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A personal relationship with God

H

Humanistheart

Well-Known Member
TheKnight said:
God is the source of all Life and therefore only He has the right to determine where Life flows and who are its recipients. We can only try our best to become as close to Him as possible. However, we must remember that we are not Him and therefore are not in any position to determine who lives or dies, who possess what or who doesn't, etc etc. We can only do our best to emulate Him in the ways that we can and constantly try to improve ourselves.
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So, by your logic if I gained the ability to created life any life I created, sentient or not, would be forced to worship me or pay any ridicullous penalty I felt like impossing on them? That's rather sad. I soppose ethics don't factor in here.
 
TheKnight

TheKnight

Guardian of Life
Humanistheart said:
So, by your logic if I gained the ability to created life any life I created, sentient or not, would be forced to worship me or pay any ridicullous penalty I felt like impossing on them? That's rather sad. I soppose ethics don't factor in here.
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I didn't say anything about worship or penalties. I'm simply saying that if God is supplying life in a constant flow to all living beings for free. And it is His life that He owns that He is giving away for free, then He has every right to stop that flow when He chooses. After all, He didn't even have to give it in the first place.

For instance, your neighbor comes to you and says "I need electricity, can I set up my electric system in my house so that it uses your electricity?" and you say "Sure buddy."

At any point after that, you are free to stop letting him use your electricity. Even if he didn't do anything. Why? Because you own the electricity. You pay for it. And that is your right as a property owner.
 
H

Humanistheart

Well-Known Member
TheKnight said:
I didn't say anything about worship or penalties. I'm simply saying that if God is supplying life in a constant flow to all living beings for free. And it is His life that He owns that He is giving away for free, then He has every right to stop that flow when He chooses. After all, He didn't even have to give it in the first place.


For instance, your neighbor comes to you and says "I need electricity, can I set up my electric system in my house so that it uses your electricity?" and you say "Sure buddy."

At any point after that, you are free to stop letting him use your electricity. Even if he didn't do anything. Why? Because you own the electricity. You pay for it. And that is your right as a property owner.
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Taking back a 'gift' when one's displeaded is called an indian giver. Also your analogy is flawed, as no one asked for life, but rather had life forced upon them. I'd rather not be born than have a crappy unbearable life as many in this world do. That seems more of a curse than a gift. Who said it was okay for this 'god' to do this? To create sentient life then take it away when displeased? What gives this god of yours the right?
 
TheKnight

TheKnight

Guardian of Life
Humanistheart said:
Taking back a 'gift' when one's displeaded is called an indian giver. Also your analogy is flawed, as no one asked for life, but rather had life forced upon them. I'd rather not be born than have a crappy unbearable life as many in this world do. That seems more of a curse than a gift. Who said it was okay for this 'god' to do this? To create sentient life then take it away when displeased? What gives this god of yours the right?
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His power to do it gives Him the right. If I have a computer, and I turn it on which supplies it with electricity and the ability to function, is it wrong for me to turn off my computer once I'm done (which will in essence mean that my computer will "stop living")?

Similarly, if God creates and constantly sustains all life, is it wrong for Him to cease that constant sustenance?
 
McBell

McBell

Admiral Obvious
TheKnight said:
His power to do it gives Him the right. If I have a computer, and I turn it on which supplies it with electricity and the ability to function, is it wrong for me to turn off my computer once I'm done (which will in essence mean that my computer will "stop living")?

Similarly, if God creates and constantly sustains all life, is it wrong for Him to cease that constant sustenance?
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So you have reduced your deity to a "might makes right" tyrant?
Way to go!!
 
B

brittanyalmberg

New Member
Humanistheart said:
This is primarily directed to christians and the generally held belief that one can have a personal relationship with christ, however if you feel this applies to your god as well by all means express it. My question is do you expect to have a personal relationship with god? Why or why not? If yes, than what, if any, biblical passages promote this belief for you (or any other holy book applicable to your religion)? Also, how do you define personal relationship, and if you feel you have one with your diety of choice how do you know this?
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I not only expect to have a personal relationship, I thoroughly enjoy a personal relationship with God. God created man to be in relationship with Him...it's our purpose for being. We were created to worship God (1 Corinthians 10:31 31So whether you eat or drink or whatever you do, do it all for the glory of God.).

I would define personal relationship as following: personal-individual, pertaining to me as a being, relationship-emotional or other connection or involvement.

Therefore, my personal relationship is an individual connection I have with God.

As for the last question (how do you know), my answer is in your question...I feel it. I feel it with every breath I take, every word I speak. It's not something that can be explained with statistics or experiments or "proof." John 20:29 says "Blessed are those who have not seen and yet believe."

I hope I covered everything...sorry if I missed something.
 
Evee

Evee

Member
Mestemia said:
So you have reduced your deity to a "might makes right" tyrant?
Way to go!!
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I wouldn't say it's "might makes right," simply that "might makes might."

It's G-d's place to give life and take it away, and it's OUR place to tell Him when He's ticked us off. That's the fundamental basis for the phrase "personal relationship." G-d does things. If I like them, I thank Him. If I don't, I pray He'll fix it, or, in the case of death, help me to deal.

For a religious person, the very definition of "right" comes from G-d. What makes G-d right is the fact that He's G-d. Things that are "right" are things of which G-d approves. And if G-d didn't approve of it, He obviously wouldn't be doing it!

I DO have a personal relationship with G-d, though not through Jesus. That means that when I pray to Him, He hears me. Even if I don't hear Him call me back, I have faith that He's heard my prayer. He'll do whatever He wants, of course, since that's His place as G-d, but I think He's glad to see me fight for what I want. If it didn't please Him to see us struggle to become more like Him (without being Him, obviously), to recieve our daily "comment card" rating the service, the atmosphere and the quality of the food, then He wouldn't have created a world in which we could. Plain and simple.
 
JustWondering

JustWondering

Jerk
TheKnight said:
Is it really might makes right? Are you a tyrant every time you unplug your computer?
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My computer doesn't have feelings. Even if I wanted to I could not inflict horrible suffering on my computer if it does not function as I want it too. Human beings on the other hand ARE sentient beings with feelings and can experience horrible suffering.

Consider, there are people who don't think twice about neglecting/inflicting harm on animals that do not act as they want them too. I knew a guy once who said he left a saucer of anti-freeze out for stray cats to drink because he did not want them in his yard. I guess that is ok, right? Man was given dominion over the earth so we can do as we like to animals. They are only stupid animals after all. Surely they don't feel pain or suffer like we do. As we are like animals to God he can inflict horrible suffering on us for whatever reason he chooses and it is just fine. We are only stupid animals to God.
 
TheKnight

TheKnight

Guardian of Life
JustWondering said:
My computer doesn't have feelings. Even if I wanted to I could not inflict horrible suffering on my computer if it does not function as I want it too. Human beings on the other hand ARE sentient beings with feelings and can experience horrible suffering.

Consider, there are people who don't think twice about neglecting/inflicting harm on animals that do not act as they want them too. I knew a guy once who said he left a saucer of anti-freeze out for stray cats to drink because he did not want them in his yard. I guess that is ok, right? Man was given dominion over the earth so we can do as we like to animals. They are only stupid animals after all. Surely they don't feel pain or suffer like we do. As we are like animals to God he can inflict horrible suffering on us for whatever reason he chooses and it is just fine. We are only stupid animals to God.
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Dying isn't horrible suffering.

Besides, my point is the concept of giving and taking. If I have my water hose flowing water onto my grass and then I decide to turn the water off and cease watering my grass, I have not behaved immorally or inflicted intense suffering on my grass.

The same is true concerning God's relation to us and our lives.
 
JustWondering

JustWondering

Jerk
TheKnight said:
Dying isn't horrible suffering.

Besides, my point is the concept of giving and taking. If I have my water hose flowing water onto my grass and then I decide to turn the water off and cease watering my grass, I have not behaved immorally or inflicted intense suffering on my grass.

The same is true concerning God's relation to us and our lives.
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So if God decides to kill you or one of your loved ones slowly and painfully with cancer your cool with it. I believe it is stated in the bible that God created evil. Funny how God can kill and torture on a whim and it is okay but noone else is allowed to or else their punished. Does God enjoy inflicting pain on others? He's pretty good at it. He stays in practice after all.
 
TheKnight

TheKnight

Guardian of Life
JustWondering said:
So if God decides to kill you or one of your loved ones slowly and painfully with cancer your cool with it. I believe it is stated in the bible that God created evil. Funny how God can kill and torture on a whim and it is okay but noone else is allowed to or else their punished. Does God enjoy inflicting pain on others? He's pretty good at it. He stays in practice after all.
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Am I cool with it? Not at all. I'm not supposed to be. However, the fact that I don't like it is not sufficient evidence to logically decide that God is malevolent. Logical decisions aren't based on "like and don't like" but on a sense of "this is and that isn't."
 
JustWondering

JustWondering

Jerk
TheKnight said:
Am I cool with it? Not at all. I'm not supposed to be. However, the fact that I don't like it is not sufficient evidence to logically decide that God is malevolent. Logical decisions aren't based on "like and don't like" but on a sense of "this is and that isn't."
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Creating death and pain then inflicting them on billions of people seems pretty malicious to me.
 
JustWondering

JustWondering

Jerk
TheKnight said:
It's supposed to seem malicious. It's supposed to make us upset and angry. However, that doesn't necessarily mean that God is malevolent.
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I've heard the "this suffering is for our own good" thing before. What possible "higher" purpose is served from a child slowly and painfully dying from some horrible disease?

I'm sorry but if there is a God anything like what is described in the bible he is a saddistic, psychopathic jerk.
 
JustWondering

JustWondering

Jerk
TheKnight said:
There is a reason most likely. But we don't know what it is. The point is for us to be angry that people suffer. Not to lose our belief in God though.
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I hope your God is nothing more than an ancient fairy tale used to scare people. Which is most likely the case. If not he is one tyrannical, saddistic, and insecure SOB.
 
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