A legal violation of student's dignity and privacy

[Koldo]

I confess that until yesterday I found the discussion of who gets to use the bathroom rather silly. I couldn’t understand how a country that is drowning in debt and has so many other issues to worry about would waste any time and energy talking about such a thing. In Europe that’s not even a subject.

However, yesterday I saw in the news that Obama passed a law saying that schools must allow trans student to use the bathrooms and locker rooms that match their gender identity, and universities should do the same when it comes to sex-segregated campus housing.

Now, that made me look at it in a different way.

I don’t have children, but I imagined for a moment that I had a daughter and that she came home and said “mom, today I changed in front of a boy in the locker room but it’s okay because he thinks he’s a girl.” If this happened to me I would totally freak out.

When did the feelings of a confused boy become more important than the privacy and dignity of all girls at school?

The way I see it, if a trans student has changed gender (as in, has had surgery) and said student has an id card stating the new gender, then that person should be allowed in the bathroom of their gender. No one goes through the ordeal of hormonal treatment + surgery if they are not serious about it.

If students get to decide in their heads their gender identity of the month and all other students have to suck it up, that is abuse.

I don’t believe a girl who thinks she’s a boy would go into the boys locker room because she knows they will bully her and possibly assault her so she’ll stay away. The problem is the other way around. Allowing a boy who thinks he’s a girl (or who pretends to because that might seem fun to him) into the girl’s bathrooms and locker rooms is a violation of the dignity and privacy of those girls.

All of you out there who have daughters, are you comfortable with this? Are you ok with the fact that your little girl has to change her clothes in front of a boy even if she doesn’t want to because it’s the law? Would you be happy to have your teenage daughter using the toilet right next to a boy?

I know I wouldn't have been happy about this when I was at school and I'm glad I never had to endure such a thing.

And yet you didn't feel your privacy and dignity being violated when any random female could see your nudity back then ? How come ?

 

[Mindmaster]

How would you react if she said: "Mom, today I had to drop my pants in front of the vice principal to prove that I'm a girl, because someone thought I looked like a boy when I was going into the locker room"?

Hate to be the smart-***, but this exactly the type of question that would never be asked now. Changing the system invites this type of situation, and it would have never have happened otherwise. Look, let's face it I just don't think the country as a whole is ready to deal with this and forcing it on children is a great way to **** people off. Trans as basically losing any support they had here and things are gonna get much worse. So ask yourself whether these new scenarios help or hurt trans as a whole? I think this demonizes them and makes everything harder for them, personally.

 

[Subhankar Zac]

If you think this law is going to help understand transgender people better or love them more, you need a reality check.

I'm not worried about the real trans people (and I insist: people who have actuality changed gender, not the ones who just talk about it). They are very few and most of them don't cause trouble. I'm worried about the ones who are going to pretend to be trans for whatever personal agenda they might have. This law will expose children and teenagers to danger.

1.2 billion people including children affiliates with the modern day largest shrine of child molesters.
While rarely has been a case as you are referring to has been registered.
And a reality check would be not to choke your children for your personal bigotry.

The US alone has the largest religious denomination as Roman Catholicism. I'd ban those churches before looking inside everyone's underwear, if I was truly concerned about sexual abuse on children.
Not to mention other churches as well.

 

[Mindmaster]

Aren't students supposed to have a school card with their details? If the card states their name and gender they shouldn't have to drop their pants in front of anyone to prove anything.

No one would expect this anyway, it's just rhetoric. My sons had long hair most of their lives, and I assure you that this was never a problem even when they were in the androgynous stage of youth. Much ado about nothing...

The ousting of our civil liberties via Obama's orders is far more important than any other issue.

 

[Mindmaster]

1.2 billion people including children affiliates with the modern day largest shrine of child molesters.
While rarely has been a case as you are referring to has been registered.
And a reality check would be not to choke your children for your personal bigotry.

The US alone has the largest religious denomination as Roman Catholicism. I'd ban those churches before looking inside everyone's underwear, if I was truly concerned about sexual abuse on children.
Not to mention other churches as well.

By creating a rule like this you assure that teachers and school personnel have to look into underwear... Is anyone smart enough to see that? That's why this rule is a problem in a practical sense. The administrators have no way of telling whether you are a trans or not without looking at parts and determining you have the right to be somewhere you normally shouldn't be. Man, this entire concept just boggles my mind. Before it was a non-issue because you are trusted, later it's going to be "you are not trusted" and it must be verified.

People really don't know what they are asking for sometimes.

 

[McBell]

By creating a rule like this you assure that teachers and school personnel have to look into underwear... Is anyone smart enough to see that? That's why this rule is a problem in a practical sense. The administrators have no way of telling whether you are a trans or not without looking at parts and determining you have the right to be somewhere you normally shouldn't be. Man, this entire concept just boggles my mind. Before it was a non-issue because you are trusted, later it's going to be "you are not trusted" and it must be verified.

People really don't know what they are asking for sometimes.

why does anyone need to look into anyone elses underwear?
hells bells, the law says the gender they identity with.
That means the genitalia they physically have are completely irrelevant...

Like I said, mountains out of mole hills.

 

[bobhikes]

I confess that until yesterday I found the discussion of who gets to use the bathroom rather silly. I couldn’t understand how a country that is drowning in debt and has so many other issues to worry about would waste any time and energy talking about such a thing. In Europe that’s not even a subject.

Many societies have not had a problem with male and female nudity. There are many nudist colonies with many women and men today. It just a portion of society believes incorrectly that most men will not be able to control himself if a women is nude around them. The few men that can't control themselves will also be dangerous no matter where you are and what you wear.

 

[dawny0826]

If you think this law is going to help understand transgender people better or love them more, you need a reality check.

I'm not worried about the real trans people (and I insist: people who have actuality changed gender, not the ones who just talk about it). They are very few and most of them don't cause trouble. I'm worried about the ones who are going to pretend to be trans for whatever personal agenda they might have. This law will expose children and teenagers to danger.

Statistically speaking, how often is this occurring?

 

[McBell]

The ousting of our civil liberties via Obama's orders is far more important than any other issue.

Problem is that you have not shown that any civil liberties have been ousted.
You do an awful lot of talking about it, but you hav enot shown it to be true

 

[SkylarHunter]

Statistically speaking, how often is this occurring?

If it happens only once it will already be too much.

 

[McBell]

If it happens only once it will already be too much.

so you think before this order it did not happen and that now with this order it will be a huge problem?

 

[dawny0826]

If it happens only once it will already be too much.

You really didn't answer my question.

 

[McBell]

You really didn't answer my question.

I suspect it was a tongue in cheek claim.

 

[Subhankar Zac]

By creating a rule like this you assure that teachers and school personnel have to look into underwear... Is anyone smart enough to see that? That's why this rule is a problem in a practical sense. The administrators have no way of telling whether you are a trans or not without looking at parts and determining you have the right to be somewhere you normally shouldn't be. Man, this entire concept just boggles my mind. Before it was a non-issue because you are trusted, later it's going to be "you are not trusted" and it must be verified.

People really don't know what they are asking for sometimes.

Actually no.
Unisex bathrooms are still an option.

 

[fantome profane]

If it happens only once it will already be too much.

Has it happened once?

 

[Mindmaster]

Problem is that you have not shown that any civil liberties have been ousted.
You do an awful lot of talking about it, but you hav enot shown it to be true

Ok, so liberty is both ways. You have it and I have it or no one really has it, see? If you put an executive order in that proclaims X you take away the representation of anyone in opposition in one stroke of the pen. Next time, the issue is Y and instead of something you wanted to go in I get something, and again that is enforced without your consent so now you just have to deal. The problem is the precedent that this sets, in that nothing goes to a vote and everything is decided by people who are the most violent, or dangerous to the person holding the pen. We're no longer speaking about anything it's just a damn dictatorship. It doesn't even matter what the issues are anymore because democracy is gone.

The liberties that are ousted are just whoever doesn't agree with the mandate. They never get a choice, and that's why it's screwed up and broken and needs to be reviewed. It doesn't even matter if the order puts forward an apparently good notion or idea.

 

[Ouroboros]

Now, that made me look at it in a different way.

Good points. I didn't even realize Obama was passing this law.

I think what will happen is that schools will have to make individual changing booths and individual bathrooms, and have everything be co-ed. If no one ever have to change or go to bathroom in front of other people, there won't be any conflicts.

 

[Ouroboros]

Has it happened once?

Something like this, I guess: https://www.lifesitenews.com/news/s...laiming-to-be-transgender-in-order-to-assault

Disclaimer: I haven't verified if the story is true or there are any issues with it. Just something I found in response to your question.

 

[Mindmaster]

Good points. I didn't even realize Obama was passing this law.

I think what will happen is that schools will have to make individual changing booths and individual bathrooms, and have everything be co-ed. If no one ever have to change or go to bathroom in front of other people, there won't be any conflicts.

Sounds great, but who is paying for it? That's going to take a massive revamp nationwide.

 

[Koldo]

Sounds great, but who is paying for it? That's going to take a massive revamp nationwide.

If it sounds great then you wouldn't mind paying for it along with everyone else.