A little about my God

[Just_me_Mike]

Glad to hear it. I really am just trying to understand.


So, it's just God's whim and there's nothing we can do?

OK I'll try again.
Yes there is something you can do. You can keep searching for God with an open mind and a sincere desire. It is still God's universe, so we have to keep that in context.

 

[tumbleweed41]

Why are you sorry?

Sorry that people are so scared of death that they feel the need to envision something "better" than this wondrous opportunity at life we have been given.

So it is not the way for you, don't apologize.

Not apologetic, remorse for the "doomed" attitude espoused by many religions.

 

[Storm]

OK I'll try again.
Yes there is something you can do. You can keep searching for God with an open mind and a sincere desire. It is still God's universe, so we have to keep that in context.

OK.

What about atheists?

 

[Just_me_Mike]

Sorry that people are so scared of death that they feel the need to envision something "better" than this wondrous opportunity at life we have been given.

And for the slave or child that dies with no joy is it as wonderous for them?
According to my belief that you demonize, I focus on the fact I am alive and not all the outward things.
It is true we can find life all around us, but to think what we find around us is the prize is to miss reality altogether.
Like I said though, it is not for everyone, but certainly not worthy of your misinformed opinion.

 

[Just_me_Mike]

OK.

What about atheists?

Here we have somewhat of a unique situation.
I am not aware of anyone that has become an atheist without first being exposed to God of some kind.

So here we have a deliberate denial of God. Now what is God going to do with every atheist to exist? I can not say. The reality is one can call themselves whatever they want, in the end they will succumb to God's will if that is what God wants.

A great story in the bible is when Jesus asked who is more thankful? One who is forgiven for more errors or one who is forgiven for few errors.

So to God it can be a beautiful thing to have one who believed in only themselves to begin believing in God.

It is all a beautiful mystery to me. That is all I can really say about it at this time.

 

[tumbleweed41]

And for the slave or child that dies with no joy is it as wonderous for them?

There you have proven that in order to justify pain in this world, you must focus on that "eternal bliss". But you yourself have said that not all will get to enjoy this. So if a person dies with no joy, there is still no guarantee of everlasting life.

According to my belief that you demonize, I focus on the fact I am alive and not all the outward things.
It is true we can find life all around us, but to think what we find around us is the prize is to miss reality altogether.

To acknowledge the wonders of this world is to miss reality? Do you not see the contradiction in what you said?

Like I said though, it is not for everyone, but certainly not worthy of your misinformed opinion.

Ah, I see, you ask for the opinions of others, then belittle them when they do not conform with your own opinions.

 

[Perfect Circle]

We all die, right?
Some old, some young.
Some feel pain, some don't.

What part of that equation gives anyone recourse to curse my God for the way He has chosen to do things?

If after your death, you can go to eternal bliss, why do you think on the finite things of this world as if they matter?

Our children, our loved ones, our enemies, all will die. Science never claimed to have the answers to these things. Science only claims to teach the observable and answer the finite riddles of the universe.

What is the hardest thing to understand about my God?

A little about my God:
My God created an existence for a certain people. Those people will hear His message. There will be many that don't hear his message. Doesn't really matter, both that hear and that don't hear will both die. Since the beginning God has been providing a way for his people to hear his message and find the path to life.
Part of His message is to tell us that we aren't really alive right now. In the sense that we are eternal. Right now we are part of a cycle, a growth. Some to eternal life and some to nothing or death.
His message is that to truly understand life, you have to understand true life is eternal. So what we are seeing now is only an illusion yet real at the same time.
I hope some of you understand this, but if anyone has questions or oppositions I'd like to know.

I have to agree with Storm on this. It just seems unfair and cruel that some people go on to eternal bliss, and others don't. There are simply too many scenarios we can come up with that don't allow for this version of god to be just, imho.

As you stated earlier in the thread, "And for the slave or child that dies with no joy is it as wonderous for them?" What about them? What if that child or slave never hears of god, becomes bitter at the world for their hardships, then dies. Are they not given the gift of eternal bliss? Why didn't god make himself known to them through a clear and concise manner? Why is he all powerful, yet refuses to at least reveal himself to them in some non-ambiguous manner?

If you'd like me to provide more scenarios that, imo, don't allow for this view of god to be benevolent/just, I can provide them. And btw, I'd just like to say that even though I generally disagree with your views, I enjoy reading about them because you seem to be very sincere, empathetic, and thoughtful, and it's reflected in your posts.

 

[Heneni]

Christians are suppose to hope for eternal happiness. I mean that is what god promised us and we hold on to his promises because he is faithful to perform them.

Paul said that we must unswervingly hold on to our hope.

Our hope is not in life, our hope is in god. Who gives life. Eternal life. If he wants to give it, what should we do? Say no thanks. LOL.

''if any man wants to save his life, he will loose it''

''if you want to follow me you must deny yourself''

''If we have hope only in this life we are of all men MOST to be pitied'' (paul speaking)

He said we are the most misserable and most pitiful people if we dont have hope in the afterlife. Paul would have been nuts suffering as he did unless he had hope for eternal life. He would not have spent his life, poured it out as a kind of drink offering, if he thought, its inappropriate to hope for another life to come. A more blessed life.

Our hope is in our god, who raises the dead, who gives life, eternal life. Our hope is in our god to perform his promises. This gives us courage. Its unswervingly hoping in God. If our hope is in this life only we of all people are truly to be pitied! Would paul have fought the beasts of Ephisus if he thought 'hang on...there isnt another life coming...run and save yourself!''

No paul knew there was more to it, and this hope in god he held on with all he had. And it sustained him through a tremendous amount of suffering, which he went through with the promise of eternal life.

To hold on to your life means you dont believe that God is going to give you another. To have hopes and dreams in this life, is to hold on to it. Our hope is not in our hopes and dreams from a human perspective, our hope is in God. The giver of life.

Hope is where your heart is. You heart is where your home is.

This hope that we have in jesus purifies us. It strips us of all worldy ambition and false hopes that only dissapoint.


1 John 3:3

3Everyone who has this hope in him purifies himself, just as He is pure.

Heneni

 

[Just_me_Mike]

There you have proven that in order to justify pain in this world, you must focus on that "eternal bliss". But you yourself have said that not all will get to enjoy this. So if a person dies with no joy, there is still no guarantee of everlasting life.

Instead of ranting why not try to talk? You are doing a whole lot of saying here, but not saying much. You are inferring a whole bunch by knowing very little of what I believe. Am I not entitled the decency to discuss my faith without premature judgment?
You say I have proven something. I have not done any such thing. You are once again implying that I teach some action on our part gets us somewhere. I do not teach or believe that.

To acknowledge the wonders of this world is to miss reality? Do you not see the contradiction in what you said?

I see no contradiction, but someone who is infatuated with the creation instead of the creator. That is your right to do. I am not telling you to do one thing or the other. I of course see the wonders of this world, because they came from a wonderful creator. And?

Ah, I see, you ask for the opinions of others, then belittle them when they do not conform with your own opinions.

You are not giving your opinion, you are slobbering all over mine. If you don't like my opinion, I am OK with that, but so far you have not tried to discuss anything, and instead are posturing defensively for some reason.

 

[Just_me_Mike]

I have to agree with Storm on this. It just seems unfair and cruel that some people go on to eternal bliss, and others don't. There are simply too many scenarios we can come up with that don't allow for this version of god to be just, imho.

I would love to discuss these scenarios, look forward to it.

As you stated earlier in the thread, "And for the slave or child that dies with no joy is it as wonderous for them?" What about them? What if that child or slave never hears of god, becomes bitter at the world for their hardships, then dies. Are they not given the gift of eternal bliss?

You are doing so much assuming here. Rather than judge what you think I might say how about back up a little and let's discuss it.
What about that child who dies with no joy? I am not in a position to say who goes to heaven and who does not. My point in bringing up the child of no joy was to illustrate this life on Earth ((("to me" <---- please note))) is not about the wondrous things around us, but that we find the greater joy of realizing we have been granted life and hopefully to eternal life. That is maybe all that child will experience until they go to heaven. It is not my place to say if they go or not.

So stop saying something that I did not say.

Why didn't god make himself known to them through a clear and concise manner? Why is he all powerful, yet refuses to at least reveal himself to them in some non-ambiguous manner?

Again this statement is based off a premise that God did not make himself known. I did not make that assumption, you did. How am I to know where God shows up or not?

If you'd like me to provide more scenarios that, imo, don't allow for this view of god to be benevolent/just, I can provide them.

I already invited you to do so, up above, so please come with respect and you will get respect.

And btw, I'd just like to say that even though I generally disagree with your views, I enjoy reading about them because you seem to be very sincere, empathetic, and thoughtful, and it's reflected in your posts.

Thank you, I hope to continue our discussion.

 

[nonbeliever_92]

We all die, right?
Some old, some young.
Some feel pain, some don't.

What part of that equation gives anyone recourse to curse my God for the way He has chosen to do things?

If after your death, you can go to eternal bliss, why do you think on the finite things of this world as if they matter?

Our children, our loved ones, our enemies, all will die. Science never claimed to have the answers to these things. Science only claims to teach the observable and answer the finite riddles of the universe.

What is the hardest thing to understand about my God?

A little about my God:
My God created an existence for a certain people. Those people will hear His message. There will be many that don't hear his message. Doesn't really matter, both that hear and that don't hear will both die. Since the beginning God has been providing a way for his people to hear his message and find the path to life.
Part of His message is to tell us that we aren't really alive right now. In the sense that we are eternal. Right now we are part of a cycle, a growth. Some to eternal life and some to nothing or death.
His message is that to truly understand life, you have to understand true life is eternal. So what we are seeing now is only an illusion yet real at the same time.
I hope some of you understand this, but if anyone has questions or oppositions I'd like to know.

I thought you believed that your god was everything?

 

[Just_me_Mike]

I thought you believed that your god was everything?

You'll have to explain that just a bit, because it could mean a bunch of different things.

 

[nonbeliever_92]

OK I understand now. I will try to explain my understanding of God better this time.

To me, everything that exists is part of God, either part of his mind or thought, or somehow connected to him.
Because of this, we can only know we exist because of God, because by this definition if God was not here neither would we be.
It then makes sense to me that if God is the reason I am here I want to know what he is doing and if there is something I should be doing.
I then find more comfort in the God of the bible then from any other God in that I feel secure and as if I have found all the answers to my existence.
This is what God is to me. (I think)

I hope that is a better answer, if not let me know.

you say here that you believe god is everything.

 

[Just_me_Mike]

you say here that you believe god is everything.

OK so it still leaves me as blank as your original post that I said that. What is your point?
Have I contradicted myself?
Thanks.

 

[nonbeliever_92]

OK so it still leaves me as blank as your original post that I said that. What is your point?
Have I contradicted myself?
Thanks.

sorry,
do you believe that everyone and everything is part of your god and do you believe that your god has free control over everyrthing that's a part of him?

 

[Just_me_Mike]

sorry,
do you believe that everyone and everything is part of your god and do you believe that your god has free control over everyrthing that's a part of him?

This seems logical at the moment, Can't think of something this would not apply too.

 

[Perfect Circle]

You are doing so much assuming here. Rather than judge what you think I might say how about back up a little and let's discuss it.
What about that child who dies with no joy? I am not in a position to say who goes to heaven and who does not. My point in bringing up the child of no joy was to illustrate this life on Earth ((("to me" <---- please note))) is not about the wondrous things around us, but that we find the greater joy of realizing we have been granted life and hopefully to eternal life. That is maybe all that child will experience until they go to heaven. It is not my place to say if they go or not.

I apologize if I came off as attacking you, I didn't mean to if I did. I'm not judging you at all, I'm just addressing issues I have with your vision of god. I understand that you're simply expressing your opinions on the subject, but you probably would not have posted it on a religious based internet forum if you didn't want feedback, right?

I understand that you specifically don't propose that you know the rules to get into this everlasting life of bliss, but as far as I understand from your posts, you do believe there are some conditions that have to be met, correct? At least that's what I understood from your flower analogy earlier. (please correct me if I'm wrong) I'm simply saying that whatever set of rules you place on it, I think we could find a number of scenarios that would make those rules seem very cruel or unjust.

So stop saying something that I did not say.

Once again, I apologize if I put words into your mouth, I just understood your posts to mean this.

Again this statement is based off a premise that God did not make himself known. I did not make that assumption, you did. How am I to know where God shows up or not?

It's not based on the assumption that that has happened, per se, but that in this hypothetical scenario I'm giving you, it does.

I already invited you to do so, up above, so please come with respect and you will get respect.

I've only responded to this thread once, and as far as I can tell, I've been pretty respectful...

Thank you, I hope to continue our discussion.

Me too :rainbow1:

 

[Just_me_Mike]

I apologize if I came off as attacking you, I didn't mean to if I did. I'm not judging you at all, I'm just addressing issues I have with your vision of god. I understand that you're simply expressing your opinions on the subject, but you probably would not have posted it on a religious based internet forum if you didn't want feedback, right?

Cool, thanks, and yes I like dialog to go both ways, eventually it comes to a head though.

I understand that you specifically don't propose that you know the rules to get into this everlasting life of bliss, but as far as I understand from your posts, you do believe there are some conditions that have to be met, correct? At least that's what I understood from your flower analogy earlier. (please correct me if I'm wrong) I'm simply saying that whatever set of rules you place on it, I think we could find a number of scenarios that would make those rules seem very cruel or unjust.

The only rules there are is God saves whom he chooses. That's it. So if you want to flesh that out with scenarios of how that is cruel and unjust I am here to discuss, so feel free.

 

[nonbeliever_92]

This seems logical at the moment, Can't think of something this would not apply too.

Do you believe that your god excercises this control over everything within him all the time?

 

[Just_me_Mike]

Do you believe that your god excercises this control over everything within him all the time?

Possibly indirectly, but maybe directly.