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A Question about Jews and Islam?

Rainbow Mage

Lib Democrat/Agnostic/Epicurean-ish/Buddhist-ish
Shalom

I know that Judaism doesn't accept that Christianity is a legitimate religion for Jews because they worship God as a Trinity. Does Judaism accept then that Islam is a legitimate religion for a Jew? Please explain why or why not. Thanks
 

TheKnight

Guardian of Life
The only "appropriate" religion for a Jew (from an Orthodox standpoint) is Judaism. However, for non-Jews Islam is considered OK. According to Rambam, Islam is a monotheistic religion and is therefore in conjunction with the Seven Laws of Noah and may be practiced by a non-Jew.
 

eliehass

Member
The only "appropriate" religion for a Jew (from an Orthodox standpoint) is Judaism. However, for non-Jews Islam is considered OK. According to Rambam, Islam is a monotheistic religion and is therefore in conjunction with the Seven Laws of Noah and may be practiced by a non-Jew.

I agree with what you are saying, but it's tough to label Christianity. There are many sects that believe different things. The ones that believe in a true trinity may not be considered monotheistic and is therefore problematic (which is why a jew can't go into a church), but the one's that believe that the trinity is just a symbolic reference to one true God may be fine.

As far as Islam is concerned, Islam is monotheistic, and the God that Muslims pray to is the same God that Jews pray to. For a jew to go into a mosque and pray would be perfectly acceptable from a Jewish perspective. A jew however would not be able to practice the Muslim faith, because many of the specific laws are different, but from a Jewish perspective, a Muslim who believes in God, and follows the 7 laws (which he would be following if he followed the Koran) has access to the same Heaven that Jews do.
 

Yona

Frum Mastah Flex
I agree with what you are saying, but it's tough to label Christianity. There are many sects that believe different things. The ones that believe in a true trinity may not be considered monotheistic and is therefore problematic (which is why a jew can't go into a church), but the one's that believe that the trinity is just a symbolic reference to one true God may be fine.

As far as Islam is concerned, Islam is monotheistic, and the God that Muslims pray to is the same God that Jews pray to. For a jew to go into a mosque and pray would be perfectly acceptable from a Jewish perspective. A jew however would not be able to practice the Muslim faith, because many of the specific laws are different, but from a Jewish perspective, a Muslim who believes in God, and follows the 7 laws (which he would be following if he followed the Koran) has access to the same Heaven that Jews do.

^This.
 
Shalom :)
you guys are referring to the Noahide laws right? I think I read that somewhere that non Jews who follow this are okay right?
 

fatima_bintu_islam

Active Member
I agree with what you are saying, but it's tough to label Christianity. There are many sects that believe different things. The ones that believe in a true trinity may not be considered monotheistic and is therefore problematic (which is why a jew can't go into a church), but the one's that believe that the trinity is just a symbolic reference to one true God may be fine.

As far as Islam is concerned, Islam is monotheistic, and the God that Muslims pray to is the same God that Jews pray to. For a jew to go into a mosque and pray would be perfectly acceptable from a Jewish perspective. A jew however would not be able to practice the Muslim faith, because many of the specific laws are different, but from a Jewish perspective, a Muslim who believes in God, and follows the 7 laws (which he would be following if he followed the Koran) has access to the same Heaven that Jews do.


Thank you for sharing this :) , I would like to focus on the fact that Jews do not have to accept Islam if you allow me.

Could you please elaborate on this? If Islam is a correct religion , why Jews shouldnt convert to Islam?

Also, if in Judaism Islam is a correct religion, does it mean that Jews also believe that Muhammad peace be upon him is a prophet just like Noah and Jesus , peace be upon them all?

Thank you in advance for your responses :)
 

Levite

Higher and Higher
Could you please elaborate on this? If Islam is a correct religion , why Jews shouldnt convert to Islam?

Islam is a correct religion. It is not the correct religion, because there is not a clear consensus in Jewish thought that such a concept exists. Traditionally, all Jewish authorities agree that Judaism is the only acceptable religion for Jews to practice. It is our covenant with God, and is eternal, unbreakable, and can never be superseded or replaced.

Islam, being a monotheistic religion that teaches the kind of values of social justice that traditional Judaism approves of, is seen as a very good religion for non-Jews. Many Jewish authorities might even go so far as to say that Islam has valuable truths for its adherents, and its practice brings them closer to God.

However, that makes it right for them. It does not make it right for us. God has commanded us to follow the path of the Torah, as taught and interpreted for us by the Rabbis. That is what we must do.

Also, if in Judaism Islam is a correct religion, does it mean that Jews also believe that Muhammad peace be upon him is a prophet just like Noah and Jesus , peace be upon them all?

We believe that the age of prophecy ended with Ezra and Nehemiah (5th century BCE or so), and that God will not send further prophets, at least until the time of the messiah, who has not yet come.

For this reason, we believe that Muhammad cannot have been a prophet. It does not mean we do not think him or his teachings worthy of great respect. Just that we cannot consider him a prophet, or his teachings prophecy.
 

Whoitbe

Member
Interesting discussion. A Jew can ONLY be a Jew according to Jewish law - anything else is forbidden. Truthfully it depends on who you hold by though in regards to Islam and Christianity, also. Some hold that Christianity is actually ****tuf. ****tuf is hard for me to explain as I don't know the laws of it so well and exactly how it applies, but, basically the general idea as I understand is as follows. Effectively they do believe in the same G-d as us(NOT JESUS), what they might call the "Holy Spirit" or however they decide to coin it. But, the idea of ****tuf is "divine partnership". It is absolutely forbidden for a Jew to take part and belief in ****tuf, but for Gentiles it is acceptable. The idea of this Jesus fellow being a deity of some sort in lesser flesh that is partnered with the one and only G-d, isn't according to some opinions isn't something entirely forbidden to Gentiles. That doesn't mean it's right for them to believe in it or acceptable necessarily though. It's a very disputed subject.

In Judaism there is large disagreement amongst the rishonim(the sages of around 11th century to 15th) in regards to decidine whether Islam and Christianity are acceptable. It's still unclear today depending on which of the Rishonim you hold by. I personally agree that Islam is definitely monotheistic and it's possible they believe in the same G-d as us. That I won't say for certain. Christianity could be considered idolatry depending on what movement you're talking about. Coptic Christianity definitely is not idolatry, but you could say that much of western Christianity is. Your question about Islam though still isn't necessarily resolved even to this day. But, to my knowledge most orthodox Jews hold it is an acceptable form of monotheism for Gentiles, not for Jews. In fact, the Rambam(Maimonides) - perhaps the most revered sage of all time holds that you technically could pray in a mosque if there isn't another acceptable place to pray around. Whereas a church is utterly forbidden to pray in, or even around(I.e. In front of it in the open; etc), so much so that according to the Rambam we are forbidden to even bow down in front of it as it may appear to others we are praying.

It's interesting, many of the Rishonim who come from the east consider Islam to be more idolatrous and Christianity more monotheistic - and those from the West consider Islam to be more monotheistic and Christianity to be more idolatrous. Which sort of makes sense geographically if you compare western christianity to earlier eastern chrstianity. Depends who you hold by on this subject. But most Jews I've met agree Islam isn't idol worship.*
 

Flankerl

Well-Known Member
I have to say that i've never understood some things. For example here in germany some people want that the christians, muslims and we should hold once(or more) a year service together. I bet some kind of special "abrahamitic faith" service will again be done around christmas this year. Also various interreligious discussions etc the whole year.

I dont get this interreligious dialogue that is promoted all year long. Personally i dont even like the term "abrahamitic faith" because i think that term was invented by christians and muslims to further strengthen their point that they are the continuation of judaism.

Praying with muslims and christians. Why? Personally i think that they dont even pray to the same g'd as we do. So why should we join prayer? I dont like it a bit.



Yes its a bit of a rant.

edit
Also there was the so called "Abrahamsfest" not so long ago here in this district. It was okay. School classes would visit the synagogue and learn about our beliefs and customs etc.
Just so that no one thinks that i dont want anything to do with non-jews in our synagogue.
 
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Zardoz

Wonderful Wizard
Premium Member
... Personally i dont even like the term "abrahamitic faith" because i think that term was invented by christians and muslims to further strengthen their point that they are the continuation of judaism...

Not so. Ishmael, Jacob, and Esau are all descendants of Abraham, and each have a blessing. G-d blessed the descendants of Ishmael with Islam, the descendants of Edom with Christianity, for G-d's own purpose, because of these blessings. I praise G-d for remembering the covenant with Abraham, and blessing his descendants. The Abrahaic faith that we three have in common is the Covenant of Noah, and the Noachide Laws. In that regard, most Muslims are my co-religionists, and most Christians are also my co-religionists. May peace come soon for all the children of Abraham.
 
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Flankerl

Well-Known Member
I dont really see it that way. The whole "we are the only true religion and if you know whats good for you you better convert"-attitude isnt really a big bonus to me since it contradicts HaShem in a very big way.


But well to each his/her own opinion.
 

Zardoz

Wonderful Wizard
Premium Member
I see no purpose why the OP should be in this particular sub-DIR, as it does not pertain to this branch.
This happens a lot in our DIRs. I will consult with my fellow staff on movement of such misplaced outside inquiries.
 

garrydons

Member
Shalom everyone. As fas as I know, God is not a trinity. Shema says Hear O Israel Adonai our Elohim Adonai is one. But in Jewish point of view (i stand corrected if I am wrong) I think even if Islam is monotheistic religion it does not mean it is acceptable to the jews. I agree with the statement above that there is only one religion for the jews and that is Judaism. Yes, Islam and Christianity may have come from Judaism. But both although Abrahamic have different teachings and beliefs. Ismael came from Abraham but He was not the son of promise according to Scriptures but from Isaac came the promise seed. Christianity came with the coming of the Messiah or Christ among Christians but they too have gone astray from the true faith. Islam have their Koran while the Jews have their Torah. Koran and Torah are totally different Sacred writings. So I dont believe that islam are just okey for the jews.
 

dantech

Well-Known Member
Shalom everyone. As fas as I know, God is not a trinity. Shema says Hear O Israel Adonai our Elohim Adonai is one. But in Jewish point of view (i stand corrected if I am wrong) I think even if Islam is monotheistic religion it does not mean it is acceptable to the jews. I agree with the statement above that there is only one religion for the jews and that is Judaism. Yes, Islam and Christianity may have come from Judaism. But both although Abrahamic have different teachings and beliefs. Ismael came from Abraham but He was not the son of promise according to Scriptures but from Isaac came the promise seed. Christianity came with the coming of the Messiah or Christ among Christians but they too have gone astray from the true faith. Islam have their Koran while the Jews have their Torah. Koran and Torah are totally different Sacred writings. So I dont believe that islam are just okey for the jews.

I don't understand what people mean when they say "Religion X is not accepted"

As a Jew, the only religion accepted to be practiced by me, and other Jews is Judaism. As a Jew, I accept anyone who is respectful of me being a Jew, regardless of this person's religion.
 
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