a question for those who still support bush

[Terrywoodenpic]

It was an excellent place to try to install freedom, equality and democracy. While 48% of Iraqis think it is ok to "blow up Americans", once we leave, there is a chance that Iraq will thrive. We just need to get out and see if democracy will take off.

Why should they.
democracy has been no better than dictatorship for the majority.
It will not stabalise till another strong man comes along.


Terry____________________-
Amen! Truly I say to you: Gather in my name. I am with you.

 

[Darkdale]

Why should they.
democracy has been no better than dictatorship for the majority.
It will not stabalise till another strong man comes along.


Terry____________________-
Amen! Truly I say to you: Gather in my name. I am with you.

Well, I personally agree with you, but the Bush Administration believes that democracy can work there and I feel that it is worth a shot, my pessimism aside.

 

[Mr Spinkles]

democracy has been no better than dictatorship for the majority.

Not according to most Iraqis.

Thinking about any hardships you might have suffered since the US/British invasion, do you personally think that ousting Saddam Hussein was worth it or not?

Worth it: 61%
Not Worth it: 28%

Has there been an increase or a decrease in the family income compared to that of before the war?

Increase: 41%
Same: 43%
Decrease: 16%

From: http://www.usatoday.com/news/world/iraq/2004-04-28-gallup-iraq-findings.htm

 

[Scuba Pete]

Spinkles,

While I have no issues with YOUR veracity, the poll seems a bit biased to me:

Methodology:
The USA TODAY/CNN/Gallup Poll of 3,444 Iraqis, the largest and most comprehensive poll in Iraq since last year’s invasion, was administered by the Pan Arab Research Center of Dubai.

Interviews were conducted between March 22 and April 2, with the exception of the governate of Sulaymaniya where interviews ran through April 9. All interviews were conducted in person in the respondent’s home, with an average interview length of 70 minutes. The cooperation rate - the percentage of those contacted who agreed to be interviewed - was 98%.

Two of the three governates in the predominantly Kurdish region, which has its own administrative agencies and has been largely independent from Baghdad for the past decade, did not participate in the poll. To have a full representation of Kurdish views in the poll , additional interviews in the third governate, Sulaymaniya, were conducted.

The margin of sampling error for the poll is +/- 2 percentage points.

There is no indication just HOW these participants were selected. That 2/3s of the country was not polled makes it's conclusions marginal at best. Who knows what agenda this polling company had? Perhaps they would benefit with the US's continued presence? Who knows.

 

[Faint]

I don't really support bush or not support him.I do support the war on terror because we simply can't have any more Sep. 11'ths around here anymore.And about all the lies coming from the white house.Can you name another administration that didn't lie?I heavily doubt it.

yes, it seems to be, because we haven't had another september 11th since then.

We also haven't had any attacks by Godzilla. Clearly the Bush administration is so intimidating that even giant monsters now fear to mess with the U.S.

Do you honestly think that we're gonna win this fictitious "war on terror"? Are we just going to wake up one day and say, "Well that's it! We got 'em all! There's no more terrorists anywhere! Everyone can stop protecting themselves now." Nice fantasy you've got there.

This war never really about spreading democracy or protecting U.S. citizens--it was always about a certain fossil fuel and the immense profit that comes to those who control its distribution. It's not about the fact that all politicians seem to lie--it's about the magnitude of the Bush admin lies, and how those lies get people like you to support a guy who sends other people to get killed so that his family and friends can sleep in golden beds.

 

[Mr Spinkles]

Spinkles,

While I have no issues with YOUR veracity, the poll seems a bit biased to me:

There is no indication just HOW these participants were selected.

Generally, the participants are selected as randomly as possible. Do most newspapers indicate how all the participants were selected?

That 2/3s of the country was not polled makes it's conclusions marginal at best.

No, 2 out of 3 of the governates in the Kurdish region were not polled. To make up for this, additional interviews were done in the third Kurdish governate.

Who knows what agenda this polling company had? Perhaps they would benefit with the US's continued presence? Who knows.

You mean the Gallup organization? It would certainly benefit from being as accurate as possible, since it depends on its reputation. Besides, the same poll also reported that the majority of Iraqis want US troops to leave--that's not the kind of thing an organization would report if it wanted the US presence to continue. I have yet to see convincing evidence for Terrywoodenpic's assertion that " democracy has been no better than dictatorship for the majority".

 

[Scuba Pete]

You mean the Gallup organization?

No,
I mean the Pan Arab Research Center of Dubai, that "administered" the poll. It's not hard for ANY orginization with an agenda to skew the results one way or the other. This one seems heavily skewed towards justifying the war. Here I thought that YOU were the skeptical one!

 

[Scuba Pete]

We also haven't had any attacks by Godzilla. Clearly the Bush administration is so intimidating that even giant monsters now fear to mess with the U.S.

Bwahahaha! I wonder if Godzilla is part Korean???

 

[Aqualung]

That's the same lame excuse liberals gave when Clinton lied under oath.

It is. I'm just exposing the hypocrasy of the OP. If he chooses not to like Bush because of his lies, he'd better not like any politician, and I find it hard to believe that he can't find even one politician that he didn't like.

I didn't mean to say that was my reason for excusing bush. I'm like jonny - I support bush as the lesser of the two evils, and because libertarian is a wated vote. But don't hate politcians for lying, because there will never, ever be a politician who doesn't lie.

 

[jonny]

They have to lie to keep us happy. If politicians told us the truth we wouldn't vote for them.

We've created the monster - now we have to deal with it.

 

[Feathers in Hair]

I think I'd vote for any politician that actually told the truth, at this point.

 

[The Black Whirlwind]

We also haven't had any attacks by Godzilla. Clearly the Bush administration is so intimidating that even giant monsters now fear to mess with the U.S.

Do you honestly think that we're gonna win this fictitious "war on terror"? Are we just going to wake up one day and say, "Well that's it! We got 'em all! There's no more terrorists anywhere! Everyone can stop protecting themselves now." Nice fantasy you've got there.

This war never really about spreading democracy or protecting U.S. citizens--it was always about a certain fossil fuel and the immense profit that comes to those who control its distribution. It's not about the fact that all politicians seem to lie--it's about the magnitude of the Bush admin lies, and how those lies get people like you to support a guy who sends other people to get killed so that his family and friends can sleep in golden beds.

umm, that gtrsgrls quote was actually mine. lol. The fact cannot be denied that we haven't had a single terrorist attack on our soil since September 11th. Lets see, if it was about oil, why have the prices skyrocketed instead of going down, like they should be if we have a major influx of oil? supply and demand. there is high demand, and obviously the u.s. is in short supply. unless you have any proof at all, its just another kook conspiracy theory. I don't support the douche in office, but i applaud him for the fact he has been able to keep this country safe from the wackjobs to the east for so long.

 

[The Black Whirlwind]

That's why we have lost thousands in Iraq? My God man, what have we had to pay in civil liberties is amazingly bad.

what civil liberties have we really lost? i haven't noticed anything.

 

[Fluffy]

yes, it seems to be, because we haven't had another september 11th since then.

People have died because of terrorist attacks directly caused by the Iraq invasion. Just because they aren't in America doesn't mean they don't matter nor that Bush doesn't share any of the blame for that.

 

[The Black Whirlwind]

But they aren't in America, which means he's doing something right.

 

[Scuba Pete]

i haven't noticed anything.

I am not sure it's fair to indict yourself like that.

what civil liberties have we really lost?

Have you traveled by air? How about Guantanamo? The government has a much easier time getting the "OK" to wire tap your house (shades of Nixon) and there have been many CITIZENS that have been held without charges for MONTHS.

 

[Aqualung]

They have to lie to keep us happy. If politicians told us the truth we wouldn't vote for them.

We've created the monster - now we have to deal with it.

Excellent post! The fact is, you don't want to hear the truth. People have to get into office. Once they're in office they can start doing the things that just need to be done, but that nobody wanted to elect someone to do.

But they aren't in America, which means he's doing something right.

Yep. Maybe if the other countries would take a tough, no-nonsense stance on terrorism they wouldn't get attacked either.

 

[Feathers in Hair]

what civil liberties have we really lost? i haven't noticed anything.

Have you applied for a checking account, lately?

Have you checked out books on certain subjects?

Are you a member of a (peaceful) peace-activism group?

Have you attended a peace- protest?

Are you a member of a minority ('suspicious') religion?

Are you not even in the slightest worried that people's civil liberties are being suspended, including their right to face their accuser?

If you've not done or are not any of the above, you probably haven't noticed anything.

 

[lilithu]

But they aren't in America, which means he's doing something right.

Um... even if you only care about Americans, what about the fact that over 2,000 American soldiers have been killed in this war? Don't tell me Americans aren't dying with Bush in charge.

 

[Mr Spinkles]

This [poll] seems heavily skewed towards justifying the war.

That is a totally baseless claim. You've neither presented polls by other organizations which support your argument, nor have you demonstrated this poll to be biased; you've simply assumed it's biased out of hand because its results contradict your preconceptions. Not only was the poll designed by Gallup and published by USA Today and CNN, but the results of the poll (skewed or otherwise) certainly don't "justify" the war. The poll also showed that many Iraqis had felt unsafe at night since the war started, that many had been without electricity or water, etc.