A Open Letter To Rosie O Donnell

[Moey]

So what you said was that "ethnic minorities" "shoot each other, deal drugs, make offensive music with as many swear words as they know, make people uncomfortable, bomb people for past injustices and religious orientation."

What does it say about how you really feel that you automaticly thought they meant Black People?

 

[MaddLlama]

What does it say about how you really feel that you automaticly thought they meant Black People?

Actually, it was very clearly implied that's what he was talking about. I don't know any other ethnic minority that was part of American slavery en mass.

 

[lilithu]

Now I just have to realize that the years spent in mental agony and realize I was privileged. That basically all the white people I knew grew up facing the same hardships, including a close friend afraid to live in his own house after being beaten by his stepfather and brother, but he was privileged.

Privilege is always contextual.

I will be the first to admit that I am privileged in some contexts. And I'm oppressed in others. As a heterosexual, I am privileged. I do not have any first hand experience of what it's like to be discriminated against based on sexual orientation, and sometimes I don't automatically see it even tho it's there. I have to rely on compassion from openly listening to the perspective of my queer friends and couple that with the systemic injustice that I can rationally deduce based on a sense of fairness.

But otoh, as a person of color, I do have first hand experience of what it's like to be discriminated against based on race. And some of my queer friends who are white have to rely on compassion from openly listening to my perspective and couple that with the systemic injustice that they can rationally deduce based on a sense of fairness.

At any time, almost any of us could refuse to acknowledge our own privileges, and try to "justify" it by retreating to our own experiences of oppression. It then becomes what a friend refers to as "the Oppression Olympics." "Oh yeah, well I've suffered more than you have."

Recognizing your privilege in some contexts does not in any way detract from the validity of your experiences of oppression in other contexts. We need to understand that if we're ever going to work together to create a more just society for all.

 

[Moey]

I read the whole thread and managed not to assume that's what they meant. I guess I don't read between the lines like some. I like the actual words better.

 

[MaddLlama]

If you had read my post properly you would have seen that I didn't refer to "all black people" nor did I refer to all of any race.

Could you also please tell me at which point in my post you read "I'm too busy feeling sorry for myself to think about someone else", maybe I need some glasses because I have read and re-read and I just can't see it.

I read your posts in this thread several times.

I went back and read them again.

Your post essentially implies that you think in return for abolishing slavery, black people should be content to just sit down, shut up and be quiet. You may not have said "all black people do this" but you did say that "this is what they do with their freedom", and you couldn't be bothered to quantify them in any way.

I know a ton of white people who sell drugs. I know more than my fair share of music groups made of white people who make songs with offensive lyrics. I know a whole lot of white people who make people angry and uncomfortable, and I know of a few white people who have set off bombs.

I still think you're a racist. Calling a spade a spade is one of my favorite hobbies.

 

[MaddLlama]

I read the whole thread and managed not to assume that's what they meant. I guess I don't read between the lines like some. I like the actual words better.

Context and logic are two concepts to keep in mind when reading.

Who did you think we were talking about when you read "slavery" and "America"? The Italians?

 

[Mustard Seed]

What does it say about how you really feel that you automaticly thought they meant Black People?

Moey....please take your head out of the box and take a look around. No one here is screaming "poor black people."
We're simply saying that racism and prejusdism still exits to this day for black people, as well as every other "racial" group in the world. The comment was made to "get over the past" but we're illustrating that the past is still present.
Please read my earlier post, if you have'nt allready, and you will have a better understanding of my opinion.

Thanks, darnell

 

[lilithu]

Because apparently, a black woman getting gunned down by a racist drug war just isn't enough. Rosie O'Donnell committing a few seconds of stupidity is.

Gnomon, I understand that your anger wasn't directed specifically at me. I understand that you are frustrated by all the attention placed on a few seconds of words rather than the real violence that is taking place in society. But I reiterate that this argument isn't really about Rosie. It's about the refusal by some in this thread to even recognize that what she did was wrong. AND THEN to take it further and make the claim that racism is over, etc.

What you are talking about is systemic issues, and systemic issues are hard enough to see. If people can't even recognize that racism still exists, if they can't even recognize it in the mockery of an ethnicity, then how do you expect them to recognize that gang violence is the result of racism or that the disproportionate numbers of african americans on death row is the result of racism?

If people weren't so adamantly denying the persistence of racism, I'm quite certain that those of us on the left with whom you are frustrated would have stopped talking about Rosie long ago. In fact, in the other thread about her, I got the uncomfortable feeling that some people were criticizing her for other reasons.

 

[lilithu]

What does it say about how you really feel that you automaticly thought they meant Black People?

First of all, who are you referring to when you say "they"? MaddLlama and I were responding specifically to DarkPenguin.

If it reveals anything, it reveals what we think of the poster.

 

[lilithu]

you have a big chip on your shoulder,obviously...lm sorry for having an opinion,according to you. yours is the only one that matters. seems to me, people like you spend their time just waiting for whites to "slip up" so you can pounce on them.

Wow, that's a lot of fear going on there.

 

[gnomon]

My apologies to jamaesi and lilithu.

Upon reflection I realize I'm somewhat obsessed with the prison system and the drug war and somewhat project my anger over the issue towards others. It's uncalled for and not productive. I still have some disagreement but upon reflection it's not enough of a disagreement to warrant my behavior.

I suffer from recurring bouts of foot in mouth disease.

I think I'll just bow out of this particular thread, too late to do so gracefully, but only with honest humility.

 

[ker crypter]

Wow, that's a lot of fear going on there.

No fear, l dont label people but you seem to label me racist.lm not...l think people are too sensitive these days, l mean everyone nomatter what color they are....

 

[lilithu]

No fear, l dont label people but you seem to label me racist.lm not...

lol! Yes, fear. I wasn't accusing you of being a racist. I was accusing you of refusing to acknowledge racism when it is present.

Yes, the two are related to each other, since denial of racism allows racism to continue, but it certainly isn't so simple as calling you a racist. sheesh.

 

[Moey]

Moey....please take your head out of the box and take a look around. No one here is screaming "poor black people."

I never said you were.

I just hope everyone in here realizes that discrimination doesn't only apply to people who have colored skin.

 

[lilithu]

I just hope everyone in here realizes that discrimination doesn't only apply to people who have colored skin.

The topic of this thread is an Asian American's response to Rosie's "ching chong" bit. Therefore we are talking about discrimination based on the color of one's skin.

If the topic of the thread were about the lack of equal rights for BGLT people and posters started talking about the discrimination that people faced on the basis of sexual orientation, how would you feel if I came in and said, "I just hope everyone in here realizes that discrimination doesn't only apply to people who are queer."?

Believe it or not, sometimes it's not about you.

 

[Moey]

If the topic of the thread were about the lack of equal rights for BGLT people and posters started talking about the discrimination that people faced on the basis of sexual orientation, how would you feel if I came in and said, "I just hope everyone in here realizes that discrimination doesn't only apply to people who are queer."?

I would agree but, believe it or not I was not refering to GLBT. I was actually trying to convey that those of us that are white can sometimes feel discriminated against because we are white. I wasn't thinking about me specificly. I wasn't even going off topic. You assumed I was. But hey, only your opinion matters right?

 

[lilithu]

I would agree but, believe it or not I was not refering to GLBT. I was actually trying to convey that those of us that are white can sometimes feel discriminated against because we are white.

Then I was giving you more credit than I should have.

How do you feel about the statement "Those of us who are straight can sometimes feel discriminated against because we are straight?"

 

[Moey]

Then I was giving you more credit than I should have.

What's that supposed to mean?

I would say that you have a right to have those feelings and then I might even ask you why you feel that way.

 

[Scuba Pete]

It's the rare racist that sees themselves as one. It's the rare person who has no racial prejudices. When these are pointed out for us, it's always best to reflect on their truth rather than lashing out at some injustice, real or imagined.

Rosie was clearly wrong and only an apology would really suffice.

 

[lunamoth]

I did not read this whole long thread but did watch the Open Letter clip, and Rosie's clip that showed what she said.

The Open Letter was fantastic! And I focus on what that young man did as well...that her mistake was pointed out (apparently) but instead of listening to that she tried to defend her offenisive joke. Only human, and I don't know what happened after this, if she ever admitted it was wrong, offensive, in very poor taste. I hope she came to her senses and apologized.

My two daughters are Chinese and right now they would be too young to understand any of that and why it was a hurtful remark. Someday we will face that, the first time some kid makes a mean comment about her race, or she hears someone tell a "joke" like Rosie did and she identifies with the object of the joke. It's coming. I'm trying to prepare them by teaching them forgiveness, but also that they do not have to let such things go by unchallenged or, heaven forbid, accept them as tolerable.