A religious practice question

[VoidCat]

I've known a lot of autistic people, some of them I know pretty well because they are my friends and (former) neighbours/housemates.
Some of them like to believe they are empathic, while I saw in practice they were completely oblivious of other people's feelings or levels of understanding.

There were a few exceptions though.

I think this maybe due to a lack of social understanding rather then empathy. Autistics do lack social skills its part of the criteria.

 

[A Vestigial Mote]

My question is this: what happened?

From my perspective: some idiots put their hands on you and played "let's make-believe." I've seen the same thing many times.

I was once part of this "prayer circle" within which the guy leading was trying to push down the boy who we were all praying over - and I was there, gently resisting his idiotic attempts to "manufacture a miracle." It was ridiculous - and I very much rather would have pushed that idiot down and told him what I thought of him. Alas... I am not the pushing type, I am afraid, and anyway, had I done such a thing, it would have all ended poorly for me instead - rather than the idiot who I would have rather seen be compromised in some fashion.

 

[Clara Tea]

So a long time ago maybe a year or two ago I attended a Pentecostal Church with my foster parent. This was a regular occurrence...in order for me to attend due to my autism I would bring these big headphones. It would be too loud otherwise and I wouldn't know whats going on plus I would be in pain without them. I forgot them one day. So I stood in the back behind these glass doors. Past the glass doors is where the church pews and service was held. I could hear what was going on altho due to how loud it was and such I had issues processing it. I watch them do this weird thing I didn't understand and hadn't seen before. A person would go up to the pastor the pastor would put their hands on said person say something and the person would fall down. I asked someone about it and they said they were sacrificed. Either that or they said sanctified and my issues with auditory processing got to me. The latter was more likely but with my questions about what she meant regarding sacrificed she decided to not clarify and got mad.Later I did research think it was a practice called slain in the spirit? Anyway since I didn't know what was going on I decided to go find my foster parent and ask her about it. I regretted it almost immediately. I was flapping my hands using vocal stimming trying to ignore the pain of all the sounds looking for my foster parent. The pastor saw me and gestured for me to come forth. I did said I was looking for my foster parent. She said something I didn't understand gestured for me to come closer. She said a bunch of words anointed my head, lead me back and placed her hand on my forehead. I had to resist the urge to scream cuz I was already over stimulated I did not need someone touching me. I caught 4 words only with what she said. Autism. Struggle. Holy Ghost. I was so confused as to what was going on. After that was over I had a meltdown. Too much stimulation. My question is this: what happened? Was this a faith healing? Or like what my friend maybe said sanctifaction/a sacrifice? Something else? And if why would they do whatever it was without asking me and making sure I knew what was going on? It was just so confusing and Ive asked people from the church about it afterwards but they didn't give any answers.

Church leaders touch many little boys, and the little boys don't understand. There are lawsuits now, suing the Catholic church, Boy Scouts of America, and a variety of other groups.

Many of the little boys, so blessed, have mental blocks. Severe mental trauma could block memories. Such trauma could have precipitated effects of autism.

With blocked memories, victims might actually think that they were faith-healed or had contact with a divine entity. Certainly the adult felt something grand and glorious, as well (or he wouldn't have so blessed the little boy).

Mental block - Wikipedia

The website above discusses mental blocks.

 

[Saint Frankenstein]

That autistic people have a higher morality and have more empathy is an inaccurate generalization imo.
I think some people see it that way because autistics tend to be very straightforward and honest and often have a lot of respect for the rules(though they may have "their own" rules).

But I've also seen with my own eyes that autistic people(including myself) are capable of lying and manipulating whenever their ego is at stake or because of peer pressure.
In my experience I would say autistic people can be compassionate, but I've also seen some who were very selfish.
Some came across as very narcissistic; always talking about themselves, looking for compliments and enjoyed belittling others or gossip so that they feel they are in control and maintain a sense of superiority.
I've also known one who was very duplicitous and a kleptomaniac.

People are people and with mental or neurological disorders, various symptoms and traits are often a double-edged sword. For example, with borderline personality disorder, we're very sensitive and can be very compassionate with others, but BPD is also correlated with stalking behavior and lashing out at people. I know my care for others has led me to being taken advantage of emotionally and financially by multiple people, so it's not that great a trait to have. I wish I could be harsher to people when they deserve it. Then there's the fact that we exist outside of our disorders and they don't define every aspect of us. People are individual. Even mentally handicapped people can be ******** just because that's how that person is.

 

[VoidCat]

Church leaders touch many little boys, and the little boys don't understand. There are lawsuits now, suing the Catholic church, Boy Scouts of America, and a variety of other groups.

Many of the little boys, so blessed, have mental blocks. Severe mental trauma could block memories. Such trauma could have precipitated effects of autism.

With blocked memories, victims might actually think that they were faith-healed or had contact with a divine entity. Certainly the adult felt something grand and glorious, as well (or he wouldn't have so blessed the little boy).

Mental block - Wikipedia

The website above discusses mental blocks.

What does this have to do with my post? I never said anything about sexual abuse

 

[VoidCat]

Such trauma could have precipitated effects of autism.

Sorry autism is not caused by trauma...

 

[nPeace]

No...had nothing to do with being scared and then falling down. Jesus didn't have a sword or a stick. But that was very creative.

Funny. Why would Jesus need a weapon, when it was known throughout all Judea that this was the man who raised the dead. Some of those men were terrified, when Jesus stepped forward. They stumbled back and fell.
No holy spirit trance.
Jesus was even surprised, and wanted to know, "Wait. Did I not say I am he? What's the matter? Is it not Jesus you are looking for? I am he."
I imagine if Jesus had stretched out a hand to help one up, they would scream. Lol.
The men were no doubt embarrassed.
But carry on with your beliefs.

 

[nPeace]

In the Bible the only people who were ever slain by the Spirit, were killed for lying to God.

LOL . BWL

 

[Kenny]

Funny. Why would Jesus need a weapon, when it was known throughout all Judea that this was the man who raised the dead. Some of those men were terrified, when Jesus stepped forward. They stumbled back and fell.
No holy spirit trance.
Jesus was even surprised, and wanted to know, "Wait. Did I not say I am he? What's the matter? Is it not Jesus you are looking for? I am he."
I imagine if Jesus had stretched out a hand to help one up, they would scream. Lol.
The men were no doubt embarrassed.
But carry on with your beliefs.

It's a nice spin... but apparently they weren't that scared since they beat him and crucified him.

No... in multiple occasions, even when people were possessed, they fell when the anointed was there.

 

[nPeace]

It's a nice spin... but apparently they weren't that scared since they beat him and crucified him.

No... in multiple occasions, even when people were possessed, they fell when the anointed was there.

So maybe those people are possesed.

No where does the Bible say these men were possessed or stricken. So no matter how you try to add to it, it will never become what you believe.
The scriptures clearly say the demons dashed possessed people to the ground.
It doesn't say anything of the sort, in any passage you mentioned to try to make your belief scriptural.
Try to find one scripture that says it. There are none.
@InChrist showed one that would fit, but you don't want that one do you.

 

[Kenny]

So maybe those people are possesed.

No where does the Bible say these men were possessed or stricken. So no matter how you try to add to it, it will never become what you believe.
The scriptures clearly say the demons dashed possessed people to the ground.
It doesn't say anything of the sort, in any passage you mentioned to try to make your belief scriptural.
Try to find one scripture that says it. There are none.
@InChrist showed one that would fit, but you don't want that one do you.

Exactly...those soldiers were not possessed nor does it say they were afraid. They fell 'BACKWARDS" because of the power of God..
You seem to be fearful about going to a pentecostal church. Why? Jesus wasn't afraid of demons... he just cast them out.

 

[nPeace]

Exactly...those soldiers were not possessed nor does it say they were afraid. They fell 'BACKWARDS" because of the power of God..

That's what you say. Never read it.
Is that in some book some pastor wrote?

You seem to be fearful about going to a pentecostal church. Why? Jesus wasn't afraid of demons... he just cast them out.

Why you felt the need to say that is beyond my.
I hope you are not possesed.

 

[Kenny]

That's what you say. Never read it.
Is that in some book some pastor wrote?

John 18:6 When Jesus said to them, I am He, they went backwards (drew back, lurched backward) and fell to the ground. AMPC
John 18:6 As soon then as he had said unto them, I am he, they went backward, and fell to the ground. KJV
YLT when, therefore, he said to them -- `I am [he],' they went away backward, and fell to the ground.

Why you felt the need to say that is beyond my.
I hope you are not possesed.

Possessed by the Spirit of the living Christ.

John 7: 38 He that believeth on me, as the scripture hath said, out of his belly shall flow rivers of living water.39 (But this spake he of the Spirit, which they that believe on him should receive: for the Holy Ghost was not yet given; because that Jesus was not yet glorified.)

 

[nPeace]

Come on Ken. You are not demonstrating humility here.
I can understand if you said, I believe it, even though it's not writen, but to say this is what is in the Bible when the Bible does not say it, is too much. I didn't see this side of you before. What's happening?
You know Saul started out humble, but then pride crept in, and what happened? He lost everything - including his life.

 

[nPeace]

John 18:6 When Jesus said to them, I am He, they went backwards (drew back, lurched backward) and fell to the ground. AMPC
John 18:6 As soon then as he had said unto them, I am he, they went backward, and fell to the ground. KJV
YLT when, therefore, he said to them -- `I am [he],' they went away backward, and fell to the ground.




Possessed by the Spirit of the living Christ.

John 7: 38 He that believeth on me, as the scripture hath said, out of his belly shall flow rivers of living water.39 (But this spake he of the Spirit, which they that believe on him should receive: for the Holy Ghost was not yet given; because that Jesus was not yet glorified.)

Humility is of the spirit of God.

 

[Kenny]

Humility is of the spirit of God.

Moses recorded that he was the most humble man. Maybe your definition is wrong?

 

[nPeace]

Moses recorded that he was the most humble man. Maybe your definition is wrong?

Moses was the most humble man of his time, of course.
I don't recall giving a definition of humble, so what do you mean by "my definition", and it being "wrong".
You seem to be in a fighting spirit, though Ken.
Does it have anything to do with the fact that I am showing you that you are not using the Bible, for this teaching of yours of being slain in the spirit?

Let's talk about that some more. Do you agree that what you have claimed about the men being stricken by the spirit is not written in the Bible, and is therefore simply a belief of those who teach it in their religion, perhaps because they believe that this is what is happening to people who faint, or fall down?

@InChrist rightly used the scriptures to show that those who were stricken by the spirit, ended up dead, and were carried out a stiff. You don't disagree with the scriptures here, do you?

 

[Kenny]

Moses was the most humble man of his time, of course.
I don't recall giving a definition of humble, so what do you mean by "my definition", and it being "wrong".
You seem to be in a fighting spirit, though Ken.
Does it have anything to do with the fact that I am showing you that you are not using the Bible, for this teaching of yours of being slain in the spirit?

Let's talk about that some more. Do you agree that what you have claimed about the men being stricken by the spirit is not written in the Bible, and is therefore simply a belief of those who teach it in their religion, perhaps because they believe that this is what is happening to people who faint, or fall down?

@InChrist rightly used the scriptures to show that those who were stricken by the spirit, ended up dead, and were carried out a stiff. You don't disagree with the scriptures here, do you?

1) I gave multiple examples of people falling as dead in scripture - so I am using the bible (maybe you missed them - would you like me to post them again?)
2) Did you finally see that it did say "they fell backwards"?
3) "Slain by the spirit" - or "falling under the power" - is just a modern terminology trying to express what happens. So, the term isn't in the Bible but what happened is.

LOL And I'll put down the gloves. sorry

 

[nPeace]

1) I gave multiple examples of people falling as dead in scripture - so I am using the bible (maybe you missed them - would you like me to post them again?)
2) Did you finally see that it did say "they fell backwards"?
3) "Slain by the spirit" - or "falling under the power" - is just a modern terminology trying to express what happens. So, the term isn't in the Bible but what happened is.

LOL And I'll put down the gloves. sorry

Please give me the scripture that says they were "falling under the power".

 

[Kenny]

Please give me the scripture that says they were "falling under the power".

Again... we are using a terminology (in English) to try to express what happens:
2 Chron 5:14 So that the priests could not stand to minister by reason of the cloud: for the glory of the Lord had filled the house of God.

Ezekiel 3:23 Then I arose, and went forth into the plain: and, behold, the glory of the Lord stood there, as the glory which I saw by the river of Chebar: and I fell on my face. 24 Then the spirit entered into me, and set me upon my feet, and spake with me, and said unto me, Go, shut thyself within thine house. It took the spirit to get him back up on his feet.

Revelation 1:17 And when I saw him, I fell at his feet as dead. And he laid his right hand upon me, saying unto me, Fear not; I am the first and the last:

John 18:6 As soon then as he had said unto them, I am he, they went backward, and fell to the ground.

Sometimes, you are sooo wobbly that people can think you are drunk:

Acts 2:13 Others mocking said, These men are full of new wine.

There are many other manifestations when God's presence is thick (so to speak)