A question for all religious believers -- why is your religion more true than any other?

[shunyadragon]

In determining my religious belief I have found some choices severely problematic, Fundamentally I am Philosophically a Universalist (not UU) and philosophically an agnostic, because in reality I do not know.". This view does not negate the existence of God, but it makes IT a subject of justified skepticism. I believe that reality is universal, consistent and in harmony with all of the nature of our existence, and the history of humanity. I evaluated the many varied conflicting religious and philosophical beliefs "as they are in history" and not whether they are totally true or false. From the objective perspective they represented a significant part of the cultural evolution of humanity whether God or Gods exist or not.

Early in my search I realized that one's choice of belief was rarely a product of an independent search for what may be true from beyond their own the fallible human perspective. The desire of a sense of belonging, community, and identity dominate choices in life. I often hear a version "I found it1" 95%+ of the time it ends up to be the belief of their family or peers. I concluded that "if you find the shoes that fit they are the wrong shoes."

My first conclusion is "If the Source some call God exists God is the universal God unknowable beyond what are described or undescribed and believed by any one religion. Creation would reflect the attributes of God in harmony with science. I am presently a Baha'i (follower of Light), because of the beliefs of the evolving nature of human spirituality, and no one ancient belief reflected one cultural view and image of God. Though for various reason I remain justified skeptical of my own belief. because in reality the nature of our existence and human history can be well explained without God. So far I am not comfortable with my choice or any of the most likely possible choices.

I often debate in the Greek tradition from the adversary position regardless of which side I take. The exception is science, which I debate on hard verifiable objective evidence.

On the question Free Will or No Free Will the question of Will is an issue of why people make the choices they do, I believe there is a potential of Free Will that people give up when they devote themselves to one belief or the other, and over time they give up the possibility of making alternate choices in all aspects of life and the reality of our existence when some claims to have "Found IT".

 

[shunyadragon]

Logic or reason is another tool that enables us to challenge cognitive biases and arrive at beliefs that are true. I thought I had said that a discussion of scientism would be for another thread...did you want to start a thread defending the proposition that science is the only means by which we can arrive at true conclusions? If you do, I hope you'll tackle the affirmative position. That would be fun.

Actually over time there are many threads concerning the questions that science can answer and, of course those that science cannot. The accusation is "scientism" is a minefield of contradictions as to actually what questions science can and will attempt to answer. The reality is science does not attempt to answer any questions beyond the physical nature of our existence.

To discuss anything further about "science" your in the realm of philosophy and theology of subjective questions with many diverse conflicting answers without coherent questions. Something akin to the "Mad Hatter's Tea Party."

 

[WonderingWorrier]

As a non-believer in any religion, I am curious how it is, what evidence, what logic, leads you to suppose that your particular religion/denomination/sect got it right, while the others did not.

Is it possible that you just think you understand everything you hear, because you interpret whatever you hear into a way that you can comprehend? Misunderstanding something can feel like understanding it.

As a non-believer you can only disbelieve your understanding of the information. Maybe you think you got it right, and the believers did not.

 

[Evangelicalhumanist]

Is it possible that you just think you understand everything you hear, because you interpret whatever you hear into a way that you can comprehend? Misunderstanding something can feel like understanding it.

As a non-believer you can only disbelieve your understanding of the information. Maybe you think you got it right, and the believers did not.

I'm going to answer this using something I just heard while listening to the news:

I was just listening to a focus group on support for Donald Trump, and a few in the group made it quite clear that it was because Donald Trump's "religious beliefs reflect my Christian values."

Anybody who has paid attention to DTIHOW (Donald Trump in His Own Words) for years knows perfectly well that Trump has no real religious belief, and is abysmally ignorant about Christianity in particular. Oh, yes, he held up a Bible in front of St. John's church in Washington! (Except it was upside down). Mike Pence, his own VP, said that Trump is "not much of a Christian."

I think, frankly, that most people are basically ignorant when confronted with the difficult disciplines of philosophy, ethics, religion, and it is that basic ignorance that makes people parrot religious (or philosophical, scientific, ethical) memes while understanding next to nothing about them.

It's basic ignorance that so many Americans actually thinks that Trump cares about them -- but they have no way to understand that he does not, because their need makes them incapable.

 

[WonderingWorrier]

I'm going to answer this using something I just heard while listening to the news:

I was just listening to a focus group on support for Donald Trump, and a few in the group made it quite clear that it was because Donald Trump's "religious beliefs reflect my Christian values."

When questioning others, maybe some answers can be found in yourself.

I think, frankly, that most people are basically ignorant when confronted with the difficult disciplines of philosophy, ethics, religion, and it is that basic ignorance that makes people parrot religious (or philosophical, scientific, ethical) memes while understanding next to nothing about them.

Do you think that you understand "the difficult disciplines", while others know next to nothing?

 

[Hockeycowboy]

The religious / spiritual instruction I have accepted, also contains some eschatological elements; and it’s constantly being reinforced by everything I observe in this world, from its diverse & conflicting religious perspectives, to its political ineptitudes especially since 1914…. and the resultant physical & emotional suffering mankind has endured. Still endures…

Though most people will claim they want peace — and some work hard for it — yet despite their sincerest efforts, peace is becoming more and more elusive it seems.

This foretold sad condition that we find ourselves in, is just one of many elements that strengthens those beliefs.

(I’m also thankful to know the Bible teaches that this alienation from our Creator is soon to pass.)

 

[Muffled]

I believe it is because our religion comes straight form God instead of a book.

 

[Muffled]

It seems to me this is a sweeping generalisation. Perhaps by “religious people” you mean American evangelicals? Please don’t assume they are representative of religious people in general, nor even of Christians in particular.

I believe Christian evangelicals are more apt to have truth but it is no guarantee.

 

[Muffled]

I guess you have the wrong audience for that kind of question. Anyone who would defend their religion as the only Truth™ is gone or banned.
Such behaviour is even banned by the rules, so some might think their religion is the only true™ one, but don't dare state so openly.
Those people exist, just open up YouTube and look for the apologists. The Hamists would say that you can't be a Christian if you don't believe in the literal interpretation of Genesis. They're just not here.

I believe I am here and get reprimanded often but not usually because of exclusivity. It probably has more to do with being a heretic. I just don't see things the same way other people do.

 

[Secret Chief]

I believe it is because our religion comes straight form God instead of a book.

How do you get it then?

 

[shunyadragon]

The religious / spiritual instruction I have accepted, also contains some eschatological elements; and it’s constantly being reinforced by everything I observe in this world, from its diverse & conflicting religious perspectives, to its political ineptitudes especially since 1914…. and the resultant physical & emotional suffering mankind has endured. Still endures…
Though most people will claim they want peace — and some work hard for it — yet despite their sincerest efforts, peace is becoming more and more elusive it seems.

Our division into ancient tribal religions persist regardless of any superficial attempts at peace. The millennia of tribal wars between Judaism, Christianity and Islam among others persists today as in the Hamas war. There will be no peace as long as humans cling to ancient tribal beliefs that justify wars.

Tribal wars in history that persist not only involve tribal religions, but also Nationalist claims of manifest destiny as in the Putin Russian claim of the Czarist Russian Orthodox claim of Dominion over Eastern Europe and Russian Asia that results in the brutal inhuman invasion of Ukraine.

This foretold sad condition that we find ourselves in, is just one of many elements that strengthens those beliefs.

. . . and the persistence of ancient tribal motivations for wars.

(I’m also thankful to know the Bible teaches that this alienation from our Creator is soon to pass.)

The Bible justifies an ancient tribal war in prophecy to bring about the New Age. The righteous have been fighting these tribal wars for millennia.

"We have meet the enemy and they are us!" Pogo

 

[shunyadragon]

How do you get it then?

Crystal Ball, Marked deck of cards, or a Black Witch Ouija Board maybe?

 

[Secret Chief]

Crystal Ball, Marked deck of cards, or a Black Witch Ouija Board maybe?

I'm not presuming!
(I have to use a crystal ball at work to keep the boss vaguely happy).

 

[shunyadragon]

As a non-believer in any religion, I am curious how it is, what evidence, what logic, leads you to suppose that your particular religion/denomination/sect got it right, while the others did not.

The Baha'i Faith is a Theistic Abrahamic religion the believes in progressive Revelation in volving the world and the different religions right or wrong. The ancient religions represent God from the human perspective in the culture and time of the Revelation and for the most part do not change with the changing world. Over time humanity spiritually evolves from past the tribal ancient religions to a more universal perspective of the human relationship with God. This is indeed happening since 1844, but unfortunately the world remains in the grip of ancient tribal religions often at war, conflict and tension between the contemporary world and ancient tribal claims.

I am a Universalist (not UU) and from this perspective I remain a sceptic even for the religion of my choice. My argument against the ancient religions is they are out of place and time with the contemporary world and by their nature do not recognize the changing world in a positive way, and often reject science. They also by and large remain very exclusive in their relationship to those that believe differently. As a Universalist I also acknowledge the atheist and agnostic choices as more in touch with the reality of an evolving changing world

Regardless of whether the Baha'i Faith is true or not the world is changing since 1844 as the Baha'i Faith predicted, and the potential of the spiritual nature of humanity is indeed changing and evolving beyond the ancient religions.

 

[Truthseeker]

I've noticed an increase in pluralism where I am, but I don't feel its the 'norm' for most Abrahamics around here.

I guess you mean in RF?

 

[JustGeorge]

I guess you mean in RF?

I meant in my spot in the world: urban Iowa.

 

[Viker]

It's neither more nor less true than any other. It just is what it is, a religion.

 

[Truthseeker]

What was THAT like? (If you don't mind sharing...)

Were they liberal or conservative Quakers?

I myself was raised by Quakers. My father was the minister of the church. In politics my parents were liberal. My father didn't like Nixon, who was a Quaker. He preferred Kennedy. In Sunday school, I heard about the Buddha and also Muhammad. It was decidedly liberal in my case.

However, about that dislike of Nixon by my father, he refused to promote Nixon from the pulpit as the board asked.

 

[YoursTrue]

It does seem to me that all of the religious people I know accept that their creed, their religion's essential beliefs, are correct, while all others -- because they obviously don't agree with the central tenets of their sect, must be somehow lacking.

As a non-believer in any religion, I am curious how it is, what evidence, what logic, leads you to suppose that your particular religion/denomination/sect got it right, while the others did not.

This thread is meant to be a great opportunity for believers of all kinds to engage -- to write apologetics in defense of their beliefs. I'm hoping to see significant essays!

If I thought a religion other than what I adhere to is better than what I adhere to, I would join it. I'm sticking with what I know, understand, and believe, and have not found anything better, including the various portrayals of belief systems on these forums. Hope that helps to clarify my position about this. One of the prime reasons I studied with Jehovah's Witnesses and stay with them is that they are neutral regarding politics and war. This teaching alone started me studying with them and I am still happily one after many years.

 

[Truthseeker]

I meant in my spot in the world: urban Iowa.

I guess you mean by that that there is more pluralism in rural Iowa, but that isn't the case by Abrahamics in rural Iowa.

I know about the demographics about the rural areas of America being conservative Christian strongholds. My father however grew up in Des Moines to a Quaker family.