ElishaElijah
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That’s your view, my view and experience is totally different than that. I know Him
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A proposed solution for Young Earth Creationism
- Thread starter an anarchist
- Start date
BilliardsBall
Veteran Member
Yes, you mentioned it and I looked it up. I don't see how it supports a young earth ─ the evidence for the age of the sun and earth is strong and consistent. So as the Wikipedia article in effect says, the question is, how has Earth remained in the Life Is Possible band for so long? And as you can read in the article, there are some thoughtful hypotheses and encouraging results. One of science's many works in progress.
The bible is full of bad science which I dare say was in its day the best available. They thought the earth was flat and immovably fixed, that the heavens went round it, and that the sky was a solid dome you could walk on and to which the stars were affixed such that if they came loose they'd fall to earth. If memory serves, I gave you some of the relevant quotes in the bible, but if not, let me know and I'll dig them up.
And this helps your case how?
Given the actual evidence of liquid water on both the Earth and Mars, it is clear that both planets were fairly warm 4 billion years ago.
if the sun was substantially cooler, that simply means there was a greenhouse type situation at work in both places. The alternative is that we don't fully understand the mechanisms involved in the generation of energy by the young sun. Both seem to be valid points.
But neither comes anywhere close to supporting a young Earth. The evidence is *still* of an Earth that is 4.5 billion years old. And that is at least a factor of 100,000 off from the tens of thousands of years expected by YEcs.
ecco
Veteran Member
That would have been me.
So, Jews are too dumb to tell they can just cook the shellfish. Old covenant - New covenant = We (the guys trying to start a new religion) don't like some of the nonsense rules He made up for the Jews.
You've shown nothing. Do you really expect me to "search out the different Covenants"? If you can show your god didn't "oops, I need to change those rules because they were ridiculous" then it is your burden to find and show them.
Your attempt at humor doesn't relieve you of the burden to support your argument.
Telling people they need to kick their wives out of the house isn't letting people choose. Perhaps you have some other examples.
ecco
Veteran Member
Out of all that, you just pick up one little part where I provide another example of people rationalizing.
I guess that was my mistake. I certainly didn't intend to give you a rationale to ignore the rest of my post.
ElishaElijah
Return
I do know the Covenants and why they were different for the times/ people, if you don’t want to search those out fine with me. I’ve been reminded many times that you all know the scriptures already and it would come accross as preaching so if you want to have a one on one conversation we can probably do that or not.
ecco
Veteran Member
That's a nice try at another cop-out.
However, you've been on RF since January. I'm sure I'm not the first person to tell you that it is the responsibility of the person making the argument to support their position. It's not my job to support your argument.
ElishaElijah
Return
Not asking you to, I thought you understood the Scriptures
tas8831
Well-Known Member
Scripture like Hosea 13:16.
tas8831
Well-Known Member
So Scripture is malleable, like maybe 'situational'... Got it.
ElishaElijah
Return
I told my son he couldn’t have ice cream but could have the candy bar instead.
I told my daughter she could have the ice cream and not the candy bar.
If my son had the candy bar and my daughter had the ice cream?
Or if my son had the ice cream and my daughter had the candy bar?
Is the food the issue?
ecco
Veteran Member
It's your argument. Support your case. It's not about my understanding, it's about yours.
ElishaElijah
Return
When Adam and Eve sinned and disobeyed God it showed a lack of Trust in God, Satan basically said God was withholding something from them and couldn’t be trusted.
Now as you can see the Israelites in the wilderness are given commands and laws, will they trust God and obey Him and receive the promised land and blessings?
““Every commandment which I command you today you must be careful to observe, that you may live and multiply, and go in and possess the land of which the Lord swore to your fathers. And you shall remember that the Lord your God led you all the way these forty years in the wilderness, to humble you and test you, to know what was in your heart, whether you would keep His commandments or not. So He humbled you, allowed you to hunger, and fed you with manna which you did not know nor did your fathers know, that He might make you know that man shall not live by bread alone; but man lives by every word that proceeds from the mouth of the Lord. Your garments did not wear out on you, nor did your foot swell these forty years. You should know in your heart that as a man chastens his son, so the Lord your God chastens you. “Therefore you shall keep the commandments of the Lord your God, to walk in His ways and to fear Him. For the Lord your God is bringing you into a good land, a land of brooks of water, of fountains and springs, that flow out of valleys and hills; a land of wheat and barley, of vines and fig trees and pomegranates, a land of olive oil and honey; a land in which you will eat bread without scarcity, in which you will lack nothing; a land whose stones are iron and out of whose hills you can dig copper. When you have eaten and are full, then you shall bless the Lord your God for the good land which He has given you. “Beware that you do not forget the Lord your God by not keeping His commandments, His judgments, and His statutes which I command you today, lest—when you have eaten and are full, and have built beautiful houses and dwell in them; and when your herds and your flocks multiply, and your silver and your gold are multiplied, and all that you have is multiplied; when your heart is lifted up, and you forget the Lord your God who brought you out of the land of Egypt, from the house of bondage; who led you through that great and terrible wilderness, in which were fiery serpents and scorpions and thirsty land where there was no water; who brought water for you out of the flinty rock; who fed you in the wilderness with manna, which your fathers did not know, that He might humble you and that He might test you, to do you good in the end— then you say in your heart, ‘My power and the might of my hand have gained me this wealth.’ “And you shall remember the Lord your God, for it is He who gives you power to get wealth, that He may establish His covenant which He swore to your fathers, as it is this day. Then it shall be, if you by any means forget the Lord your God, and follow other gods, and serve them and worship them, I testify against you this day that you shall surely perish. As the nations which the Lord destroys before you, so you shall perish, because you would not be obedient to the voice of the Lord your God.”
Deuteronomy 8:1-20 NKJV
This Law was a Tudor to lead them to Christ after Jesus came He instituted a New Covenant.
Therefore He who supplies the Spirit to you and works miracles among you, does He do it by the works of the law, or by the hearing of faith?— just as Abraham “believed God, and it was accounted to him for righteousness.” Therefore know that only those who are of faith are sons of Abraham. And the Scripture, foreseeing that God would justify the Gentiles by faith, preached the gospel to Abraham beforehand, saying, “In you all the nations shall be blessed.” So then those who are of faith are blessed with believing Abraham. For as many as are of the works of the law are under the curse; for it is written, “Cursed is everyone who does not continue in all things which are written in the book of the law, to do them.” But that no one is justified by the law in the sight of God is evident, for “the just shall live by faith.” Yet the law is not of faith, but “the man who does them shall live by them.” Christ has redeemed us from the curse of the law, having become a curse for us (for it is written, “Cursed is everyone who hangs on a tree”), that the blessing of Abraham might come upon the Gentiles in Christ Jesus, that we might receive the promise of the Spirit through faith. Brethren, I speak in the manner of men: Though it is only a man’s covenant, yet if it is confirmed, no one annuls or adds to it. Now to Abraham and his Seed were the promises made. He does not say, “And to seeds,” as of many, but as of one, “And to your Seed,” who is Christ. And this I say, that the law, which was four hundred and thirty years later, cannot annul the covenant that was confirmed before by God in Christ, that it should make the promise of no effect. For if the inheritance is of the law, it is no longer of promise; but God gave it to Abraham by promise. What purpose then does the law serve? It was added because of transgressions, till the Seed should come to whom the promise was made; and it was appointed through angels by the hand of a mediator. Now a mediator does not mediate for one only, but God is one. Is the law then against the promises of God? Certainly not! For if there had been a law given which could have given life, truly righteousness would have been by the law. But the Scripture has confined all under sin, that the promise by faith in Jesus Christ might be given to those who believe. But before faith came, we were kept under guard by the law, kept for the faith which would afterward be revealed. Therefore the law was our tutor to bring us to Christ, that we might be justified by faith. But after faith has come, we are no longer under a tutor.”
Galatians 3:5-25
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ElishaElijah
Return
@ecco
So God demonstrates His love towards us and proves to us He can be trusted, He wasn’t holding anything back because He gave His Son to die for us.
“Therefore, having been justified by faith, we have peace with God through our Lord Jesus Christ, through whom also we have access by faith into this grace in which we stand, and rejoice in hope of the glory of God. And not only that, but we also glory in tribulations, knowing that tribulation produces perseverance; and perseverance, character; and character, hope. Now hope does not disappoint, because the love of God has been poured out in our hearts by the Holy Spirit who was given to us. For when we were still without strength, in due time Christ died for the ungodly. For scarcely for a righteous man will one die; yet perhaps for a good man someone would even dare to die. But God demonstrates His own love toward us, in that while we were still sinners, Christ died for us. Much more then, having now been justified by His blood, we shall be saved from wrath through Him. For if when we were enemies we were reconciled to God through the death of His Son, much more, having been reconciled, we shall be saved by His life. And not only that, but we also rejoice in God through our Lord Jesus Christ, through whom we have now received the reconciliation. Therefore, just as through one man sin entered the world, and death through sin, and thus death spread to all men, because all sinned— (For until the law sin was in the world, but sin is not imputed when there is no law. Nevertheless death reigned from Adam to Moses, even over those who had not sinned according to the likeness of the transgression of Adam, who is a type of Him who was to come. But the free gift is not like the offense. For if by the one man’s offense many died, much more the grace of God and the gift by the grace of the one Man, Jesus Christ, abounded to many. And the gift is not like that which came through the one who sinned. For the judgment which came from one offense resulted in condemnation, but the free gift which came from many offenses resulted in justification. For if by the one man’s offense death reigned through the one, much more those who receive abundance of grace and of the gift of righteousness will reign in life through the One, Jesus Christ.) Therefore, as through one man’s offense judgment came to all men, resulting in condemnation, even so through one Man’s righteous act the free gift came to all men, resulting in justification of life. For as by one man’s disobedience many were made sinners, so also by one Man’s obedience many will be made righteous. Moreover the law entered that the offense might abound. But where sin abounded, grace abounded much more, so that as sin reigned in death, even so grace might reign through righteousness to eternal life through Jesus Christ our Lord.”
Romans 5:1-21 NKJV
So this is what the Bible teaches and what I believe and why I don’t see God as an angry God but loving, generous and merciful.
So God demonstrates His love towards us and proves to us He can be trusted, He wasn’t holding anything back because He gave His Son to die for us.
“Therefore, having been justified by faith, we have peace with God through our Lord Jesus Christ, through whom also we have access by faith into this grace in which we stand, and rejoice in hope of the glory of God. And not only that, but we also glory in tribulations, knowing that tribulation produces perseverance; and perseverance, character; and character, hope. Now hope does not disappoint, because the love of God has been poured out in our hearts by the Holy Spirit who was given to us. For when we were still without strength, in due time Christ died for the ungodly. For scarcely for a righteous man will one die; yet perhaps for a good man someone would even dare to die. But God demonstrates His own love toward us, in that while we were still sinners, Christ died for us. Much more then, having now been justified by His blood, we shall be saved from wrath through Him. For if when we were enemies we were reconciled to God through the death of His Son, much more, having been reconciled, we shall be saved by His life. And not only that, but we also rejoice in God through our Lord Jesus Christ, through whom we have now received the reconciliation. Therefore, just as through one man sin entered the world, and death through sin, and thus death spread to all men, because all sinned— (For until the law sin was in the world, but sin is not imputed when there is no law. Nevertheless death reigned from Adam to Moses, even over those who had not sinned according to the likeness of the transgression of Adam, who is a type of Him who was to come. But the free gift is not like the offense. For if by the one man’s offense many died, much more the grace of God and the gift by the grace of the one Man, Jesus Christ, abounded to many. And the gift is not like that which came through the one who sinned. For the judgment which came from one offense resulted in condemnation, but the free gift which came from many offenses resulted in justification. For if by the one man’s offense death reigned through the one, much more those who receive abundance of grace and of the gift of righteousness will reign in life through the One, Jesus Christ.) Therefore, as through one man’s offense judgment came to all men, resulting in condemnation, even so through one Man’s righteous act the free gift came to all men, resulting in justification of life. For as by one man’s disobedience many were made sinners, so also by one Man’s obedience many will be made righteous. Moreover the law entered that the offense might abound. But where sin abounded, grace abounded much more, so that as sin reigned in death, even so grace might reign through righteousness to eternal life through Jesus Christ our Lord.”
Romans 5:1-21 NKJV
So this is what the Bible teaches and what I believe and why I don’t see God as an angry God but loving, generous and merciful.
Tiberius
Well-Known Member
Well, that's how it comes across.
People have pointed out to you the errors and contradictions they see in the Bible, and you tell them there are no such errors. However, when those people tell you they find your claim that the Bible is error free are unconvincing, you respond in a way that suggests you think they haven't understood what you said, and that you are somewhat frustrated with them. You don't seem to be considering that maybe they understood perfectly what you said, they just disagree with you.
ElishaElijah
Return
Have you and I had that kind of conversation? It really depends on the person. I don’t mind people disagreeing, I do hope to end those with some sort of mutual understanding though.
Tiberius
Well-Known Member
I don't know if I've had that conversation with you. I do know I've had it many times with many people.
They usually resort to an argument that essentially means, "You just have to have faith that the things that appear to be contradictions aren't really contradictions at all."
And, in my opinion, if you have to rely on faith to justify having faith, then the faith isn't worth much.
ElishaElijah
Return
I’ve observed that faith has different meanings for people and sometimes the way the word
Faith is used is equivalent to wishful thinking, presumption, baseless. For example A person could say I have faith that I’m going to get a car or a house for free. I would ask did God tell you that because if He didn’t then it’s presumption. God has to speak and a person has to hear God speak before they can have faith. When God speaks and makes a promise to a person then they can either believe God and act on what He said (this would demostrare this person has faith) or that person can say I don’t believe God (this would demonstrate they don’t believe God) this would be unbelief or lack of faith.
rational experiences
Veteran Member
Evolution of planet earth as stated by a human thinking.
To teach young children human by an adult human.
First you own life by human parent chosen sex. Your parents human are meant to teach you human survival on earth. Status teaching taken over by your science preaching brother.
Egotists human. I know it all. Be like me and not survive as I teach you how to destroy earth mass and it's gases by non acceptance of natural Only.
Actually.
First human science law. I am human. I live on a planet men named as earth. Evolution is none of my business if you want to survive as a human teaching a young human how to survive.
First law. You are a human observing first every other natural body. Real science.
To teach young children human by an adult human.
First you own life by human parent chosen sex. Your parents human are meant to teach you human survival on earth. Status teaching taken over by your science preaching brother.
Egotists human. I know it all. Be like me and not survive as I teach you how to destroy earth mass and it's gases by non acceptance of natural Only.
Actually.
First human science law. I am human. I live on a planet men named as earth. Evolution is none of my business if you want to survive as a human teaching a young human how to survive.
First law. You are a human observing first every other natural body. Real science.