A proposed solution for Young Earth Creationism

[TagliatelliMonster]

Hogwash.
All wrong behavior starts in the mind and heart.

Again, the heart pumps blood.
The heart has nothing to do with it.

The brain, sure, that's where behavior starts.
But if thoughts don't result in action / behavior, then nothing immoral (or moral) has happened.

So no. Morality is all about behavior.

But it will bear fruit. If the inner man is corrupt, he will exhibit this in one way or another even if it's only an attitude.

This is just meaningless abstract drivel.

 

[TagliatelliMonster]

Why do you drive the speed limit?

To ensure the safety of others and to not get speeding tickets.

Sure, on roads where I know I will get away with it AND where I know I don't endanger anybody else, I will happily drive faster then the limit. And enjoy it as well. I love speed!

On the flip side, if I'm on a road where the speeding limit is, let's say, 70 km/h and I feel that going over 60 wouldn't be safe anymore (either for myself or for others), I will be staying under 60.

Pay all your taxes?

Because that's how we can afford roads, schools, health care, fire departments, etc.
And sure, also because I must.

Funny footnote: I'm not "rich", but I certainly make more then the average. I can't complain. The other day I was talking with a politician and complaining about the tax system in Belgium. I think the system as it is now is unfair because people don't really pay in proportion to what they have - at least not after you get past a certain boundary of wealth. So for the rich, it's peanuts while for the poor, it's a lot of money.

At first the politician was annoyed thinking "another poor guy who wants to pay less taxes". And then he realized that if a system like I was proposing would be installed, I would actually be paying MORE then what I'm paying now.

Speak the truth all the time and live the same way in secret as when you’re being watched?

No clue what you're talking about here.

 

[Wildswanderer]

Yes it does, as morality is all about social structure and contracts.
Morality is about how you treat others.

But there's no reason to treat them in any certain way, except as it benefits me, unless there's a higher authority that says otherwise.

 

[Valjean]

Lol, your whole assumption here is that you know better than God.
Obviously if it's the best of all possible worlds then a world without free will be worse.

Judging from the evil done over the centuries in the name of various Gods, human ethics seems like a distinct improvement. At least human morality has some rhyme and reason to it.

 

[TagliatelliMonster]

But there's no reason to treat them in any certain way, except as it benefits me, unless there's a higher authority that says otherwise.

Perhaps you should conduct an experiment to put that ridiculous statement to the test.

Grab a baseball bat.
Go outside and just start randomly hitting people in the face.

Then, after you get your a$$ whooped by bystanders and get out of jail, then come back here and tell me who punished you for your behavior. Your "higher authority", or your fellow humans.


PS: why is it, that you require a "higher authority" to tell you to be nice to people for you to find a reason to be nice to people, while I don't?

 

[ElishaElijah]

The first 4 have nothing to do with morals and everything with Jawhe's psychological insecurity, pettyness and jealousy.

Really? It’s not moral to honor your parents?

 

[ElishaElijah]

No clue what you're talking about here.

People have a Facebook image and who they really are. The true measure of a person is who they are when no one is watching or in private.

 

[Polymath257]

But there's no reason to treat them in any certain way, except as it benefits me, unless there's a higher authority that says otherwise.

All that tells me is that you lack a true moral sense. It seems you need to be told what is right and what is wrong as opposed to understanding how your actions affect others and caring about the results.

Have you ever heard of Kohlberg's stages of moral development? Maybe you should look at them and think about what they say.

Kohlberg's Stages of Moral Development

 

[Polymath257]

Really? It’s not moral to honor your parents?

That depends on whether they deserve to be honored. Too many people have children but aren't really parents. They don't deserve respect.

 

[ElishaElijah]

That depends on whether they deserve to be honored. Too many people have children but aren't really parents. They don't deserve respect.

So it’s ok to disrespect people?

 

[Polymath257]

People have a Facebook image and who they really are. The true measure of a person is who they are when no one is watching or in private.

Agreed. And that includes how they would act if they didn't believe in an authority that would punish them.

 

[Polymath257]

So it’s ok to disrespect people?

Yes. People who do not deserve respect because of their actions exist in abundance.

For example, I have no respect for Donald Trump or for anyone who justifies the attack on the Capitol on Jan 6.

 

[ElishaElijah]

For example, I have no respect for Donald Trump or for anyone who justifies the attack on the Capitol on Jan 6.

I’ve heard the media and Democrats say that Donald Trump justified an attack on the Capitol where some people dressed like Trump supporters instigated, filmed and sold their video and a unarmed female got killed. Yes I’ve heard a lot of false things but haven’t heard Donald Trump justify an attack on the Capitol.

 

[Valjean]

Like I said I believe everyone has a moral compass and that compass comes from God. Do you know the moral teachings of the Bible? We could start with the 10 Commandments, are they immoral?

How do you know it comes from God, rather than natural selection of a pro-social trait?

The Commandments?
The first three are just assertions of authority. The forth is an oddly reasoned, inconvenient exercise to honor God's authority. The fifth is an oddly justified command to honor one's parents no matter what sort of miscreants they are. The rest seem legitimate, pro-social commands.

So three are just vainglorious self promotion; the forth is problematic and its claimed purpose senseless. The fifth's a demand for a weekly exercise in submission -- which is almost universally ignored. The parameters of the sixth are decided by man. The next three seem reasonable for this type of social order, and the tenth condemns a thought-crime that's already been dealt with by the eighth.

But don't Christians claim all the 613 Old Testament commandments were obviated by Christ's "fulfillment?"Why do you bring them up?

 

[Valjean]

Really? Most people are inherently selfish. Especially if they have no moral code that is passed down to them through a belief system.

Are they? I think most have an innate moraIity, and how much of this selfishness is learned?

 

[Wildswanderer]

Perhaps you should conduct an experiment to put that ridiculous statement to the test.

Grab a baseball bat.
Go outside and just start randomly hitting people in the face.

Then, after you get your a$$ whooped by bystanders and get out of jail, then come back here and tell me who punished you for your behavior. Your "higher authority", or your fellow humans.


PS: why is it, that you require a "higher authority" to tell you to be nice to people for you to find a reason to be nice to people, while I don't?

Well you just proved my point. In this case the higher authority is the law.
And how would it benefit me to randomly smack people with a bat, anyway? However, you see this kind of behavior quite often today if there's no consequences.
You also see people shooting rival gang members. Because of the perception that it benefits them, by making them look tough or elevating them to a higher position in the group.
Take away the authority and you see many people acting in violent ways, and others encouraging them.

 

[Wildswanderer]

Are they? I think most have an innate moraIity, and how much of this selfishness is learned?

Selfishness doesn't have to be learned ....that comes natural. Every baby is selfish.

 

[Wildswanderer]

All that tells me is that you lack a true moral sense

Why would I if morality is inherent to humans?

 

[Valjean]

But there's no reason to treat them in any certain way, except as it benefits me, unless there's a higher authority that says otherwise.

Spoken like a true sociopath, who sees everything in terms of self-interest. Not all of us need a divine threat or promise to behave ourselves.
Maybe it's a good idea you're a God-fearing Christian.

 

[Valjean]

Selfishness doesn't have to be learned ....that comes natural. Every baby is selfish.

...and becomes more altruistic as s/he matures.