a sad day in NC

[waitasec]

Just the opposite.

a sad and pathetic truth at sometimes...

 

[Jayhawker Soule]

does this mean democracy isnt working?

Just the opposite.

Correct.

Democracy promises little beyond the ability to constrain the minority. That is no small favor, but it is also no panacea. Fortunately (as noted above) we also have a mechanism to constrain the majority, and that has always been a valuable assert and hopeful ally in times such as this.

 

[9-10ths_Penguin]

I'm not happy with this, but the real issue as I see it is states rights.

Should we have one law of the land? What if we forced all colleges to allow gun carry?

This is just a hypothetical question, but would it not be better to let all the bigots live in one state?

I don't think this is a states' rights issue because I think that marriage falls (or should fall) squarely within the scope of the Full Faith and Credit clause. IMO, it makes no sense for marriage in one state not to be recognized in another.

 

[Father Heathen]

Yep. I'm really disappointed with the majority of my fellow Tarheelers.

You must stand out like a sore thumb down there, what with your knuckles being at thigh height rather than along the ground.

 

[Tarheeler]

You must stand out like a sore thumb down there, what with your knuckles being at thigh height rather than along the ground.

That, and the long hair, earing, and kippah (it's multicolored )!
And what's even worse is that I'm raising my kids to be just as bad.

I'm just a bad influence on southern society, I guess.

 

[Meow Mix]

does this mean democracy isnt working?

It means that a constitutional democracy which protects the minority from oppression by the majority isn't working.

Democracy, in itself, is just two wolves and a sheep voting on what to have for dinner.

N.C. has proven that they prefer the latter form. They better hope *they* ever end up in the minority if they think it's acceptable for a majority to vote away some minority's rights.

 

[Road Warrior]

It means that a constitutional democracy which protects the minority from oppression by the majority isn't working.

Democracy, in itself, is just two wolves and a sheep voting on what to have for dinner.

N.C. has proven that they prefer the latter form. They better hope *they* ever end up in the minority if they think it's acceptable for a majority to vote away some minority's rights.

It's working, but it also takes time. The two wolves just passed a bill voting on serving up the sheep, but the court system has to rule on it. I'm betting it won't pass the Equal Protection Clause. A Constitutional Democracy isn't perfect. It's often two steps forward, one step back.

 

[waitasec]

i just get very sad thinking about those who have been denied their entire lives....

 

[Road Warrior]

There is a lot of bad in the world, not just NC or this forum. People can be real jerks to each other. They don't need a religion, a political cause or a government to do it either.....but it helps.

 

[Reverend Rick]

I look at it as a process. To get a national law, some times we have to let states go too far first.

This could actually end up being a positve step for gay marriage. This N.C. thing got Obama off the fence on this issue.

Gay marriage will be the law of the land one day. Thank God we are a Republic.

 

[Jayhawker Soule]

There is a lot of bad in the world, not just NC or this forum. People can be real jerks to each other. They don't need a religion, a political cause or a government to do it either.....but it helps.

... much as all of these things can significantly help mitigate the bad in the world.

 

[Road Warrior]

Agreed. They do a lot more good than harm.

 

[Antiochian]

My jumbled thoughts on all this.

I wonder the extent to which the Billy Graham ads affected the outcome. He's basically an evangelical pope. And how sad that he'd use his influence to foster division and hatred when it could have been used in the positive. (The amendment would have passed anyway, I'm sure.)

I say if they're going to ban gay marriage, they should ban divorce and remarriage for straights. Bet that wouldn't go over too well, would it?

This whole thing just makes me furious--to think that there are people who think they have the "god-given" right to tell other people how to live their lives. I do realize things have come a long way, but we have so far to go and I'm losing patience. I'll probably be a senior citizen before I can get legally married.

 

[MysticSang'ha]

My jumbled thoughts on all this.

I wonder the extent to which the Billy Graham ads affected the outcome. He's basically an evangelical pope. And how sad that he'd use his influence to foster division and hatred when it could have been used in the positive. (The amendment would have passed anyway, I'm sure.)

I say if they're going to ban gay marriage, they should ban divorce and remarriage for straights. Bet that wouldn't go over too well, would it?

This whole thing just makes me furious--to think that there are people who think they have the "god-given" right to tell other people how to live their lives. I do realize things have come a long way, but we have so far to go and I'm losing patience. I'll probably be a senior citizen before I can get legally married.

I can only marginally share your pain. I was dating a woman and had a long term relationship with her, was madly in love with her, imagined us sharing our lives together, when DOMA was passed.

I felt not only hit in the gut, but ran over by a truck. It was absolutely devastating to me as a woman in love.

I'm so sorry. :flower:

 

[waitasec]

heard this on NPR...

'i'm not against same sex marriage, i'm for the bible"


which is code for
'i'm against same sex marriage but i'm too much of a chicken **** to admit it to myself'

 

[Road Warrior]

That strikes me as code too. Worse, it strikes me as someone who says "I don't care what the First and Fourteenth Amendments of the Constitution say, you're going to do it my way!!"

 

[Meow Mix]

heard this on NPR...

'i'm not against same sex marriage, i'm for the bible"


which is code for
'i'm against same sex marriage but i'm too much of a chicken **** to admit it to myself'

That strikes me as code too. Worse, it strikes me as someone who says "I don't care what the First and Fourteenth Amendments of the Constitution say, you're going to do it my way!!"

I think people deserve to have that opinion all they want as long as they don't actively oppress others over it. I appreciate people who are ideologically against homosexuality; but who do not choose to try to oppress it -- just like, say, some Christians are ideologically against practicing Wicca; but do not choose to try to oppress it.

I don't get the difference: some of these people voting to oppress homosexuals seem to agree with equality in terms of practicing religion (such that they wouldn't, say, vote on an amendment to ban some other religion that their religion disagrees with), but then they turn around and totally hypocritically deny that same notion of equality to homosexual couples. Why?! Is it somehow "more wrong" in your book than worshipping another God?

If you think about it, worshipping other gods is in the "big 10" -- homosexuality is not. How hypocritical!!!

 

[Road Warrior]

I think people deserve to have that opinion all they want as long as they don't actively oppress others over it. I appreciate people who are ideologically against homosexuality; but who do not choose to try to oppress it -- just like, say, some Christians are ideologically against practicing Wicca; but do not choose to try to oppress it.

Agreed. That is exactly where the line is crossed. It's fine to disagree with something, but to force one's opinions on others is unAmerican. It's repressive, authoritarian to a dictatorial extreme and it goes against every ideal which has made this country "Home of the Free, Land of the Brave".

 

[waitasec]

Agreed. That is exactly where the line is crossed. It's fine to disagree with something, but to force one's opinions on others is unAmerican. It's repressive, authoritarian to a dictatorial extreme and it goes against every ideal which has made this country "Home of the Free, Land of the Brave".

wait, are you talking about theocracy?

 

[Road Warrior]

No, just the idea of politically forcing one's will on others over a matter that is beyond their control. People are born gay just as they are born with specific racial and gender characteristics. It'd be like passing a law that autistic people can't have children or that someone who isn't genetically "pure" wouldn't be allowed to live in the womb.

This is why those one the extreme Christian right are so fervent in their belief that homosexuality is a "lifestyle choice", not a matter of genetics.

Hence the saying "Republicans believe everything is genetic except homosexuality, while Democrats believe nothing is purely genetic except homosexuality".