• Welcome to Religious Forums, a friendly forum to discuss all religions in a friendly surrounding.

    Your voice is missing! You will need to register to get access to the following site features:
    • Reply to discussions and create your own threads.
    • Our modern chat room. No add-ons or extensions required, just login and start chatting!
    • Access to private conversations with other members.

    We hope to see you as a part of our community soon!

A Rational Reactionary Religion

Flankerl

Flankerl

Well-Known Member
fschmidt said:
Moses also said to kill those who violate the Sabbath. Do you do that? The point is that the details of the law were appropriate for the time, and at that time fire was used for work which is why Moses banned it. It wasn't some arbitrary law, it had logic behind it. But Talmudic Judaism rejects logic. The principle of shabbat is to avoid work, to set the day apart, and to keep it holy. If you light a fire without violating this principle, then you have violated Moses's law (which was for a time and place and is outdated) but not God's law.
Click to expand...

Ah yes of course. Except that this isn't how it's explained in the Torah, it's actually quite straightforward.

Shemot - Exodus - Chapter 35
3 Ye shall kindle no fire throughout your habitations upon the sabbath day.'
3. You shall not kindle fire in any of your dwelling places on the Sabbath day."

Nowhere does it imply that you may ignite a fire if you don't violate a principle.


fschmidt said:
The Israelites did exactly the same when they occupied Israel. Morality primarily applies to how people treat members of their own society.
Click to expand...

Ah so the Shoah was alright because Jews weren't ethnically German.

Well why the **** not.
 
Koldo

Koldo

Outstanding Member
fschmidt said:
Basically yes. Generally good cultures rise and become more productive while evil cultures decline. Today we are living in the decline of Christian culture. Modern culture has gone bad, become evil. I believe this began in the late 1800s with the Christian Second Great Awakening in America. It takes a while for religious error to manifest itself. The 1920s and 1960s were big drops in morality. By now, morality is almost entirely gone.
Click to expand...

Late 1800's? Do you mean our morality ( and culture ) was better off before the abolishment of slavery? Really?
 
F

fschmidt

Old Testament Reactionary
Flankerl said:
Ah yes of course. Except that this isn't how it's explained in the Torah, it's actually quite straightforward.

Shemot - Exodus - Chapter 35
3 Ye shall kindle no fire throughout your habitations upon the sabbath day.'
3. You shall not kindle fire in any of your dwelling places on the Sabbath day."

Nowhere does it imply that you may ignite a fire if you don't violate a principle.
Click to expand...
First, you avoided my question about killing shabbat violators. Now to answer your question, nowhere in the Torah does it say that this law is eternal. Moses said this to the Israelites in a certain time and place, and it was the correct law for that time and place. The Tanakh records broad history and our challenge is to learn from that history principles that we can apply to our time. The lesson to be learned from the prohibition of fire is to avoid work like cooking which fire was used for then.


Ah so the Shoah was alright because Jews weren't ethnically German.
Click to expand...
Joshua was about as bad as Hitler when it came to genocide. I am not fond of either. Both did harm to their own people as well. Hitler caused the destruction of Germany and Joshua murdered some poor guy and has family as well as causing needless division in Israel and stealing all the war plunder for himself.

Also, I said society, not ethnicity. Many Jews were part of German society at that time. (Note my last name.) Racism is never justified, neither the racism of the Nazis nor the racism (ethnicism) of the Talmud.
 
F

fschmidt

Old Testament Reactionary
Koldo said:
Late 1800's? Do you mean our morality ( and culture ) was better off before the abolishment of slavery? Really?
Click to expand...
I oppose slavery, but generally yes. As I said, I judge morality by how people treat members of their own society and slaves weren't considered part of society. Also, only half the country had slavery. In the end, slavery was eliminated from humanity more by labor saving technology than by any great moral insight.
 
Koldo

Koldo

Outstanding Member
fschmidt said:
I oppose slavery, but generally yes. As I said, I judge morality by how people treat members of their own society and slaves weren't considered part of society. Also, only half the country had slavery. In the end, slavery was eliminated from humanity more by labor saving technology than by any great moral insight.
Click to expand...

I am glad you have decided to create your own religion rather than giving a bad name for some other.
 
F

fschmidt

Old Testament Reactionary
Koldo said:
I am glad you have decided to create your own religion rather than giving a bad name for some other.
Click to expand...
Sure. I expect my views to be hated. Modern culture and modern people are evil, so being hated is a good sign that one is doing something right and honest.
 
viole

viole

Ontological Naturalist
Premium Member
fschmidt said:
Basically yes. Generally good cultures rise and become more productive while evil cultures decline. Today we are living in the decline of Christian culture. Modern culture has gone bad, become evil. I believe this began in the late 1800s with the Christian Second Great Awakening in America. It takes a while for religious error to manifest itself. The 1920s and 1960s were big drops in morality. By now, morality is almost entirely gone.
Click to expand...

May I ask if you think it is OK that women have the right to vote?

Ciao

- viole
 
OneThatGotAway

OneThatGotAway

Servant of Yahweh God Almighty
fschmidt said:
No, women should not vote with men. I explain why here: Against Women's Suffrage
Click to expand...

What do you think about Deborah and Queen Eshter? One was brave enough to fight when men were afraid. And both cared for the survival of her men,women, and children; and not just their own children. Many were wiser than men that God spoke through them as prophetesses to guide men and women when thiusands went astray in politics; which by the way is never good for any society. The Holy Scripture told a different side of women's abilities to rationalize and rule. I think Elohim had a different reason for some of the restrictions back then and today. Certain situations calls for women to take charge when faced with certain crisises.
Shabbath Shaloum.
 
Last edited:
F

fschmidt

Old Testament Reactionary
OneThatGotAway said:
What do you think about Deborah and Queen Eshter? One was brave enough to fight when men were afraid. And both cared for the survival of her men,women, and children; and not just their own children. Many were wiser than men that God spoke through them as prophetesses to guide men and women when thiusands went astray in politics; which by the way is never good for any society. The Holy Scripture told a different side of women's abilities to rationalize and rule. I think Elohim had a different reason for some of the restrictions back then and today. Certain situations calls for women to take charge when faced with certain crisises.
Shabbath Shaloum.
Click to expand...
Neither Deborah and Queen Esther had political authority over men. Deborah was a judge in the sense of an arbitrator, and men willingly submitted to her authority, it wasn't forced on them. (She was like Judge Judy today.) Queen Esther had no authority at all.

I assume you didn't read what I linked to. The issue isn't wisdom or intelligence, it is instinct.
 
viole

viole

Ontological Naturalist
Premium Member
fschmidt said:
Sure. I expect my views to be hated. Modern culture and modern people are evil, so being hated is a good sign that one is doing something right and honest.
Click to expand...

Why would anyone hate somebody who is clearly not a threat to anybody?

Ciao

- viole
 
You must log in or register to reply here.
Top