A request for a Sanatana Dharma DIR- Dharmic and Staff members Only

[atanu]

I thought Arya Dharma referred to all Indian religions including Buddhism and Jainism?

Yes. On many occassions, Suttas call Buddhist dharma and knowledge as Arya.

 

[Kalicharan Tuvij]

Yes. In many occassions, Suttas call Buddhist dharma and knowledge as Arya.

And that is the point.
This is why Arya is preferable over Vaidika, because whereas Vaidika almost with mathematical accuracy draws a clear distinction between our Dharma and the others such as Buddhist etc which Dont follow Veda, on the other hand Arya doesn't bother to be entirely exclusive. This is the true nature of our Dharma, and should remain like this.

I request you go through this page where this fact is clearly explained.

 

[Poeticus]

And that is the point.
This is why Arya is preferable over Vaidika, because whereas Vaidika almost with mathematical accuracy draws a clear distinction between our Dharma and the others such as Buddhist etc which Dont follow Veda, on the other hand Arya doesn't bother to be entirely exclusive. This is the true nature of our Dharma, and should remain like this.

I request you go through this page where this fact is clearly explained.

The better term, imo, would be​

... agnitra ...​

​

 

[Kalicharan Tuvij]

The better term, imo, would be​

... agnitra ...​

​

What if I say Arya and Agnitra denote spiritually the same thing?

 

[ratikala]

namaskaram Hinduism♥Krishna :namaste

I think here by ''she'' you are refering to Asha ji ?.....

but may I also pick up on something you say here ....

Ok.... She'll clarify here.....What she wants & why not by any descriptional title according the subject of subdir.... Sanatana Dharma would be surely non descriptional title as it doesn't mean what subdir's motive is....Sanatana Dharma words should not be used to bound to narrow minded subdir. And it shouldn't be used by any sects definitions of Sanatana Dharma...there are some hindu sects who think their sects as Sanatana and others as non-sanatana. There's possibility of hijacking from such sects or there could have been conflicts because of them.

prabhu ji , here you are making a very bold assumption ....how can you say or assume that conversations that might take place will be narrow minded ???

here you also refer to some sects who Identify with Sanatana Dharma ....and that some sects do not ....then what is the harm in letting those who do identify as Sanatana Dharma hold conversations between them selves without interruption ?

What does this have to do with Hijacking ? or conflict ? ... the conflict here comes from people who want to inforce their beleifs on others and who will not let another person have their veiw or discuss the veiw that they have been taught .

the whole purpose of theis request is to have a quiet place for those that do Identify as Sanatana Dharmi to talk freely amongst them selves without upsetting the general Hindu DIR

Prabhu ji do you realise how upsetting it is to be told that the veivs of your Sampradaya dont count ? or that what one is taught by ones guru is in some way incorect or invalid as per the opinion of Hinduism in general ?

this is a total noncence ... what is spioling Hinduism Dir at the moment and Hijacking many threads are arguments about what constitutes Hinduism , if Athism is valid within Hinduism or not ? and your references to and criticisms of Iskcon do not help .

This is what Iskconites think and Iskcon is not all hinduism. Now another confusion for me.. . Should we consider this request as per your personal view or as per Iskcon's view?

why do you fear Iskcon so much ? ....why can you not just let them be ? ...of course they are not ''all hinduism '' but neither is your veiw .

and yes ths is my personal veiw , it is not an Iskcon veiw that I am giving , but it is true that many Iskcon devotees do share this veiw , although probaly not all , I do not know . I actualy do not have a lot of contact with Iskcon except through a few friends .
It is also things like this that disrupt and Hijack threads ....

We don't want a play in names.. ( I have rated thia thread as * terrible )

if it is not to your liking then please go away and let others discuss in peace , if you have nothing good to say please do the noble thing and say nothing ,

I just want a peacefull place to discuss my love of Sanatana Dharma .

 

[Nyingjé Tso]

Ah, I was waiting for the "bad westerners" speech.

I'm not done with my faith, never, I am proud to be Hindu and will forever remain so. But with this place ? Yes, I'm done.

good job guys, now do whatever you wish, I have nothing more to say or do here.

 

[atanu]

I believe practicality is the best approach.
There really is no need to rename anything.
It would be more reasonable to have a few
sub-DIRs, like Vaishnava, Shaiva, Shakta,
and related paths. For those with a slight
or even ardent syncretic touch, RF has def.
been kind enough to provide a syncretic/
universalist DIR, a point that has been
repeatedly and consistently expressed
by numerous mods and RF admins.​

I think this is the best suggestion. Additionally we may also consider three or four streams for dvaita, visistadvaita, advaita, achintya bheda abheda .. etc. And another stream dedicated for scriptures and darsana-s will really be nice.

 

[Ravi500]

Arya is a Sanskrit word and it has occurred in Hindu texts only. What made Hitler appropriate this word? Is Arya a German word? No. English word? No.

I am grateful for your comments against the wilful misinterpretation of the term Arya in the past.

This is especially serious as many racist movements still use this term to inflict violence on those perceived as different , including Hindus and Indians.

It is one thing when outsiders appropriate one's own religious symbols and terms to create demented separatist and violent ideologies. It is an another thing when Hindus/Indians become victims of such racist violence as well.

It is high time we prevented the appropriation of our cultural symbols and terms for evil purposes.

 

[Ravi500]

You are factually wrong here. Zoroastrians also use the word Arya. Alexander's historians mentioned Ariana, and he established Alexandria Ariana at what we know today as Herat, Afghanistan. Alexandria Ariana - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia .

Yes, but they do they use the same term in a similar way as in Hinduism.

Perhaps the word invokes guilt (anti-semitism) in a western mind, but I am a Hindu, probably of an Aryan descent (Kashmiri brahmin, color fair (by Indian standards), eyes bluish-green). .

And I have also stated the historical and genetic links of the kashmiris to the jewish people . There are many kashmiris who have stated their jewish origin too. I remember reading such a blog by a kashmiri doctor a few months back.

This is reasonable considering the proximity of Kashmir and Israel around the Silk Route. Ancient jewish tribes fleeing political instability have come to Kashmir a long time back and settled down there adopting the Hindu religion.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Silk_Road

This is one of the reasons why the kashmiris are quite distinct in terms of features from the rest of the Indian population.

For me it is sacred history. My people had a deal with the indigenous people and assimilated with them. We accepted their Gods and Goddesses, and their philosophy. They accepted Vedas and Sanskrit. It worked to the benefit of both people. I have no reason to regret what my forefathers did.Well, there will always be chauvinist people.Have you done something which deserves a ban? Why would RF ban you?Why would a westerner of noble heart and commitment would think of such a step?

Jai Sri Ram.

The issue over here is of using the term Arya as per the scriptural teachings and not as per other reasons, which bring in an exclusivist tone to the Hinduism forum.

 

[Madhuri]

Rules Reminder

It has been noted by staff that a number of RF members have been or are members of other internet forums. When referring to other forums, please keep these rules in mind:

4. Spam and Advertising/Off Topic Posts

There are many types of electronic spam:

2)Advertising of sites and forums that might appear to be in competition to RF requires the permission of an administrator.

9. Bashing Other Forums

Where it is necessary to the context of a thread, it is permissible to mention other forums/boards and their content. It is never permissible to attack them or belittle them or show them in a bad light. Posts that do so, will be edited or removed and may be subject to moderation.​

 

[Elector]

namaskaram

Pranams,

Thank you for your post, it was very enlightening

may I politely explain that it was never my wish to say that Buddhism , Jainism and Sikhi should be clasified under Sanarana Dharma

What prompted me to think this was your statement "...the principles of Sanatana Dharma form the foundation also of other traditions such as Buddhism jainism and sikhi...". My apologies if I misunderstood your intention.

My initial question was merely meant to ask what kind of principles would Sanatana Dharma have which are shared by all Hindu traditions... It seems to me the similarities between all the Hindu sects are minimal, to the point that a forum dealing only with the similarities would be completely redundant.

 

[Aupmanyav]

My initial question was merely meant to ask what kind of principles would Sanatana Dharma have which are shared by all Hindu traditions ..

Dharma is the least common denominator in Hinduism. I do not think anybody will go against that.

 

[Elector]

Pranams,

Dharma is the least common denominator in Hinduism. I do not think anybody will go against that.

True. But is it necessary and logical to create a new forum that is solely dedicated to discussing Dharma?

 

[ratikala]

namaskaram Elector ji :namaste

Pranams,

Thank you for your post, it was very enlightening


What prompted me to think this was your statement "...the principles of Sanatana Dharma form the foundation also of other traditions such as Buddhism jainism and sikhi...". My apologies if I misunderstood your intention.

My initial question was merely meant to ask what kind of principles would Sanatana Dharma have which are shared by all Hindu traditions... It seems to me the similarities between all the Hindu sects are minimal, to the point that a forum dealing only with the similarities would be completely redundant.

Thank you for your respnce ,

when I first made the comment "...the principles of Sanatana Dharma form the foundation also of other traditions such as Buddhism jainism and sikhi...".

I was very much thinking of the principles held in common by all Dharmic faiths , I did not for one moment think it would bring about so much dissagreement between Hindus

you say ...

It seems to me the similarities between all the Hindu sects are minimal, to the point that a forum dealing only with the similarities would be completely redundant.[/quote]

this is very true of the philosopical veiw points and cultural / devotional practices , ...and it is these differences which have caused so much contention of recent .

from outside these dissagreements seem to be based upon sectarian , national and cultural prides . such ego centered arguments are only destroying that which we think that we cherish .

To my mind if we truely love and value our faith , we will not want to be the cause of its destruction , we will want to share its glories and see it prosper , seeing others benifit from it will be our greatest pride and joy .

for this reason I proposed this Sub Section , Sanatana Dharma DIR ....

A place where we can come to gether to find commonality and banish the differences that cause such disharmony .

when I say foundation I am refering to that truth upon which all Dharmic religions are built , which begins with a recognition of a Natural order which regulates this and all Universe's and everything within ,
we may argue about its name or its form but it is this Rtam , this truth that Dharma 'supports' , it is the Divine law that canot be broken therefore Sanatana Dharma is the eternal principlse which support this Divine law .

the Rig veda speaks of Rta as an all pervasive force of truth , of Law , of order , ...Lord Buddha appeared to re establish the Dharma by setting in motion the wheel of law , Mahavira came very similarly to reform , to re establish order demonstrating the utmost Humility , surrender and atainment , teaching the values of Ahimsa , respect , ..Satya , truthfulness , ..Asteya , non-stealing , ..Bramhacharya , chastity ,.. Aparigraha , non-attachment , thus curbing covetousness he created ordered society , social justness , ....and Kabir who oposed the dogmatism of both Hinduism and Islam went beyond the Quran and the Vedas and embarking upon the path of Sahaj , shunning the caste system he spoke of oneness in god , so much so that both Hindus and Sikh's revere him as their Saint , each of the above sought to reform through returning to the simple principles which 'support' Rtam .... this simplicity I am calling Sanatana Dharma .

If Hindus do not see the value in this eternal Dharma , then they will destroy all hope of order , all societal harmony . their ego's will be their undoing , their sectarianism their own imprisoner , ....

I am not against the contiontuance of each tradition , but I am against the beleif that any tradition is Jnana alone we need to put wisdom to work and put it into practice we need to embrace Ahimsa with love and compassion for all others even our enemies, for compassion has no enemies and the true Bhakta has no sect .

so in my Sanatana Dharma my practice is the compssion of Buddhism , the Bhakti yoga of the devotee , and my Jnana the Dohas of Kabir ....

as it is these qualities which bring us closser to true knowledge , all else is rhetoric ,
the aquired knowledge that pretends to understanding .

so please will any one discuss with me the joyfulness of 'that which' supports and brings us to true knowledge and love of god ?

or is this not a fittingly Hindu concept ?

 

[Poeticus]

when I say foundation I am refering to that truth upon which all Dharmic religions are built , which begins with a recognition of a Natural order which regulates this and all Universe's and everything within ,
we may argue about its name or its form but it is this Rtam , this truth that Dharma 'supports' , it is the Divine law that canot be broken therefore Sanatana Dharma is the eternal principlse which support this Divine law .

the Rig veda speaks of Rta as an all pervasive force of truth , of Law , of order , ...Lord Buddha appeared to re establish the Dharma by setting in motion the wheel of law , Mahavira came very similarly to reform , to re establish order demonstrating the utmost Humility , surrender and atainment , teaching the values of Ahimsa , respect , ..Satya , truthfulness , ..Asteya , non-stealing , ..Bramhacharya , chastity ,.. Aparigraha , non-attachment , thus curbing covetousness he created ordered society , social justness , ....and Kabir who oposed the dogmatism of both Hinduism and Islam went beyond the Quran and the Vedas and embarking upon the path of Sahaj , shunning the caste system he spoke of oneness in god , so much so that both Hindus and Sikh's revere him as their Saint , each of the above sought to reform through returning to the simple principles which 'support' Rtam .... this simplicity I am calling Sanatana Dharma .

But that's not even Rta-m.​

 

[ratikala]

But that's not even Rta-m.​

you refute but you do not explain ???

 

[Aupmanyav]

True. But is it necessary and logical to create a new forum that is solely dedicated to discussing Dharma?

Initially, I thought there was no need. But then, a DIR for what the dharmic religions consider as 'dharma' may not be a bad idea. It may be termed as 'Dharma' DIR. The word 'Sanatana' is too closely associated with Hinduism, though all would agree that 'dharma' is sanatana, forever. It can be a fith DIR under the Dharmic Religions DIR along with Hindu, Jain, Buddhism, and Sikhism DIRS, so that nobody feels slighted or compelled to become a part of what they may not be a part of. But the decision depends on what Mods and RF may want to do and what is conveniently possible.

I have a simple suggestion for the Hinduism DIR. Make the blue DIR into 'Hindu - devotional'; and make the green 'Vedanta' DIR into 'Hindu - discussions'.

 

[Poeticus]

Initially, I thought there was no need. But then, a DIR for what the dharmic religions consider as 'dharma' may not be a bad idea. It may be termed as 'Dharma' DIR. The word 'Sanatana' is too closely associated with Hinduism, though all would agree that 'dharma' is sanatana, forever. It can be a fith DIR under the Dharmic Religions DIR along with Hindu, Jain, Buddhism, and Sikhism DIRS, so that nobody feels slighted or compelled to become a part of what they may not be a part of. But the decision depends on what Mods and RF may want to do and what is conveniently possible.

I have a simple suggestion for the Hinduism DIR. Make the blue DIR into 'Hindu - devotional'; and make the green 'Vedanta' DIR into 'Hindu - discussions'.

But what is wrong with the
current setup ? There is already
a Dharmic Religions DIR. It is
made exactly for the purposes of
the above.​

 

[Poeticus]

you refute but you do not explain ???

Rta-m is the central tenet of the agnitra, the conduct of the
yajna. It is the conduction of the yajna that helps 'sustain'
Rta-m. This concept is not 'sustained' by ways that are
of an-agnitra. Furthermore, to acknowledge the existence
of Rta-m, one must acknowledge the existence of the Dual
Ordinance that is Mitra-Varuna, the very epitomizing of Satya-Rta,
respectively. It ceases being Rta-m outside of the Vedic paradigm.​

iti śruteḥ: thus it is revealed​

 

[Ravi500]

And my own request, is as I had stated in an earlier post....

http://www.religiousforums.com/forum/3737623-post2.html


I believe adherence to this itself, will go a long way in ensuring order and harmony in the forum, both Hinduism and Vedanta, in the present and future as well.