A question about the honesty of the intelligence claims to be God!

[Raleigh]

A huge problem is that people blindly follow their leaders instead of using their own minds to determine the truth. So Jews were taught by their leaders Christ was false, Christians taught by their clergy Muhammad was not from God and Muslim leaders have turned their followers against believers in Baha’u’llah.

Whenever a new Prophet appears the previous religious leaders do everything in their power to destroy the new faith, seeing it as a threat to their power, dominance and control.

In this age, the hope is that the followers of all faiths will break free from corrupt religious leaders and become one by accepting all of God’s Messengers.

We can't put the blame to religious leaders. See how many religious leaders around the world (although there could be a few corrupted) are dedicating their lives to help people even today. After doing all the hard work and dedicating their whole life, people still try to blame them while the issue is clearly, somewhere else: This is why I'm asking this question:

Where can we find the father of Jesus or God carrying out any logical/meaningful communication with Jewish leaders/Jewish people? We don't see this. Therefore, I don't understand the logic that you use to blame Jewish leaders/people.

 

[loverofhumanity]

We can't put the blame to religious leaders. See how many religious leaders around the world (although there could be a few corrupted) are dedicating their lives to help people even today. After doing all the hard work and dedicating their whole life, people still try to blame them while the issue is clearly, somewhere else: This is why I'm asking this question:

Where can we find the father of Jesus or God carrying out any logical/meaningful communication with Jewish leaders/Jewish people? We don't see this. Therefore, I don't understand the logic that you use to blame Jewish leaders/people.

It’s the peoples fault also for listening to them and not investigating tye new Prophet for themselves.

 

[loverofhumanity]

We can't put the blame to religious leaders. See how many religious leaders around the world (although there could be a few corrupted) are dedicating their lives to help people even today. After doing all the hard work and dedicating their whole life, people still try to blame them while the issue is clearly, somewhere else: This is why I'm asking this question:

Where can we find the father of Jesus or God carrying out any logical/meaningful communication with Jewish leaders/Jewish people? We don't see this. Therefore, I don't understand the logic that you use to blame Jewish leaders/people.

Isaiah 3:7

O My people! Those who guide you lead you astray
And confuse the direction of your paths.

 

[Hockeycowboy]

You've emphasized "the entire inhabited earth" in that verse...does that mean you think your own religious views are also the result of the Devil's deception?

Not in major tenets, no. (Keep in mind, I also included secular beliefs.)

One thing with Jehovah’s people...we have adjusted our views when we found they were not in harmony w/ the rest of the Scriptures.
We still do.

In some fashion, we have all been misled....probably in our understanding of history

One thing I wish had never happened, was the destruction of the Alexandrian Library. And losing the other ancient libraries. Including Ashurbanipal, Pergamum, & Constantinople. The loss of that knowledge allowed errant viewpoints to grow (mostly in religion but also in areas of science), leading mankind on a journey of disagreement, disunity and confusion we see within the framework of society.
We can see it right here on RF.

Take care.

 

[Raleigh]

It’s the peoples fault also for listening to them and not investigating tye new Prophet for themselves.

According to you, what do you think if God had spoken to Jewish leaders / people? Do you think God would have helped Jewish leaders and people understand that he has sent Jesus to Earth?

 

[Valjean]

According to you, what do you think if God had spoken to Jewish leaders / people? Do you think God would have helped Jewish leaders and people understand that he has sent Jesus to Earth?

If he did, he did a pretty poor job of it, considering the numbers of Muslims and remaining Jews.

 

[loverofhumanity]

According to you, what do you think if God had spoken to Jewish leaders / people? Do you think God would have helped Jewish leaders and people understand that he has sent Jesus to Earth?

My belief is that the spiritual greatness of Jesus and His Teachings were more than sufficient proof and evidence that He was sent by God for any pure hearted soul.

As to those who were not pure in heart, nothing would have convinced them.

 

[Raleigh]

As to those who were not pure in heart, nothing would have convinced them.

It's not because of Impure hearts. Before Jesus came to Earth an intelligence claims to be God had already spoken to them. And that has created a set of beliefs and practices. If Jesus talks about an entirely different set of religious beliefs and practices people will not listen (common sense). Think of it this way, assume God appoint you as a prophet tomorrow and then he tells you what to do every day. Do you think you will be able to convince Islamic leaders that Allah is not the true God? Will you be able to change their beliefs and practices even if you produce a remarkable book and show miracles?

 

[loverofhumanity]

It's not because of Impure hearts. Before Jesus came to Earth an intelligence claims to be God had already spoken to them. And that has created a set of beliefs and practices. If Jesus talks about an entirely different set of religious beliefs and practices people will not listen (common sense). Think of it this way, assume God appointed you as a prophet tomorrow and talks to you quite often telepathically and tells you what to do. Do you think you will be able to convince Islamic leaders that Allah is not the true God? Will you be able to change their beliefs and practices even if you produce a remarkable book and show miracles?

If one is a follower of the light then no matter what lamp it may appear in they will accept it.

So if the light of truth appeared in Jesus and people worshipped the light, not the lamp of the personality of Jesus, then when that same light of truth appeared in Muhammad they would follow it.

Followers of the light of truth follow the truth whereas followers of personalities always will reject the next Prophet when He appears because they worship the personality not the light of truth within.

 

[Raleigh]

It's not because of Impure hearts. Before Jesus came to Earth an intelligence claims to be God had already spoken to them. And that has created a set of beliefs and practices. If Jesus talks about an entirely different set of religious beliefs and practices people will not listen (common sense). Think of it this way, assume God appoint you as a prophet tomorrow and then he tells you what to do every day. Do you think you will be able to convince Islamic leaders that Allah is not the true God? Will you be able to change their beliefs and practices even if you produce a remarkable book and show miracles?

So if the light of truth appeared in Jesus

So, you can assume that light of truth appeared in you because God appointed you as prophet. If my belief is that Allah is the true god, how can I know that "light of truth appeared" in you?

 

[loverofhumanity]

So, you can assume that light of truth appeared in you because God appointed you as prophet. If my belief is that Allah is the true god, how can I know that "light of truth appeared" in you?

If you believe in the Quran, it confirms Jesus was a Prophet.

 

[Valjean]

My belief is that the spiritual greatness of Jesus and His Teachings were more than sufficient proof and evidence that He was sent by God for any pure hearted soul.

As to those who were not pure in heart, nothing would have convinced them.

But we have almost no reliable evidence of this Jesus; who he was; what he did or said. There are no first person accounts, only legends and folk tales, told and retold countless times; a giant game of telephone.
Some get written down, and copied, and recopied; edited, enhanced, embellished. Some are compiled, some set aside, decade after decade, century after century.

Myriad cults and churches arise that use or borrow from this material; cherry pick and edit to suit their own ends.
Two thousand years later we have a few, roughly similar, anthologies of this ancient material. But even this, the best assemblage of cherry-picked "evidence" that Christianity could come up with, is inconsistent and contradictory.

IMHO, this is not proof. It's not even good evidence.

 

[Valjean]

If one is a follower of the light then no matter what lamp it may appear in they will accept it.

So if the light of truth appeared in Jesus and people worshipped the light, not the lamp of the personality of Jesus, then when that same light of truth appeared in Muhammad they would follow it.

Followers of the light of truth follow the truth whereas followers of personalities always will reject the next Prophet when He appears because they worship the personality not the light of truth within.

So why isn't the entire world Christian, by now? Why do we still have war and contention and suffering?
They have not accepted it.

 

[Valjean]

If you believe in the Quran, it confirms Jesus was a Prophet.

A prophet, not the Son of God, and mentioned, not confirmed.
You don't seem very skilled at ranking and evaluating evidence.

 

[loverofhumanity]

But we have almost no reliable evidence of this Jesus; who he was; what he did or said. There are no first person accounts, only legends and folk tales, told and retold countless times; a giant game of telephone.
Some get written down, and copied, and recopied; edited, enhanced, embellished. Some are compiled, some set aside, decade after decade, century after century.

Myriad cults and churches arise that use or borrow from this material; cherry pick and edit to suit their own ends.
Two thousand years later we have a few, roughly similar, anthologies of this ancient material. But even this, the best assemblage of cherry-picked "evidence" that Christianity could come up with, is inconsistent and contradictory.

IMHO, this is not proof. It's not even good evidence.

We have the Bible, the most popular Book in human history and over 2 billion followers. Jesus is the most well known figure in human history. To say anything else is like saying the sun doesn’t exist because we can’t touch it.

 

[loverofhumanity]

So why isn't the entire world Christian, by now? Why do we still have war and contention and suffering?
They have not accepted it.

Because people have freedom of choice.

 

[loverofhumanity]

A prophet, not the Son of God, and mentioned, not confirmed.
You don't seem very skilled at ranking and evaluating evidence.

The Son of God is a title nothing more.

John 1:12

But as many as received him, to them gave he power to become the sons of God, even to them that believe on his name:

 

[Valjean]

We have the Bible, the most popular Book in human history and over 2 billion followers. Jesus is the most well known figure in human history. To say anything else is like saying the sun doesn’t exist because we can’t touch it.

An ad populum? Really?
Did you read my post about the reliability of the Bible? Can you address that?
The Bible, the Quran, the Gita -- all are popular, with millions of followers, and there have been many other popular scriptures through history. Popularity is more a matter of chance, or populaton dynamics, than factual credibility.

Because people have freedom of choice.

So why, if the Bible be consistent and believable in itself, would anyone choose to reject it, particularly given the risk of eternal torment if they annoy the God of Love?

 

[loverofhumanity]

An ad populum? Really?
Did you read my post about the reliability of the Bible? Can you address that?
The Bible, the Quran, the Gita -- all are popular, with millions of followers, and there have been many other popular scriptures through history. Popularity is more a matter of chance, or populaton dynamics, than factual credibility.
So why, if the Bible be consistent and believable in itself, would anyone choose to reject it, particularly given the risk of eternal torment if they annoy the God of Love?

People reject religion for various reasons. Among them the high moral standards required.

The Holy Books are truth I believe because they came from God through inspired Prophets.We can check reliability of the concepts contained in them and determine whether they are true or not by recent Prophets.

 

[Valjean]

People reject religion for various reasons. Among them the high moral standards required.

But religious morality is deontological, even divine command. No internalized morality is required, sometimes leaving the religious flummoxed in novel situations.

A formalized list of rules is a moral crutch, allowing the religious to function "properly" only in familiar situations. There are no internalized principles to draw from, nor any facility for abstract moral reasoning.
The religious are often moral cripples.

The Holy Books are truth I believe because they came from God through inspired Prophets.

You need to defend this premise.
Why do you think the holy books were inspired of God? Why do you think there even is a god?
If the scriptures were inspired, why are they so contradictory and contain so many factual errors?

We can check reliability of the concepts contained in them and determine whether they are true or not by recent Prophets.

Great!
I'm listening....