A Response to If_U_Knew: Jesus, the Law, and 1st century Judaism

[IF_u_knew]

Quote:
The Jewish mind is brilliant ...



Hint, how many "Jews" do you know go on about the teachigns of Paul and Jesus???? How many nah she aint no Jew....

What are you referring to in point 2?

I do find it funny when christians act like they are more Jewish than Jews themselves... I know of a methodist who decided she was a kabbalist, after reading some texts. She even goes around speaking as though she is a Jew, has a webste dedicated to the torah.... Yet she's a methodist! Its not like she ever actually converted... or even stepped intoa temple.. It takes all types.

Eunuchs, from "my" perspective is similar to Thomas 114, which is about transformation and union of opposites. Which has little, or in reality nothing to do with removing testicles

I actually am quite flattered that all I stated was "the Jewish Mind is brilliant" and you both assume that I am claiming to be Jewish. I have in fact stated the opposite many times. I am not converted to Judaism... yet (meaning, I have not gone through the process which is set in place by those in authority; which I have no problem to go through it and indeed find it a necessary process for those who are not Jewish to start out with so that we fully understand exactly what it is we are choosing to become a part of).

Still having grown up in the message of Paul and seeing the damage it does to people, of course I am going to find priority to speak against it being attached to the Tanakh. It distorts the message of Jesus which in turn has caused many to believe the Tanakh is "old".. only good for using bits and pieces of to claim that Christians are the replacement of the Jews. I think it impossible that anyone can replace this People; especially with Christianity which is wholly oppositional in what the Tanakh is speaking to.

Christianity speaks of death and the Tanakh speaks of Life.

 

[Mr Cheese]

There were many Jewish groups once, all we have now are about two... the idea that Jews havent changed just evolved or grew is a bit silly, considering entire groups have gone!

I said Judaism hasn't changed, but rather evolved.

Frankly I dont think Jesus was a Jew (one of the two remaining groups), and nor do I find the bible the end of my entire focus upon the divine i.e. it is not no.1, nor is it the no.1 source for the teachings of Jesus, in my opinion....

Of course it wasn't where he got enlightenment FROM... it was what he was enlightening the People to. There is a difference.

Given the claim in Matthew 5:17-19, I am correct. And given that Oberon agrees with my interpretation of Isaiah, along with the claim in Matt. that this is what Jesus is speaking to (the Law and the prophets), then it is safe to say that Eunuchs is speaking of those who are "cut off" from the People and/or the Land.

I think Jesus was from a non mainstream Judaic group, and was trying to bring them back to "rightful" teachings....

away from blood sacrifice, away from false worship of a God who was petty, small minded, arrogant, over demanding and liked war and murder.

He chose life...they chose death. Sadly I think most christians have chosen death also.

 

[Mr Cheese]

I actually am quite flattered that all I stated was "the Jewish Mind is brilliant" and you both assume that I claiming to be Jewish. I have in fact stated the opposite many times. I am not converted to Judaism... yet.

And having grown up in the message of Paul and seeing the damage it does to people, of course I am going to find priority to speak against it. It distorts the message of Jesus which in turn has caused many to believe the Tanakh is "old".. only good for using bits and pieces of to claim that Christians are the replacement of the Jews. I think it impossible that anyone can replace this People; especially with Christianity which is wholly oppositional in what the Tanakh is speaking to.

Christianity speaks of death and the Tanakh speaks of Life.

Paulianity is certainly not a "replacement" or continuation of Judaism...

Judaism is rather complex....

have you explored the talmud for example?

 

[IF_u_knew]

Paulianity is certainly not a "replacement" or continuation of Judaism...

Judaism is rather complex....

have you explored the talmud for example?

Oh yes! When I did finally start exploring it for my own self after having the realization that the Jewish are not at all the evil awful People who needed to be saved from their ownselves, I found much wisdom written in there.

It is the same that is done with the Tanakh. Other people take bits and pieces from it to distort what is being said and well... given the distortions, it is no wonder so many dislike and lack trust for the Jews (well, their imagined version of the Jews anyway).

While I focus mainly on the Scriptures in discussions for the purpose to help change this distortion that has been done to it and the People, I have no problem to read what else is important to the Jewish. I love that the Jewish, and their religion Judaism, encourages people to discuss and use their minds.

Still, again, right now .. the path I am being brought down is to apply what I have learned from my experiences to the Scriptures.

That is how it is I came to understand the Eunuch.. and then the more I look, the more that I see that it is, indeed, how it is used in the Tanakh. If it is the Truth we are after, then at least the line of thought that I have been trying to share regarding Jesus' teachings could be considered, no?

Other of the Jewish have not the problem to consider it. I have lived amongst the lines of thinking that others are giving to the Eunuch and I do not see that any of them have been echoed from the Tanakh, nor do they offer anything of importance in the way that the interpretation of Isaiah's Eunuch gives to the world. And thus, the confusion... Oberon at least has finally agreed that the interpretation I have come to see CAN INDEED be found in the Tanakh...

If Jesus is going to be claimed by so many as being Jewish, then this is what he was speaking of.

Mr. Cheese, I have no problem to see the NT taken off of the TAnakh. And having lived under the oppression of Christianity (constantly feeling guilty even just for breathing.. and I am not being dramatic, but really very serious), I can not help but to want to speak against this by making those who claim Christianity is replacement for the Jewish and the NT is replacement for the Tankah to be consistent at least. If not, then they should be honest enough to admit the NT does not belong attached to the Tanakh.

At some point, someone has to try, no? Jesus' teachings are attached to the Tanakh and thus, the meaning of it needs to be compatible with what is in the Tanakh. Else, it should not be attached there. If it is compatible with another writing, then THAT is the writing it should be attached to. Do you see my point?

 

[IF_u_knew]

He chose life...they chose death. Sadly I think most christians have chosen death also.

I am so happy to see that we agree on this point. You are right about the latter and you are VERY correct to say "sadly." That is exactly what it is they are choosing. I value all life for what it is .. part of the creation of God. What the Jewish People brought into the world is Wisdom.. aka Beauty. It is the misunderstanding that your Laws are for ALL people rather than for YOUR People, Israel.. a Nation. And yes, the Laws are gorgeous for they deal in Justice and NOT oppression/guilt; but other than Paul.. never have I heard of the Jewish imposing them on other peoples of the world.

That they were distorted to rather bring guilt is very sad, for if the wisdom of the Laws were seen, more people would have the knowledge of Life rather than seeking death. Even Ecclesiastes 9:10 states the obvious.. that there is no knowledge, nor wisdom, nor device, nor work in the grave. Thus, it is VERY sad to see these Christian Leaders incite fear for purposes of manipulation when they claim that hell exists in death. What angers me is they use the Tanakh, a Book on the Wisdom of Life for the Jewish, as their platform to support their doctrine of lies (which puts the Jewish People in a very dangerous position, as history has clearly shown).

Oh.. and my position of hell is that it is in life and it is not for purposes of punishment, but to rather teach. It is where I learned to hear the Voice in the words of the Tanakh and even further astounding, was to see what I experienced actually written out clearly in the Tanakh. Deut 4:12 and Zech 13:9 only being a couple of the MANY examples that the "fire" is not a bad thing where one goes to be abandoned by God.. rather it is where He puts them for the purpose of enlightening their eyes to these words written. That can only happen in Life.