A question for creationists

[Pegg]

energy was not poured into anything.
everything in the periodic table of elements was created from the singuarity and the evolution of galaxies as stars are born and die. During the singularity they may have not all existed but the foundation for all the materials was.

if the foundation for all the materials comes from the same source (the singularity) then you would think that the material it generated would be the same material

yet that is not the case. the elements, which come from the same singularity, are all different...depending on how the atoms are arranged and that 'arrangement' to me indicates 'intelligence'... otherwise why not just spew out the same materials from the single source of energy???

Matter organizes by gravity and chemical and physical processes combined with heating and cooling and fusion.

the nature is space is one heck of a blender

lol
usually when i put something in the blender, it comes out like mush

 

[shawn001]

you must have a lot of faith to believe that it possible to get something from nothing

It does not break any laws of physics.

Nor does it mean there aren't other universes out there. Actually if some of the theories are right then there is an indefinite number of them and you. Partly because particles can be in two places at the same time.

 

[shawn001]

if the foundation for all the materials comes from the same source (the singularity) then you would think that the material it generated would be the same material

yet that is not the case. the elements, which come from the same singularity, are all different...depending on how the atoms are arranged and that 'arrangement' to me indicates 'intelligence'... otherwise why not just spew out the same materials from the single source of energy???




lol
usually when i put something in the blender, it comes out like mush

So do some of the things in the universe. They don't make it and are turned to rock and gases and are later reformed to make other things. Our sun is second generation material and so are you. The material in your body, the elements come from super nova star explosions billions of years ago, as does our solar system.

 

[Pegg]

So do some of the things in the universe. They don't make it and are turned to rock and gases and are later reformed to make other things. Our sun is second generation material and so are you. The material in your body, the elements come from super nova star explosions billions of years ago, as does our solar system.

yep, i dont have a problem in believing that part of it

but the part that doesnt make any sense is that all this material can arrange itself into complex living lifeforms without direction. What this implies is that light beams are capable of developing intelligence

it just doesnt seem possible without an intelligence directing it.

 

[shawn001]

yep, i dont have a problem in believing that part of it

but the part that doesnt make any sense is that all this material can arrange itself into complex living lifeforms without direction. What this implies is that light beams are capable of developing intelligence

it just doesnt seem possible without an intelligence directing it.

Didn't have to be intlelligence behind a star forming from gasses and rocks, billions do everyday with no intelligent process behind them. The laws of nature take care of it.

The early universe was quite different, certain things had to happen, one of which was a matter/antimatter annihilation, which left a small amount of matter.

Not all the elements came from the big bang, some from the super nova star explosions. Two different kinds of nucleosynthesis.

If the universe did not develop the way it did we wouldn't be here to ask why it developed the way it did, but it does mean it was designed specifically for us at all. It is quite likely there is a lot of life out there besides us.

A ton of random events happened to make the material were made from and the sun and planet and moon and here we are, but the "fine tuning" from our perspective doesn't mean a "god" did it for sure and we are working on ways that do explain it, some with other universes. Some also think black holes create new universes.

If our universe was "designed" it wasn't a practical way for a "god" to design it really.

 

[shawn001]

"that all this material can arrange itself into complex living lifeforms without direction"

Things can go the other direction fast, in fact that is a natural law. Things have a tendency to become disordered. Its the cycle of life. We become odered and then we die and become disordered. Same with stars, galaxies etc.. Its not looking real good for the ultimate fate of our universe at the moment.

 

[outhouse]

if the foundation for all the materials comes from the same source (the singularity) then you would think that the material it generated would be the same material

it did

some just had to carbonize lol in the birth and death of stars

 

[outhouse]

but the part that doesnt make any sense is that all this material can arrange itself into complex living lifeforms without direction.

chemistry peg

for some reason you cant keep life down

the diversity we have that came from a dead rock is amazing ill give you that but its not a mystery anymore

What this implies is that light beams are capable of developing intelligence

sun rays with a combination of the right elements with a half a million years is what it took.

it didnt arise in a poof of magic as written by men who knew nothing of the naturtal world around them

 

[Pegg]

chemistry peg

for some reason you cant keep life down

the diversity we have that came from a dead rock is amazing ill give you that but its not a mystery anymore

there are other planets in our solar system...why is there no life on them?

if life can randomly generate without direction....why isnt the universe teeming with it??

Humans and their technology are relatively young compared with the age of the universe... so if in just 100 years we've been able to work out how to get to the moon and travel through space, why arnt there a horde of other intelligent life forms traveling the universe exploring the place too??? Nasa havnt reported seeing any other lifeforms out there yet...where is all this life that can generate from lightbeams??? Why dont we see it everywhere?

sun rays with a combination of the right elements with a half a million years is what it took.

it didnt arise in a poof of magic as written by men who knew nothing of the naturtal world around them

the right elements had to be organized before they could do anything...organization doesnt happen from chaos - never.

 

[shawn001]

there are other planets in our solar system...why is there no life on them?

if life can randomly generate without direction....why isnt the universe teeming with it??

Humans and their technology are relatively young compared with the age of the universe... so if in just 100 years we've been able to work out how to get to the moon and travel through space, why arnt there a horde of other intelligent life forms traveling the universe exploring the place too??? Nasa havnt reported seeing any other lifeforms out there yet...where is all this life that can generate from lightbeams??? Why dont we see it everywhere?



the right elements had to be organized before they could do anything...organization doesnt happen from chaos - never.

"there are other planets in our solar system...why is there no life on them? "

We don't know for a fact there isn't and there is a good chance there is life on some of them.


"
if life can randomly generate without direction....why isnt the universe teeming with it?? "

It probably is its just bigger then you can imagine and the distances are very far to communicate not to mention how, are some of the problems.


"Humans and their technology are relatively young compared with the age of the universe... so if in just 100 years we've been able to work out how to get to the moon and travel through space"

It took 4.57 billion years to get us and where were at, not 100 years of just technology. We have a hard time getting people to the moon. Again the distances are extremely vast. For one you would have to travel at or near the speed of light or warp space and this is very tricky.

But we don't know the answers to those questions yet, as were new to all this as you pointed out, but its looking good and the odds are VERY high will find other life.

We have found a thousand or so planets outside our solar system recently and 25 years ago we couldn't find one. As our technology gets better we will be able to explore more.

This though doesn't change the fact here on earth cynobacteria evolved photosythesis and created our oxygen atmophere over some billion years and that is why we have an oxygen atmosphere today.

 

[shawn001]

Nor does carbon have to be the only thing life can be made out of out there. Silicone could work as well. There maybe life out there we wouldn't recognize as such right off the bat. There maybe life forms out there you could never imagine what they would look like or how they would evolve to their home planet, as opposed to us here.

 

[Pegg]

We don't know for a fact there isn't and there is a good chance there is life on some of them.

it seems some religions are with you on that idea.
Some years back, priests at the Vatican Observatory had come to the conclusion that God also created extraterrestrials because the universe is simply too large for us to be alone in. So they sent the New Testament into space as an encoded message. Its a whole new field of adherents

But we don't know the answers to those questions yet, as were new to all this as you pointed out, but its looking good and the odds are VERY high will find other life.
We have found a thousand or so planets outside our solar system recently and 25 years ago we couldn't find one. As our technology gets better we will be able to explore more.

This though doesn't change the fact here on earth cynobacteria evolved photosythesis and created our oxygen atmophere over some billion years and that is why we have an oxygen atmosphere today.

Photosynthesis needs cell walls within which the process can safely take place, and the continuation of the process requires cell reproduction... so these things must have taken place simultaneously which again spells 'direction' imho

 

[Me Myself]

Energy and matter are part of creation and exist within space time.
The same reason I can't believe in Pagan gods which are part of creation
Something outside of Time and Space had to have created them both,

Why do they have to be created? Why outside of them?

Time is a human creation, not something real. Time is a form of measure of change in matter sort to say.

I havený seen one single person answering the actual question:

If God can exist eternally, why can´t universal energy have existed eternally? we have no reason to believe it didn´t, so it seems just as likely. (at LEAST just as likely)

 

[Pegg]

If God can exist eternally, why can´t universal energy have existed eternally? we have no reason to believe it didn´t, so it seems just as likely. (at LEAST just as likely)

but we do have reason to believe it didnt because the universe did not always exist and therefore nor did the energy within it.

 

[Me Myself]

but we do have reason to believe it didnt because the universe did not always exist and therefore nor did the energy within it.

Which is the reason? to what I recall big bang states that there might have been a big crunch, and it might as well be cyclical big crunch and big bang for eternity, all of which would be with the same energy.

 

[Pegg]

Which is the reason? to what I recall big bang states that there might have been a big crunch, and it might as well be cyclical big crunch and big bang for eternity, all of which would be with the same energy.

there is a lot of speculation surrounding what came before the big bang... my guess it is because they know that something can not come from nothing

 

[Me Myself]

there is a lot of speculation surrounding what came before the big bang... my guess it is because they know that something can not come from nothing

So... the question remains?

Nombody can see how and eternal God is more plausible than an eternal universe?

I would say this is because the argument of "somebody must have created the universe" is just... well, a feeling more than an actual logical necessity.

 

[Pegg]

So... the question remains?

Nombody can see how and eternal God is more plausible than an eternal universe?

except that the physical evidence is clear that the universe is NOT eternal.

but of course that fact is too inconvenient for many to accept....so they keep searching for something they will never find.

 

[Heathen Hammer]

except that the physical evidence is clear that the universe is NOT eternal.

but of course that fact is too inconvenient for many to accept....so they keep searching for something they will never find.

Since Time cannot exist without Space and vice versa, at the instant of the Bang, th Timeline would have been interrupted, if there were a universal cycle before us. Whatever the truth of it is is unknowable to us.

That said, your God cannot exist outside of Time, as he would be unable to take any action.

 

[outhouse]

there are other planets in our solar system...why is there no life on them?

its all about atmosphere and temature, we happen to be in the right spot.


look up the goldylocks zone

if life can randomly generate without direction....why isnt the universe teeming with it??

We dont know it isnt



peg take the length of the united states from coast to coast, the radio signaks we send out in space are the equivelent of taking one step out of your front door and saying you know it all.

Time peg its a killer, we are so isolated by time and so primitive in what we really know.

why arnt there a horde of other intelligent life forms traveling the universe exploring the place too???

could be peg

but we are talking about the distance it takes to get anywhere, were talking millions of light years or hundred thousand light years as only being sligtly around our corner.

we are ISOLATED

where is all this life that can generate from lightbeams??? Why dont we see it everywhere?

distance peg, distance IS time.


what we know is equivelent to going to the ocean and taking a glass of water out and then claiming there are no whales in it because none are in our glass