A religion more dangerous than Islam?

[Dawnofhope]

As I understand it, the danger that some people see in Islam is because of the way it deifies the Quran, and because allegedly multitudes of Muslims everywhere in the world want their laws to be part the law of the land.

The Baha'i Faith deifies the Quran as much as Muslims do, and multitudes of Baha'is everywhere in the world might believe that all Baha'i laws will some day be part of the law of the land in every country of the world. Could the Baha'i Faith be even more dangerous than Islam?

I'm not too sure where you are coming from with this OP. The Baha'i Faith is based on what its followers believe is a revelation from God through Baha'u'llah. What Muhammad revealed as recorded in the Quran 1400 years ago is of little consequence now as Baha'u'llah's Revelation has superceded it.

If a country did become 'Baha'i' this would require the majority of the inhabitants to identify as Baha'is and for that country to agree to such a system, presumably through an election process. Any system of governance involving Baha'i laws must have provision for those who don't follow the majority religion of the land.

Its all speculation of course as the Baha'i Faith appears a long way off achieving a majority of the population in any nation. When and if it happens it would most likely be a Pacific Island country that would be first.

The Baha'i Faith has no history of perpetrating violence since Baha'u'llah declared as a Manifestation of God in 1863. Baha'u'llah teaches it is better to be killed than to kill and strict obedience to government so I can't see the Baha'is violently overthrowing a government. Can you?

Out of interest I found this old list of countries with the highest proportion of Baha'is.

Top 20 Most Baha'i Countries -
Countries with the Highest Proportion of Baha'is in the Population


Country Number
of Baha'is Percent of

Country's No of Baha'is % Baha'is

Nauru 1,106 9.22%

Tonga 6,582 6.09%

Tuvalu 580 5.86%

Kiribati 4,321 4.70%

Tokelau Islands 65 4.33%

Cocos Islands 27 3.72%

Bolivia 269,246 3.25%

Falkland Islands 67 2.98%

Vanuatu 5,418 2.78%

Belize 6,941 2.73%

Samoa 4,178 2.37%

Guyana 14,584 2.09%

United Arab Emirates 55,214 1.95%

Sao Tome and Principe 3,011 1.88%

Mauritius 21,848 1.84%

Zambia 162,443 1.70%

Dominica 1,225 1.61%

Micronesia 1,909 1.61%

Niue Island 29 1.53%

Marshall Islands 1,023 1.50%

Source: Year 2000 Estimated Baha'i statistics from: David Barrett, World Christian Encyclopedia, 2000; Total population statistics, mid-2000 from Population Reference Bureau (Population Reference Bureau – Inform, Empower, Advance.).

Adherents.com: Largest Baha'i Communities

Are the Baha'is going to take over the world? It won't happen soon and the world will have ample opportunity to see what a 'Baha'i' country looks like long before any Baha'i laws are widely implemented.

 

[Enoch07]

As I understand it, the danger that some people see in Islam is because of the way it deifies the Quran, and because allegedly multitudes of Muslims everywhere in the world want their laws to be part the law of the land.

The Baha'i Faith deifies the Quran as much as Muslims do, and multitudes of Baha'is everywhere in the world might believe that all Baha'i laws will some day be part of the law of the land in every country of the world. Could the Baha'i Faith be even more dangerous than Islam?

An ideology can become as dangerous if not more than radical Islam.

Even Buddhist have radical sects that kill people.Buddhism and violence - Wikipedia oddly enough the radical Buddhist are anti-islamist.

 

[Vinayaka]

I think any religion whose adherents believe said religion is the best, and the one for all of mankind has the potential to be very dangerous. The first attitude is the need to convert, to proselytise. From there it becomes a slippery slope. The first step on the slope it to deceive, or to exaggerate, to gain converts, rationalising that it's for the good of man anyway. This deception, this adharma can grow like a muddy snowball into using force, violence etc.

At the opposite end of the spectrum are the religions that pose no danger whatsoever as they totally accept people and diversity for what they are, and have no reason to evangelize, proselytize whatsoever.

(Please note the word 'potential'. )

 

[lewisnotmiller]

As I understand it, the danger that some people see in Islam is because of the way it deifies the Quran, and because allegedly multitudes of Muslims everywhere in the world want their laws to be part the law of the land.

The Baha'i Faith deifies the Quran as much as Muslims do, and multitudes of Baha'is everywhere in the world might believe that all Baha'i laws will some day be part of the law of the land in every country of the world. Could the Baha'i Faith be even more dangerous than Islam?

Personally, I've had more reasonable discussion with Quranists than other forms of Islam, so belief in the Quran alone doesn't worry me any more than belief in the Bible does.
Although there is a difference in how the book itself is viewed, obviously.

 

[Salvador]

As I understand it, the danger that some people see in Islam is because of the way it deifies the Quran, and because allegedly multitudes of Muslims everywhere in the world want their laws to be part the law of the land.

The Baha'i Faith deifies the Quran as much as Muslims do, and multitudes of Baha'is everywhere in the world might believe that all Baha'i laws will some day be part of the law of the land in every country of the world. Could the Baha'i Faith be even more dangerous than Islam?

Any religion taken too seriously makes our world a more dangerous place.

 

[Notanumber]

A religion can only be as dangerous as it's followers.

The problem is that Islam has far too many dangerous followers.

 

[Jim]

I'm not too sure where you are coming from with this OP.

It seemed like a good idea at the time.

 

[TransmutingSoul]

The problem is that Islam has far too many dangerous followers.

The biggest danger I see, is our own predudices and how much we let them overtake reason and justice.

Regards Tony

 

[Notanumber]

The biggest danger I see, is our own predudices and how much we let them overtake reason and justice.

Regards Tony

The biggest danger is complacency.

 

[Komori]

This is nothing but a hypothetical danger. It's very unlikely that the Bahāʾī Faith will ever establish a one-world government or cement itself as a one-world religion. Now, these are dangerous ambitions in themselves, but the more real and more immediately present danger of the Bahāʾī Faith is its political involvement. Throughout the years, they've tried to establish this pretense of political quietism, but their connections, interests, and motivations when it comes to both Israel and Iran are quite obvious; this is where the real danger comes in. There is a wealth of evidence attesting to the involvement of Bahāʾīs in the government of Iran during the time of the Pahlavi regime; many Bahāʾīs were even members of SAVAK, the Shah's secret police. The Bahāʾīs have a long history of cozying up to oppressive governments. Bahāʾī leaders posed for pictures with Chilean dictator Augusto Pinochet and Ugandan dictator Idi Amin, and Idi Amin even said of the Bahāʾī teachings: "this is right." This was all documented in the old magazine Bahá'í News.

 

[TransmutingSoul]

This is nothing but a hypothetical danger. It's very unlikely that the Bahāʾī Faith will ever establish a one-world government or cement itself as a one-world religion. Now, these are dangerous ambitions in themselves, but the more real and more immediately present danger of the Bahāʾī Faith is its political involvement. Throughout the years, they've tried to establish this pretense of political quietism, but their connections, interests, and motivations when it comes to both Israel and Iran are quite obvious; this is where the real danger comes in. There is a wealth of evidence attesting to the involvement of Bahāʾīs in the government of Iran during the time of the Pahlavi regime; many Bahāʾīs were even members of SAVAK, the Shah's secret police. The Bahāʾīs have a long history of cozying up to oppressive governments. Bahāʾī leaders posed for pictures with Chilean dictator Augusto Pinochet and Ugandan dictator Idi Amin, and Idi Amin even said of the Bahāʾī teachings: "this is right." This was all documented in the old magazine Bahá'í News.

Well that is so wrong, where would one start.

Actually, that will do.

Regards Tony

 

[danieldemol]

... Bahāʾī leaders posed for pictures with Chilean dictator Augusto Pinochet and Ugandan dictator Idi Amin, and Idi Amin even said of the Bahāʾī teachings: "this is right." This was all documented in the old magazine Bahá'í News.

Lol, have you got a copy of Baha’i News for us to investigate or are you just making stuff up?

 

[Jim]

Well that is so wrong, where would one start.

Actually, that will do.

Agreed. Enough said.

 

[Komori]

Lol, have you got a copy of Baha’i News for us to investigate or are you just making stuff up?

All of the relevant issues from Bahá’í News are available online here:

http://bahai-news.info/bn09/large/bn09_757.gif
http://bahai-news.info/bn09/large/bn09_857.gif
http://bahai-news.info/bn12/large/bn12_228.gif
http://bahai-news.info/bn07/large/bn07_873.gif
http://bahai-news.info/bn08/large/bn08_32.gif
http://bahai-news.info/bn08/large/bn08_33.gif

And there is also this quote from former Baha'i scholar Denis MacEoin

Baha’u’llah wrote directly to rulers to reprimand them for their brutality and repression, while we today pose for pictures with Pinochet and Amin(thank God for your reference to the Pinochet photograph — I thought I was the only person who had noticed it). Yet, the moment anyone lifts a finger to harm Baha’is, in however a minor way, there is a universal outcry and we appeal for aid to the UN and suchlike. The Iranian regime has been massacring its people for decades, and thousands are dying in the present troubles, but the only thing to excite protests from the Baha’is has been the threat of violence to themselves. No mention is made of the fact that Jews or Christians have been threatened or attacked. The fact is that we seem to judge the justice of a regime according to how well it treats the Baha’is. An unjust regime treating us well is tolerated or even extolled, while a popular regime which deprives us of certain freedoms (perhaps along with other religious groups) is regarded as evil. No one has asked, for example, what the people of Iran, as a whole, want, but what would ensure the safety of the Baha’is there; so if thousands of Shi’i Muslims are killed, who cares? — they deserve it anyway for having persecuted the Baha’is.

• "Letter on Bahá’í attitudes towards politics and scholarship.”

 

[Jim]

@Komori I like your avatar.

 

[danieldemol]

All of the relevant issues from Bahá’í News are available online here:

http://bahai-news.info/bn09/large/bn09_757.gif
http://bahai-news.info/bn09/large/bn09_857.gif
http://bahai-news.info/bn12/large/bn12_228.gif
http://bahai-news.info/bn07/large/bn07_873.gif
http://bahai-news.info/bn08/large/bn08_32.gif
http://bahai-news.info/bn08/large/bn08_33.gif

And there is also this quote from former Baha'i scholar Denis MacEoin

Have you even read the copies of Baha’i News you posted?

There is no trace of anything political in them, and the photos of Idi Amin as I understand it are from when he was a “new president” and had arranged religious leaders of all religions to meet with him.

Idi Amin was initially accepted by the international community and only later rejected as his crimes against humanity became known.

I have more to say, but would encourage you to read what is actually there in the Baha’i News articles

Also your letter from Dennis Maceoin is irrelevant as it’s a quote from an embittered ex-Baha’i and does not reflect the thoughts and attitudes of Baha’is who do stand up for all those persecuted in Iran and elsewhere.

 

[ChristineM]

The problem is that Islam has far too many dangerous followers.

As does christianity, juadism, buddhism etc.

It should be noted that professor Juan Cole estimates that Christians chalked up roughly 50 times more violent deaths than Muslims in the past century

 

[Komori]

Have you even read the copies of Baha’i News you posted?

There is no trace of anything political in them, and the photos of Idi Amin as I understand it are from when he was a “new president” and had arranged religious leaders of all religions to meet with him.

Idi Amin was initially accepted by the international community and only later rejected as his crimes against humanity became known.

I have more to say, but would encourage you to read what is actually there in the Baha’i News articles

Also your letter from Dennis Maceoin is irrelevant as it’s a quote from an embittered ex-Baha’i and does not reflect the thoughts and attitudes of Baha’is who do stand up for all those persecuted in Iran and elsewhere.

If association with and tacit support for political leaders is not political, then nothing is. The reality is that the Baha'is have defined politics as anything that undermines the status quo, and so it is apparently not political that you have writings of Baha'u'llah and others praising the US government and the known racist Woodrow Wilson (whose legacy the Baha'is still defend) and writings of Shoghi Effendi attacking socialism and communism, not to forget of course the whole situation with Israel, where Baha'is cozy up to the Israeli government and ignore the oppression of Palestinians (in fact, they directly benefit from it) — and somehow, no partisan politics is going on here.
Idi Amin was accepted was accepted by the international community (as if that make associating with him okay) because of the fact that he led a coup against Uganda's then socialist president Milton Obote, who was not on good terms with the West; it was the same exact situation with Chile; and you had a fairly similar case with the Pahlavis. Wherever you find Western imperialism, the Baha'is step in to get their own piece of the pie.

 

[TagliatelliMonster]

Any religion taken too seriously makes our world a more dangerous place.

Let's even open that up a bit more.

Any insuficiently supported ideology demanding dogmatic adherence taken too seriously, makes our world a more dangerous place

 

[TransmutingSoul]

If association with and tacit support for political leaders is not political, then nothing is. The reality is that the Baha'is have defined politics as anything that undermines the status quo, and so it is apparently not political that you have writings of Baha'u'llah and others praising the US government and the known racist Woodrow Wilson (whose legacy the Baha'is still defend) and writings of Shoghi Effendi attacking socialism and communism, not to forget of course the whole situation with Israel, where Baha'is cozy up to the Israeli government and ignore the oppression of Palestinians (in fact, they directly benefit from it) — and somehow, no partisan politics is going on here.
Idi Amin was accepted was accepted by the international community (as if that make associating with him okay) because of the fact that he led a coup against Uganda's then socialist president Milton Obote, who was not on good terms with the West; it was the same exact situation with Chile; and you had a fairly similar case with the Pahlavis. Wherever you find Western imperialism, the Baha'is step in to get their own piece of the pie.

That was just as wrong as the first post.

I wish you a great and happy day.

Regards Tony