A question for non-theist UU's.

[Nanda]

thanks..your welcome. I may be the only atheist uu on here at this point. Most of the UU's on rf believe in a higher power. I think you now have 100 % partipation.

Isn't Jaymes an atheist UU?

Sense of community. Philosophical acceptance and or congruence to the 7 principles of UU. Academic study of religion. Promotion of the idea of everyone should be allowed to study and research religion and the question of God in a neutral place/environment .

Cool. Thank you.

 

[robtex]

Isn't Jaymes an atheist UU?

oh yea you are right!!

 

[Mr Spinkles]

I'm an atheist and I've been thinking for a long time about joining a UU church....belonging to such a community could be useful when I get married or when I die. I like the idea of having some sort of meaningful ceremony at my wedding or funeral, but I would prefer that it not be lead by a minister/rabbi/priest, etc., or by a judge. A UU minister seems like the solution.

 

[Trey of Diamonds]

Greetings,

My church has at least a couple atheist that I know of. They come for the community, the scholarly aspect, ie meaningful discussion on the different religions of the world, and most importantly, the coffee. :coffee2:

I know there is a small minority of atheists that seek to remove all aspects of religion from their lives and sometimes even from the lives of others but for the most part I would think atheists are as curious about life as anyone else. The UU church is a good place to find diverse information about the subject of religion with no pressure to change your own beliefs. Some of us would say it's the best place...

 

[Caina]

Sometimes we find ourselves behind enemy lines, even if only to see what weapons they are using on the children of today

 

[Trey of Diamonds]

Sometimes we find ourselves behind enemy lines, even if only to see what weapons they are using on the children of today

That is one thing I have heard some athiest say is that they like the Religious Education classes of UU churches. They want their children to receive an unbiased introduction the all the worlds religions so that they can make their own choices when they are older.

 

[rojse]

No one has answered my question about what UU is. From what I have gathered on reading these new posts, UU provides some of the functions of a church, such as weddings, funerals, and community support, without including a heavy dose of one religion, or, if it does, it includes all of them. Am I right in what I surmise?

 

[Trey of Diamonds]

No one has answered my question about what UU is. From what I have gathered on reading these new posts, UU provides some of the functions of a church, such as weddings, funerals, and community support, without including a heavy dose of one religion, or, if it does, it includes all of them. Am I right in what I surmise?

Oops, sorry. You gather correctly for the most part but if you ask 100 UUs what UUism is, you'll get 110 answers. For a pretty good overview check this thread out.

http://www.religiousforums.com/forum/showthread.php?t=490

For me, UU is a place to explore all the Worlds religions without being pressured by any of them to be something I'm not. And, it's a great place to drink coffee and chat.

 

[lilithu]

No one has answered my question about what UU is. From what I have gathered on reading these new posts, UU provides some of the functions of a church, such as weddings, funerals, and community support, without including a heavy dose of one religion, or, if it does, it includes all of them. Am I right in what I surmise?

Unitarian Universalism is a religion in and of itself. While many religions focus on the nature of divinity, UUs focus on the nature of humanity. All UUs believe in the worth of human beings and from that agreement stems the other things that characterize UU. Believing in the inherent worth of humans, we believe that what arises from humanity is essentially good/worthwhile. Hence our broad tolerance of differences and our pluralistic approach to religious beliefs. Believing in the inherent worth of humans, we believe in human agency. Even those of us who are theists, myself included, believe that it is up to humans to make "heaven on earth."

Together - atheist and theist - Christian, Jew, and Pagan, etc - we share a common religious view of humanity.

 

[lilithu]

Why join and attend a church if you don't believe in god?

I would think it would be for the same or similar reasons that theist UUs join and attend a church. With respect (I do understand that your question is sincere), I don't see why believing in God is relevant to attending church. At least not a UU church. My god does not tell me that I have to go to church. I don't need to go to church to "be with God." My god is not confined to one building and does not "need" me to be there either.

As a UU, I go to church to be with other UUs. To draw strength and sustenance from our bond of community. All week long I have to deal with a world where too often people look out only for themselves. They're not bad - that's just the way they've been socialized. If I am not careful, I start falling into that too. But once a week I set aside some time to be with people who, like me, have decided to intentionally aspire to our highest, best selves - selves that encompass others. Each week we are reminded of what it means to be human, what is most important. On most Sundays (not all), after a rousing worship service and bonding over lunch and coffee, I leave feeling rejuvenated, ready to face the world again.

 

[Nanda]

I would think it would be for the same or similar reasons that theist UUs join and attend a church. With respect (I do understand that your question is sincere), I don't see why believing in God is relevant to attending church. At least not a UU church. My god does not tell me that I have to go to church. I don't need to go to church to "be with God." My god is not confined to one building and does not "need" me to be there either.

As a UU, I go to church to be with other UUs. To draw strength and sustenance from our bond of community. All week long I have to deal with a world where too often people look out only for themselves. They're not bad - that's just the way they've been socialized. If I am not careful, I start falling into that too. But once a week I set aside some time to be with people who, like me, have decided to intentionally aspire to our highest, best selves - selves that encompass others. Each week we are reminded of what it means to be human, what is most important. On most Sundays (not all), after a rousing worship service and bonding over lunch and coffee, I leave feeling rejuvenated, ready to face the world again.

What a wonderful answer. Thank you!

 

[applewuud]

I'm not a Unitarian-Universalist atheist, but my personal theology is strongly humanist and I enjoy the honesty of many atheists. Community is an important reason for people to be involved with church, but another reason is to be prodded along by the ideas of others in our "free and responsible search for meaning". Forums like this one are good, but they're not the same as being involved in the nuts and bolts of congregational life with other people.

In practice, going to a UU church implies that you're comfortable with having your assumptions challenged sometimes. If you're a liberal Christian who's uncomfortable hearing atheist or earth-centered or humanist concepts in your church, you're more likely to attend a Congregational or Episcopal church. By the same token, if you're an atheist/humanist who is revolted by the very idea of a personal God, exposure to the teachings of Jesus or other religious prophets, there will be Sundays when you may not feel comfortable going to a UU church.

This all varies by congregation, by the way; there are UU congregations (or "fellowships", for groups who don't like the implications of the word "church") that are strongly theist (e.g., King's Chapel in Boston is basically Anglican in its liturgy, with the omission of the Apostle's Creed and any reference to the Trinity). Other congregations have a strong humanist basis and their ministers mention the word "God" only with disclaimers, in deference to congregation members who have a negative history with orthodox religion. The majority of UU congregations are in the middle somewhere. That's why we're in the "syncretic religions" part of the forum.

It also accounts in part for Unitarian-Universalism being a relatively small denomination, despite its deep roots in American culture, having descended in part from the Puritan churches of New England. It's understandable that people are more comfortable being with others who believe pretty much the same theology.

 

[Caina]

That is one thing I have heard some athiest say is that they like the Religious Education classes of UU churches. They want their children to receive an unbiased introduction the all the worlds religions so that they can make their own choices when they are older.

Exactly, personally I would like to see religion restricted to high school or later. Let them learn fact and with age move into speculations

 

[lilithu]

Nanda, when are your tats going to heal so I can read more about Ugly Girl?

I don't know the origin of your name. From the discussion regarding your tats, it seems Japanese? But whenever I see your name I think of Nanda, Lord Shiva's bull.



edit:
I originally wrote Krishna. As Pariah pointed out to me, Nanda is Shiva's bull, not Krishna's. Ironically, I consider myself more shaivite than vaishnavite. (Hey, when I think bovine, I think Krishna.) Sorry Lord Shiva, I should know better.

 

[spiritually inclined]

I am an atheist, though not a Unitarian Universalist. However, I am attracted to the religion because of its tolerance of theological diversity. Even many Progressive Christian churches would be uncomfortable with atheists.

I'm not sure why I want to have religion in my life. I actually have very little religion in my life and no official religion because of previous experiences with a border-line cult (Oneness Pentecostalism) and the fact that I don't know what to do with my religious impulses. Also, religion has such a negative reputation that I am hesitant even to become involved in a very positive religion that basically supports humanist values, with which I agree.

Religious impulses are hardwired into the brain and the DNA. Studies in twins indicate that some people are naturally more religious, and this is probably why I am still investigating whether religion or religious rituals can play a part in my life. The sense of community is also appealing to me.

However, I am drawn to ritual, and given its Protestant origins, Unitarian Universalism doesn't seem to have much ritual or liturgy. Does anyone know if some congregations have a more complex liturgy, like an Anglican liturgy, in the United States?

James

 

[lilithu]

Hi James, namaste.

I am an atheist, though not a Unitarian Universalist. However, I am attracted to the religion because of its tolerance of theological diversity. Even many Progressive Christian churches would be uncomfortable with atheists.

I'm not sure why I want to have religion in my life. I actually have very little religion in my life and no official religion because of previous experiences with a border-line cult (Oneness Pentecostalism) and the fact that I don't know what to do with my religious impulses. Also, religion has such a negative reputation that I am hesitant even to become involved in a very positive religion that basically supports humanist values, with which I agree.

Religious impulses are hardwired into the brain and the DNA. Studies in twins indicate that some people are naturally more religious, and this is probably why I am still investigating whether religion or religious rituals can play a part in my life. The sense of community is also appealing to me.

I can understand where you are coming from. I am not atheist, but even when I essentially was atheist, I was still earnestly searching for a religion which I could accept and which would accept me. Funny, both my parents are atheists and I've often wondered where my very strong impulse towards religion comes from. Maybe some people are genetically predisposed. But I tend to think that ALL people seek meaning, and that's what religion ultimately is for. Paul Tillich, a Christian existentialist, said that everyone has a religion, even if they are not part of an organized tradition. Everyone seeks meaning, and whatever you most cherish, whatever your highest value is, that is your religion. Anyway, I digress.

However, I am drawn to ritual, and given its Protestant origins, Unitarian Universalism doesn't seem to have much ritual or liturgy. Does anyone know if some congregations have a more complex liturgy, like an Anglican liturgy, in the United States?

James

Yeah, I'd say that is where we are most lacking. Granted, some people have negative associations with the smells and bells and so the relative lack in UU is comforting for them. I like ritual. In fact, I have in mind to create some (more) uniquely UU rituals. (We do already have a few.)

Where in the country are you located, if you don't mind my asking? The reason I ask is because where you are will likely greatly influence what the UU congregation is like near you. Both Unitarianism and Universalism started on the East coast, and the older churches, the ones that were already existed before the splits with the Calvinism, tend to have retained some ritual and liturgy. For example, All Souls in NYC and National Memorial in DC both still sing a traditional doxology. National Memorial holds communion 3 or 4 times a year. A lot of the UU churches in New England also do. Otoh, the newer congregations tend to not have these things.

If ritual/liturgy is important to you, do NOT by any means attend a UU "fellowship." Look for a UU "church." Attending UU church will not guarantee that you will get ritual, but attending a UU fellowship will guarantee that you won't.

Lastly a word of caution: if you want ritual, you're going to have to be comfortable with the "God-talk." They kinda go hand in hand. At least I have yet to see a UU congregation that is heavily atheist and yet is heavy in ritual. But of course, you are free to interpret the God-talk in the way that makes the most sense to you.

 

[Nanda]

Nanda, when are your tats going to heal so I can read more about Ugly Girl?

I usually update on Mondays. I'm feeling pretty good, so it should be up this week.

I don't know the origin of your name. From the discussion regarding your tats, it seems Japanese? But whenever I see your name I think of Nanda, Lord Shiva's bull.

In my case it's not Japanese, that's just a happy coincidence. I'm called Nanda because when my youngest brother was two, he couldn't pronounce "Amanda."

 

[spiritually inclined]

I am living in Texas, so Unitarian Universalist churches probably won't be common here, though I've seen a couple. But they are far away.

James

 

[lilithu]

I am living in Texas, so Unitarian Universalist churches probably won't be common here, though I've seen a couple. But they are far away.

James

Have you considered the United Church of Christ?

Don't be put off by the name. Many UCC are very religiously liberal and some are even atheists. If you run into des in these forums, ask her about it. She is an atheist UCC.

But if ritual is the most important thing to you, I'd say go with the Episcopalians.

Actually... what I'd say is find a congregation that works for you, whether they are UU, UCC or Episcopal. It may sound strange but I honestly think that denominational affiliation is less important than whether you feel at home in the specific congregation.

 

[spiritually inclined]

Do you know if the United Church of Christ and Episcopal churches are okay with atheists participating? Not that I HAVE to tell them I am an atheist, yet at the same time I do not want to feel forced into hiding.

James