinks she’s a boy would go into the boys locker room because she knows they will bully her and possibly assault her so she’ll stay away. The problem is the other way around. Allowing a boy who thinks he’s a girl (or who pretends to because that might seem fun to him) into the girl’s bathrooms and locker rooms is a violation of the dignity and privacy of those girls.

All of you out there who have daughters, are you comfortable with this? Are you ok with the fact that your little girl has to change her clothes in front of a boy even if she doesn’t want to because it’s the law? Would you be happy to have your teenage daughter using the toilet right next to a boy?

I know I wouldn't have been happy about this when I was at school and I'm glad I never had to endure such a thing.

To be completely honest with you, i am curious to see if the world will completely fall apart because of this.
I doubt it will, but to listen to some people whine and complain about it, sure sounds like there are those who, just like with same sex marriage and abortion, and Obama getting elected, etc. there seems to be many who like to make mountains out of mole hills.

 

[McBell]

The issue isn't even about trans here, it's about wannabe kings and queens. It's about taking away our rights and giving us absolutely no choice.

What right has been taken away from you because of this "executive order"?

 

[dawny0826]

I confess that until yesterday I found the discussion of who gets to use the bathroom rather silly. I couldn’t understand how a country that is drowning in debt and has so many other issues to worry about would waste any time and energy talking about such a thing. In Europe that’s not even a subject.

However, yesterday I saw in the news that Obama passed a law saying that schools must allow trans student to use the bathrooms and locker rooms that match their gender identity, and universities should do the same when it comes to sex-segregated campus housing.

Now, that made me look at it in a different way.

I don’t have children, but I imagined for a moment that I had a daughter and that she came home and said “mom, today I changed in front of a boy in the locker room but it’s okay because he thinks he’s a girl.” If this happened to me I would totally freak out.

When did the feelings of a confused boy become more important than the privacy and dignity of all girls at school?

The way I see it, if a trans student has changed gender (as in, has had surgery) and said student has an id card stating the new gender, then that person should be allowed in the bathroom of their gender. No one goes through the ordeal of hormonal treatment + surgery if they are not serious about it.

If students get to decide in their heads their gender identity of the month and all other students have to suck it up, that is abuse.

I don’t believe a girl who thinks she’s a boy would go into the boys locker room because she knows they will bully her and possibly assault her so she’ll stay away. The problem is the other way around. Allowing a boy who thinks he’s a girl (or who pretends to because that might seem fun to him) into the girl’s bathrooms and locker rooms is a violation of the dignity and privacy of those girls.

All of you out there who have daughters, are you comfortable with this? Are you ok with the fact that your little girl has to change her clothes in front of a boy even if she doesn’t want to because it’s the law? Would you be happy to have your teenage daughter using the toilet right next to a boy?

I know I wouldn't have been happy about this when I was at school and I'm glad I never had to endure such a thing.

I think that the instances of people blowing this sort of thing way out of proportion outnumbers the number of occurrences where a transgender person invades another's privacy in a locker room or restroom.

I try to process this through the perspective of a transgender, at least to the best of my ability (as I'm not personally, trans).

If I were a trans girl, the LAST thing that I'd want to do is draw additional attention to myself or make others feel uncomfortable. If I were a trans girl and hadn't undergone surgery - male genitalia would be a source of embarassment and pain for me, not something that I'd flaunt to make others feel uncomfortable.

I imagine that transgender women can relate much more to me as a born-woman in many ways than they can, say, my husband.

If people have compassion and care about the realities that the transgender community face, I think that they need to stop looking at those who are transgender as being "other". If one genuinely identifies as per a particular gender, I feel that I owe them the respect of acknowledging that and giving them the benefit of the doubt.

Harassment, invasion of privacy and other concerns that have recently come to light aren't legal or acceptable, regardless as to your gender identity.

 

[9-10ths_Penguin]

I don’t have children, but I imagined for a moment that I had a daughter and that she came home and said “mom, today I changed in front of a boy in the locker room but it’s okay because he thinks he’s a girl.” If this happened to me I would totally freak out.

How would you react if she said: "Mom, today I had to drop my pants in front of the vice principal to prove that I'm a girl, because someone thought I looked like a boy when I was going into the locker room"?

 

[dawny0826]

This isn't complicated for me at all. This is Obama's executive order, and this is also unconstitutional.

I believe in tolerance, but I do not believe that social issues should be decided by the President and we should not be putting support for societal fringes into law. To compare, LBG is 5% of the population... T is like 4 in 100,000. You just don't make laws for such small populations without taking it to a public vote. Of course, if it got a vote we all know what the result would be. I think the focus of the school is learning not sexualization, or anything else. This is a complete sidetrack and erosion of our individual rights.

**** this President and his bull**** taking decisions like this from people who deserve to make them. No one appointed him king, and there is a special place in hell for him. I respected him a little bit right up until this week. My change of opinion has nothing to do with trans either. This man is not an American, and the precedent he sets with this type of crap is frightening. What's next? Write in privileges based on skin color? How about your religion?

Yes, this is why you vote on things instead of abusing executive orders. It's so that people get a chance to make these decisions, and those decisions represent what most of us want. Every person, trans or not, should completely revolt against this. This is absolutely terrible in every way!

I'm a Libertarian and felt the same way, that our President should not have made such an executive order.

However, as a Libertarian, I also respect and value the freedoms and liberties of the transgender community. Their right to act in accordance to their gender identity is as inalienable as my own rights, as per my understanding of the constitution.

It's asinine and a ridiculous power show for our government to be in our bathroom business to begin with.

 

[Mindmaster]

What right has been taken away from you because of this "executive order"?

Liberty is in complete jeopardy here.

Liberty is:

"Liberty literally means freedom. Your constitutional civil liberty to freedom allows you to live your life free of government control. Of course, you have to pay taxes and obey laws. But the government can't force you to take certain actions against your will, in the interest of society at large. It can't tell you that you must vote a certain way. You have the right to make up your own mind about issues, including those that affect the whole country, not just yourself."

Laws are things that we vote on, not just things that wannabe royalty forced onto us from somewhere else. Where exactly was the vote that decided the transgender issues at school should be resolved in this way? That's right... There isn't one.

Not giving people the chance to make up their minds again breaches this, and further deprives them of freedom of will. Forcing them to participate in something that they don't believe in is again another breach of liberty. If they dislike trans they deserve the right to not support it, and also to keep it away from their children. I would support that for any American on the planet even though I personally support LGBT completely. These orders are bad because they completely undermine the basis of our system. If the government no longer represents what the people want as a whole, then it needs to be dismantled.

 

[9-10ths_Penguin]

Liberty is in complete jeopardy here.

Liberty is:

"Liberty literally means freedom. Your constitutional civil liberty to freedom allows you to live your life free of government control. Of course, you have to pay taxes and obey laws. But the government can't force you to take certain actions against your will, in the interest of society at large. It can't tell you that you must vote a certain way. You have the right to make up your own mind about issues, including those that affect the whole country, not just yourself."

Laws are things that we vote on, not just things that wannabe royalty forced onto us from somewhere else. Where exactly was the vote that decided the transgender issues at school should be resolved in this way? That's right... There isn't one.

Not giving people the chance to make up their minds again breaches this, and further deprives them of freedom of will. Forcing them to participate in something that they don't believe in is again another breach of liberty. If they dislike trans they deserve the right to not support it, and also to keep it away from their children. I would support that for any American on the planet even though I personally support LGBT completely. These orders are bad because they completely undermine the basis of our system. If the government no longer represents what the people want as a whole, then it needs to be dismantled.

So you think that your freedom is being curtailed by the fact that you aren't being given the right to vote on whether to curtail someone else's freedoms?

Which of your rights should I be able to vote on in order to preserve "liberty"?

 

[Father Heathen]

[

This isn't complicated for me at all. This is Obama's executive order, and this is also unconstitutional.

I believe in tolerance, but I do not believe that social issues should be decided by the President and we should not be putting support for societal fringes into law. To compare, LBG is 5% of the population... T is like 4 in 100,000. You just don't make laws for such small populations without taking it to a public vote. Of course, if it got a vote we all know what the result would be. I think the focus of the school is learning not sexualization, or anything else. This is a complete sidetrack and erosion of our individual rights.

**** this President and his bull**** taking decisions like this from people who deserve to make them. No one appointed him king, and there is a special place in hell for him. I respected him a little bit right up until this week. My change of opinion has nothing to do with trans either. This man is not an American, and the precedent he sets with this type of crap is frightening. What's next? Write in privileges based on skin color? How about your religion?

Yes, this is why you vote on things instead of abusing executive orders. It's so that people get a chance to make these decisions, and those decisions represent what most of us want. Every person, trans or not, should completely revolt against this. This is absolutely terrible in every way!

Personally, I'm glad that southern citizens didn't have a say in the abolishment of segregation and "Jim Crow" laws. They were declared unconstitutional regardless of what the people wanted. One of the purposes of The Constitution is to protect minority rights from majority rule. What rights are being eroded, exactly? The right to deny other people their rights?

 

[SkylarHunter]

You don't have a child but if you did, how would you react if you go to your child's room and you see that poor kid hanging from a rope from the ceiling fan? Or body found outside the building covered in blood after jumping off from a 5 storey building?
And in the suicide note, all it said was all what was needed from you was love instead of ignorance.

If you think this law is going to help understand transgender people better or love them more, you need a reality check.

I'm not worried about the real trans people (and I insist: people who have actuality changed gender, not the ones who just talk about it). They are very few and most of them don't cause trouble. I'm worried about the ones who are going to pretend to be trans for whatever personal agenda they might have. This law will expose children and teenagers to danger.

 

[Mindmaster]

So you think that your freedom is being curtailed by the fact that you aren't being given the right to vote on whether to curtail someone else's freedoms?

Which of your rights should I be able to vote on in order to preserve "liberty"?

This has nothing to do with their freedoms, it has to do with allowing the precedent of making King Obama the rule of law. Protecting a minority is making sure they aren't discriminated against or abused, and I get that. This has nothing to do with that at all and if it did I'd be 100% behind it, but would still favor votes taking place on the issue instead of someone creating mandates.

@Father Heathen Jim Crow laws were abolished by an act of Congress, and that counts as a vote. We made anti-discrimination laws in the context of national dialogue, and sure the south wasn't supporting it but everyone else was. That's getting a consensus, and what the system is about. Sexual discrimination is already in the law, and last I checked it covers trans people as well.

Discrimination arguments aren't really valid here as other than an impromptu junk check no one is really going to know who the trans and non-trans person are. Use the stall and I haven't the foggiest idea whatsoever thus the whole argument is stupid.

 

[SkylarHunter]

How would you react if she said: "Mom, today I had to drop my pants in front of the vice principal to prove that I'm a girl, because someone thought I looked like a boy when I was going into the locker room"?

Aren't students supposed to have a school card with their details? If the card states their name and gender they shouldn't have to drop their pants in front of anyone to prove anything.