Trump and the right don't care about the law when it applies to them.
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A pure wildly fantastic scenario, for your consideration
- Thread starter Shaul
- Start date
Audie
Veteran Member
For some, long before political Trump, the name had a kind of magic.
A Trump steak or golf course or school.
I'm guessing it won't be such a good brand.
Audie
Veteran Member
Trump, maybe. " the right", no.
tytlyf
Not Religious
It wouldn't happen. Especially when you insert known witchhunts without foundation into the equation.
Additionally, the Red Hat Master isn't going to bother with running for any office again.
He's done, he's gone.
I feel so strongly that this situation would never happen, I'll put $1,000 on it.
Additionally, the Red Hat Master isn't going to bother with running for any office again.
He's done, he's gone.
I feel so strongly that this situation would never happen, I'll put $1,000 on it.
Shadow Wolf
Certified People sTabber & Business Owner
I don't know how anyone voted for him the first time since his personal history and record revealed nothing corruption, bad business practices, a mountain of lawsuits, amd rampant fraud.It begs the question whom in their right mind would even consider voting for Trump again?
And then somehow people voted for him a second time despite him wanting us to go forth and risk our health and lives Mammon.
exchemist
Veteran Member
Another question is for what party? I don't think the Republicans would dare adopt him again. He'd run as an independent, split the Right and guarantee President Kamala Harris!
Subduction Zone
Veteran Member
I have heard that an office of honor would be any elected position. Or even appointed position. Most of the people that have been impeached and convicted in the U.S. have been federal judges. As you know none of them have been Presidents. That too is clearly a "position of honor". Perhaps some more research may be needed, but it is clearly much larger than just the Presidency.
Subduction Zone
Veteran Member
Mr Spinkles
Mr
Another scenario:
Trump is impeached and convicted (would require a supermajority in the Senate, but could happen - even Mitch seems inclined to impeach him).
The articles of impeachment include inciting an insurrection against the United States.
According to the 14th Amendment passed after the Civil War, you can never hold political office if you have incited insurrection against the United States.
Trump is therefore barred from running in 2024 since he is a traitor, but he runs anyway, taking 5% of the Republican vote, thus guaranteeing a Democratic victory in 2024.
Delicious.
I think if we condemn the 2016 Trump voters as fools one and all, we will miss several lessons that might it be of much benefit to us that we learn.
For instance, we will overlook the genuine feelings of desperation and near desperation that so many people in rural areas of the country were experiencing back then and are even more strongly experiencing today. It's easy to dismiss those people, their needs, even their value to the nation. Why do I say it's easy? Because that is what both parties have done -- each in its own way -- since Reagan took office in the 80s.
The Democrats only had to glance once at Ronald's popularity before deciding he was the future of politics in America. Within just two or three election cycles, they had all but abandoned their focus on 'the working man' -- which happened to include most rural voters -- and were chasing after the suburban professionals and Wall Street financiers.
The Republicans were just as bad. They promised rural Americans pie in the sky, but gave them only a few social issues -- anti-gay rights, anti-abortion rights, etc -- while ignoring their economic needs.
What could go wrong, right?
Well, it seems something did go wrong. Rural voters became cynical about both parties but ever more desperate. Then one day some dude out of New York descended an escalator with a pocketful of promises about shaking up Washington, draining the swamp, 'throwing the bums out', spending on infrastructure, keeping illegal immigrants from competing with them for the few jobs there are in rural America, bringing back manufacturing, and so forth. I don't know of any group in America that -- if it felt desperate, fed up, and frustrated -- would not have jumped for anyone who promised them pretty much exactly what they were hoping and praying for.
Easy to look at them all as fools, nationalists, racists, etc. Always easier and more emotionally gratifying to do that
Shadow Wolf
Certified People sTabber & Business Owner
I get that. They are those I lived with for 30 years.
I also saw them betray their morals and values for a man who normally they would condemn and want nothing to do with. I dealt with them giving me grief for not being conservative, patriotic, and pro military to meet their approval, but they gave Trump a free pass when he disrespected the troops and their families. I know how they love their Bible and their Jesus, yet I also saw them toss Matthew 16:26 out the window. They forsook everything they stand for a man who clearly a con.
I wish there I could remember the guys name, he was a guest on Real Time a few years ago, and he too pointed out Trump is everything they are against. They like humility and despise the boastful. They hate liars and adulterers. Disrespecting the troops is a great sin. Bit they surrendered it all for a man who is the very thing they dislike and don't trust.
I hear you. I know you're telling the truth, and I know you're not exaggerating. I grew up in a rural community in Illinois and I watched some of my classmates -- people that I for the most part met in kindergarten and graduated high school with -- radicalize from predominantly Eisenhower-style Republicans into today's Trump cultists over the course of the past 40 or so years. So, yeah, this is up close and personal for me, too.
Honestly, Wolf, I don't see how that changes anything I said. My life has been nothing if not an object lesson in, "There, but for the grace of God, go I." To borrow an expression a very kind old man used in consoling me when I was sixteen and had just screwed up massively even by today's standards. So, you do what you think is right. That is all any of us can do. And I'll do what I think is right.
For any and all Trump supporters (or cultists or whatever you want to call them) who are convicted of crimes for their actions on 1/6 or in the future I favor the stiffest penalties the law provides for, with reductions in sentences only in rare and extraordinary cases. They must be made examples of if for no other reason than in the hope of at least deterring some, even if not all, future violence and insurrection. We cannot afford to make the mistake the Germans made after the Beer Hall Putsch. For them, I would not even put leniency on the table.
But for those who are not guilty of any such crimes, I think the best, most effective approach is to put aside any disdain or anger we have for them over their being fooled -- and then try to join with them to address the underlying issues and problems that set the stage for a conman to so easily take advantage of them.
The true strength of America will not be found -- if it is indeed ever found again -- in the severity of its punishments, but rather in the loyalty and genuine patriotism of its people. To create that loyalty and patriotism, we must do a whole lot more than stand back and preach at folks about the error of their ways. We must take positive actions to show them democracy can work for them, it can help make their lives better, and it is worth preserving. So far as I can see, there is no other way.
My 2 cents.
One can be genuinely and legitimately aggrieved and a racist fool.
That's quite true. I should clarify. It is easy to dismiss the lot of them as a group because some significant portion of them are racist.
tytlyf
Not Religious
Their whole premise that they're the forgotten workers is flawed.
They don't understand the people that they're electing are the cause of that. Political ads are very powerful
And what of the remainder? Some don't recognize the white nationalist, neofascist core of Trumpism. Some don't care. In my opinion, both are understandable but neither are justifiable.
Honestly, Jay, if they have not committed crimes, I still favor working with them to demonstrate through actions that they have a vital interest in supporting democracy. In my view, if do not accomplish at least that much, we're up the creek.
OK, but let's do so without ever compromising an abiding commitment to the primacy of human rights.
It would be suicide it we did not.