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A question for creationists

A

Agnostic75

Well-Known Member
If an eternally existing God is a reasonable possibility, why isn't eternally existing energy in a naturalistic universe also a reasonble possibility?

Even if this universe had a beginning, there is not any credible evidence that no energy existed prior to the beginning of the universe.

Since I am an agnostic, I am not necessarily promoting naturalism, or theism.
 
nnmartin

nnmartin

Well-Known Member
Agnostic75 said:
.. why isn't eternally existing energy in a naturalistic universe also a reasonble possibility?
Click to expand...

Because it goes against the laws of God.

The Laws of God exist because they do.

Please note that this is exactly the same line of reasoning the Evolutionists take, namely: Life and Evolution occur due to the Laws of Physics.

Where is the evidence that the Laws of Physics created themselves?
 
Me Myself

Me Myself

Back to my username
nnmartin said:
Because it goes against the laws of God.

The Laws of God exist because they do.

Please note that this is exactly the same line of reasoning the Evolutionists take, namely: Life and Evolution occur due to the Laws of Physics.

Where is the evidence that the Laws of Physics created themselves?
Click to expand...

Actually the thing is just that unless we find something that appears to point us a begining of them, we assume their "eternity".

The difference betweeen the claim of God creating everything is that we do see Law of Physics in action, we just suppose they have been in action before, and we have never see any entity "creating" them or evidence that this "creation" of them has happened, so for the time being we accept them as "eternal".
 
Shermana

Shermana

Heretic
Agnostic75 said:
If an eternally existing God is a reasonable possibility, why isn't eternally existing energy in a naturalistic universe also a reasonble possibility?

Even if this universe had a beginning, there is not any credible evidence that no energy existed prior to the beginning of the universe.

Since I am an agnostic, I am not necessarily promoting naturalism, or theism.
Click to expand...

And there's no evidence that there was any that existed, so stalemate.

However, the idea that energy can exist on its own without cause kind of violates a lot of basic physics.
 
Shermana

Shermana

Heretic
Photonic said:
So why do you say he is infinite?

Energy is limited in quantity.
Click to expand...

Quote me where I said He's "infinite", He has limits. The "Universe cannot contain" Him ("highest heavens"), that doesn't mean there's no end to the Universe. 9,999,999,999,999,999,999,999,999,999,999,999,999,999,999999,999,999,999,999,999,999,999,999,999,999,999,999,999999,999,999,999,999,999,999,999,999,999,999,999,999,999999,999,999,999,999,999,999,999,999,999,999,999,999,999^999,999,999,999,999,999,999,999,999,999,999,999,999,999999,999,999,999,999,999,999,999,999,999,999,999,999,999 is a really big number, but not "infinite". There's only so many unique colors he can make, only so many shapes, only so many of everything.

At the same time, Energy can be technically perpetual, so His lifespan can easily be "infinite".

"Maximum" is a better word to use than "infinite".
 
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Photonic

Photonic

Ad astra!
Shermana said:
Quote me where I said He's "infinite", He has limits. The "Universe cannot contain" Him ("highest heavens"), that doesn't mean there's no end to the Universe. 9,999,999,999,999,999,999,999,999,999,999,999,999,999,999999,999,999,999,999,999,999,999,999,999,999,999,999,999999,999,999,999,999,999,999,999,999,999,999,999,999,999999,999,999,999,999,999,999,999,999,999,999,999,999,999^999,999,999,999,999,999,999,999,999,999,999,999,999,999999,999,999,999,999,999,999,999,999,999,999,999,999,999 is a really big number, but not "infinite". There's only so many unique colors he can make, only so many shapes, only so many of everything.

At the same time, Energy can be technically perpetual, so His lifespan can easily be "infinite".

"Maximum" is a better word to use than "infinite".
Click to expand...

So much for being all powerful.

Your comments are in line with pantheism, not an abrahamic faith.

This would mean that the universe is God, God is the Universe.
 
Shermana

Shermana

Heretic
Photonic said:
So much for being all powerful.

Your comments are in line with pantheism, not an abrahamic faith.

This would mean that the universe is God, God is the Universe.
Click to expand...

1. Define "All powerful" in relation to what I said about "Maximum".
2. Explain why my view is Pantheist as opposed to more along the lines of Panentheism.

http://www.myjewishlearning.com/bel..._Ages/The_Kabbalists_on_God/Panentheism.shtml
The panentheistic doctrine is Jewishly unconventional but traces of it are found in some Jewish sources. The Zohar speaks of God both 'filling all worlds' and 'surrounding all worlds.' The Kabbalist Hayyim Ibn Atar writes, in his Commentary, Or Ha-Hayyim (to Genesis 2:1), 'The world is in its Creator and the light of the Creator is in the whole world.'
Click to expand...

Either way, my view is not necessarily even Panentheist, David specifically says "The highest heavens cannot contain you", take it from there.
 
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Photonic

Photonic

Ad astra!
Shermana said:
1. Define "All powerful" in relation to what I said about "Maximum".
2. Explain why my view is Pantheist as opposed to more along the lines of Panentheism.

Panentheism and Judaism - My Jewish Learning


Either way, my view is not necessarily even Panentheist, David specifically says "The highest heavens cannot contain you", take it from there.
Click to expand...

If he is more than the universe can contain, then it makes little sense to say what you have.
 
Shermana

Shermana

Heretic
Photonic said:
If he is more than the universe can contain, then it makes little sense to say what you have.
Click to expand...

The exact verse is "The highest heavens cannot contain you", as I put in Parenthesis, and it doesn't necessarily discredit what I said. It could be even metaphorical, as its in relation to the concept of a Temple on Earth for His presence to Dwell. The Eternal One can exist inside and out of what we perceive as the tangible Universe, just as how in Quantum physics, particles can exist inside and out of what we call the tangible Universe.
 
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A

Agnostic75

Well-Known Member
nnmartin said:
Because it goes against the laws of God.

The Laws of God exist because they do.

Please note that this is exactly the same line of reasoning the Evolutionists take, namely: Life and Evolution occur due to the Laws of Physics.

Where is the evidence that the Laws of Physics created themselves?
Click to expand...

Since I am an agnostic, I do not necessarily promote naturalism, or theism. If a God exists, how can anyone know who he is, and what his agenda are?
 
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