a new dir introduction

[jasonwill2]

im bad... i only got an incomplete draft yesterday...

I only got to the spin-0ffs of ONA lit when I got distracted... was just listing off every organizatio nthat i know of xD

Also I agree about that girl that runs spiritualsatanist.com it seemed really off and didnt have a lot of content

I. Satanism in General

II. Views of Satan

A. Atheism
1. Symbolism
2. Archetypes/modes of behavior
B. Theism
1. Monothiesm
2. Polytheism
3. Pantheism/panetheism
4. Duo-Theology
5. Quasi-Gnostics

III. Organizations

A. Church of Satan
B. First Church of Satan
C. Temple of Set
D. Joy of Satan
E. Church of Azazel
F. Synagogue of Satan
G. Temple of Theistic Satanism
H. Temples of Satan
I. Order of Nine Angles
1.


edit: tabs do not work on posts, murdering what should of been a nice looking outline!

 

[Orias]

There are a few redundant things in there but I think it looks good otherwise.

 

[Orias]

I think its best to try and not focus on the "theisms" of Satanism, since the focus of many Satanists is the magical application.

 

[Satans_Serrated_Edge]

Trying to categorize something without a common thread of coherency is doomed to fail. All this **** is windowdressing.

Satanism is walking the walk, doing as the devil did. Antinomian and adversarial praxis vectored to maximize personal autonomy, to destroy morality and conditioned boundaries as He did, in His name.

Whether you see the devil as a personal totem, the ever rolling current of change through destruction and rebirth, or a literal entity is all just form.

 

[Breathe]

II. Views of Satan

A. Atheism
1. Symbolism
2. Archetypes/modes of behavior
B. Theism
1. Monothiesm
2. Polytheism
3. Pantheism/panetheism
4. Duo-Theology
5. Quasi-Gnostics

Where would you put Reverse Christians?

edit: tabs do not work on posts, murdering what should of been a nice looking outline!

What about using indent?

 

[Orias]

Trying to categorize something without a common thread of coherency is doomed to fail. All this **** is windowdressing.

Satanism is walking the walk, doing as the devil did. Antinomian and adversarial praxis vectored to maximize personal autonomy, to destroy morality and conditioned boundaries as He did, in His name.

Whether you see the devil as a personal totem, the ever rolling current of change through destruction and rebirth, or a literal entity is all just form.

This is where Satanism come into play.

 

[Mindmaster]

Where would you put Reverse Christians?


What about using indent?

Heh, I have been at this a long time. As far as I am aware the only 'reverse Christians' are the ones that pretend to be Satanists so they can be saved. I believe in a literal Satan, but I do not believe what the Christians state about it or even believe that figures like Jehovah and Jesus have actually been real at any point. Any apparent blasphemy from me is merely satirical or for aesthetics at this point since one really doesn't need to do so for any purpose than ones own mental health.

Theistic Satanists will debate Pan/Panen/Poly-theism all day, but they will all at least agree on this much:

1) If the stories of the bible are borrowed, and the stories they borrowed from are deemed myths are they not too myths? Satanism is based on facts and experience not some silly blind faith in long dead authors.

2) That point made all other contents, personages, and details probably become questionable at this point without some corroborating evidence. Some of the information in the bible is recorded in other cultures history, but most aren't. Satanists generally refuse to admit unsupported information into their mind other than to formulate a research plan. There are a lot of unchallenged concepts with traditional religion that Satanists are simply oblivious to due to the demand for critical thinking.

3) Concepts such as sin seem unavoidable and thus become meaningless. So a Satanist doesn't register any of these things as being bad so doing them as a means of defiance is irrelevant. Likewise the need to atone or ask for forgiveness is equally irrelevant due to never having felt the guilt in the first place. Because of #1 and #2 mostly any other derived conceptions are fairly suspect as well.

Thus, merely acting in inversion of the bible doesn't make you a Satanist at all to anyone but the Christians. It implies you somehow recognize the message of the bible and choose to rebel, but to acknowledge it as valid removes you from our fold since you turned off your brain right there. You then have the possibility of being saved or something (whatever that means) because the bible was never invalid to you. Satanists don't believe in bibles any more than Christians believe that magic can be used for good purposes.

All Satanism is founded on critical-thought even theistic Satanism. I know that is hard for most people to comprehend, but the minute a blind faith type approach is used you are kicked out of the club. Theistic Satanists understand Satan from an experience process typically and not by trusting what anyone else has told them. Thus it is gnosis or self-knowledge which provides the relationship to the dark divine this is entirely different from the Christian process which largely requires one to take leaps of faith!

 

[Informare]

Fantastic explanation of a somewhat confusing issue Mindmaster

 

[jasonwill2]

Trying to categorize something without a common thread of coherency is doomed to fail. All this **** is windowdressing.

Satanism is walking the walk, doing as the devil did. Antinomian and adversarial praxis vectored to maximize personal autonomy, to destroy morality and conditioned boundaries as He did, in His name.

Whether you see the devil as a personal totem, the ever rolling current of change through destruction and rebirth, or a literal entity is all just form.

Oh look, someone who doesn't care about presenting concise and helpful information.

Where would you put Reverse Christians?

A reverse Christian is still a Christian, not a Satanist, or else one wouldn't put "Christian" in it's name. Though there are duo-theology which is kind of close, but to them Satan is the good guy trying to save everyone from enslavement and Yahweh is some evil egotistical madman god. Oh, and Satan might win the war. But that isn't reverse Christianity per se, more like a religion that uses the general picture of Christian metaphysics but says the rest is complete ********.

 

[Orias]

Jason I don't think thats what SSE was saying.

 

[jasonwill2]

Jason I don't think thats what SSE was saying.

I read the first line and skimmed the rest, and thought he was going somewhere else with it, reading it again I think I see what he's saying.

Still, if he has a better suggestion for a dir introduction, then he can suggest something. However I don't think we should dismiss any one Satanic view simply because of the differences. Satanism is many religions essentially, not just one.

 

[Cassiopia]

Venus Satanas is a complete dolt and doesn't even practice Satanism other than to act like it on her sites so she can make money on newbies. Her site is about selling pole dances and merch. Do some digging on her and you will easily determine she is a Wiccan that likes dark aesthetics especially after watching her videos and comparing to something like JoS or even Vera's site you can see the differences. Pardon me if I don't feel that she counts... Most of the stuff that is useful on her site is plagiarised off other authors . She probably has the most videos, but the content level is low and the information is rather worthless. She also believes Satanism is an umbrella term, and many theistic Satanists do not feel this is a fact. I'm perfectly happy with people tagging their adjective to the word Satanism, but conventionally Satan is in Satanism every other idea is something else. To me Satanism = Theistic Satanism but not because I am one as I thought that a long way before as well when I considered myself an atheist; I even found it troubling to call myself a Satanist when I was in my LaVey period. I've had a few conversations with Venus and trust me when I say she is not the person to take any advice on Satanism from. I don't even think she practices anything in any sense it is merely to sell crap with her cult of (lack of) personality ways. I feel that way mostly because she has an everything and the kitchen sink occult mentality which speaks to me of someone whom hasn't found the core effective methods and is unable synthesize and distil the information. I've been at this awhile and I don't personally use anything she mentions because I know it is worthless overcomplicated CRAP. There is a blog where she herself is saying she doesn't believe Satan as an entity which really takes her out of the theistic club HERE; I apologize for the cat fight ahead but it is typical of her contributions to the cause. A relevant bit:
She not only fails to understand the meaning of the word worship (which simply means: to respect or venerate), but also her views do not make her a theistic Satanist in any sense. Pantheism takes you out of our camp (I have a post on this somewhere) and puts you in line with how neo-pagans such as Wiccans and Druids see things. I would argue that the closest you can get to this and still be a theistic Satanist is panentheism once you go that other way you are merely a Wiccan in drag. Traditional Satanists also don't believe in this 'human created archetype' jazz either so I don't know what crack she is smoking when she calls herself a spiritual Satanist.

I must admit that when I first started to explore Satanism I visited her site several times and, without knowing much more at that stage, found her quite informative and easy to understand. Then I watched a few of her videos and her "limitations" and her agenda soon became clear.
I don't think she is in any sense wiccan. She is just a very eclectic darkish pagan who has stumbled on a way to promote herself and make some money. I kind of admire her business acumen if nothing else.

 

[Orias]

You guys have to realize that most business that operate off of people's belief that they are Satanic are actually not, or have succumb to a weaker line of thought.

I'm not sure if I need to explain any of these weaker lines of thought but, to any learned Satanist or practitioner of the LHP it should be somewhat obvious.

 

[jasonwill2]

I must admit that when I first started to explore Satanism I visited her site several times and, without knowing much more at that stage, found her quite informative and easy to understand. Then I watched a few of her videos and her "limitations" and her agenda soon became clear.
I don't think she is in any sense wiccan. She is just a very eclectic darkish pagan who has stumbled on a way to promote herself and make some money. I kind of admire her business acumen if nothing else.

anyone who tries to profit like that is exploting people. i saw stuff for sale at a church recently. some booklets and hats. i can understand the hats, but booklets for stuff like dealing with cancer? it was 4 dollars...

anyway, rant done.

 

[Orias]

I like hats.

 

[Orias]

I'm starting to question the need of a new DURR, we've managed to keep it active and it is healthy to answer old questions in new ways sometimes. Its all about relativity.

We should just call it, DURR

 

[jasonwill2]

no one reads it anyway, let's just delete it and give a bunch of links or somethign, or just not have one.

all in favor of either,

deleting the DIR intro?

or just replacing it with a bunch of links?

 

[Orias]

Delete nothing.

Were not a bunch of book burners here, well, heh,...we don't burn our own books!

 

[Satans_Serrated_Edge]

@Jasonwill

"Oh look, someone who doesn't care about presenting concise and helpful information."

Just saying..you are not only barking up the wrong tree with your suggestion, you don't even seem to be in the right forest.

No offense but you don't really seem to have the first clue what Satanism is about.

 

[The Sum of Awe]

@Jasonwill

"Oh look, someone who doesn't care about presenting concise and helpful information."

Just saying..you are not only barking up the wrong tree with your suggestion, you don't even seem to be in the right forest.

No offense but you don't really seem to have the first clue what Satanism is about.

I'd have to agree. Sorry, Jason.