A serious question for the religious types about gay and trans people

[9-10ths_Penguin]

So your religion requires you to murder men who sleep with other men? How many gay men have you killed?

@shava

Still waiting for a reply. What's your answer?

If you really take this verse seriously, you have two options:

- the psychopathic approach: you really do think you should be killing gay people.

- the hypocritical approach: you don't think gay people should be killed. You demand that gay people obey a verse that you don't feel the need to obey yourself.

So which is it? Pick your poison.

 

[Unveiled Artist]

You can't keep sinning and expect Jesus to forgive you, that's not how it works. That's like a person who decides to become a Christian and goes back to stealing, do you really think that this person is going to be forgiven, I assure he will not. Being gay is a sin, but if a person decides to become a Christian and leaves that sinful life of being gay, that person will be saved. Human standards is another issue, we're talking about God's standards to become a Christian and being saved. A person whose in jail or not and decides to turn there life around can be saved by Acts 2:38, Romans 16:16, non instrumental.

There is no such thing as being gay. If that's the case, straight people are gay too. Scripture talks about promiscuity (Rom. 1:26–27) and breaking the bond/male-female intercourse (I'll say) between husband and wife (Ephesians 5:25-33 -securing the marriage and sanctity between male and female and their bodies). Scripture does not talk about gay people nor does it mention GLBT in any verse. It defines homosexuality as an action.

A person is gay even when he sleeps with a woman.

A person is gay even when he has never slept with anyone

You are mixing someone who is gay with someone (GBLTWAS [yes, S] etc) who commits homosexual actions. The former isn't in scripture. The latter is.

Your argument has nothing to do with gay people specifically.

 

[SomeRandom]

When the moral code of society starts to unravel, then the result is crime and war.
As the society decays, more and more people become collateral damage.

Sexuality is right at the core of the psyche, it defines our relationships to other people.
When sexuality becomes illogical, it shows that there is something seriously illogical in how a person is thinking.

Illogical thinking eventually leads to destructive behavior of greater and greater degrees.
People care about these problems because it is logical to care about the suffering of others.

Nobody who is serious about helping people with such problems wants to hurt the person who suffers thus.
But its like when you take a thorn out of a dog's foot, it will often bite you unknowingly.

Its a sure sign that the problem is bad, that when people try and offer help they get attacked.
Its my overwhelming experience, that when I offer advice on the topic (having taught gender psychology at university)
I am often accused of being malicious, when I clearly am only trying to heal the wound.

If war and crime are the result of a immoral society then society has never been moral in all of human history!

 

[shava]

@shava

Still waiting for a reply. What's your answer?

If you really take this verse seriously, you have two options:

- the psychopathic approach: you really do think you should be killing gay people.

- the hypocritical approach: you don't think gay people should be killed. You demand that gay people obey a verse that you don't feel the need to obey yourself.

So which is it? Pick your poison.

Gay people are no different than any other person, as we all have sinned. I seen a need to change my life and chose to live life as a Christian by believing, hearing, repenting of my past sins, confessing Jesus as the Son of God who died on the cross for our sins, and through immersion my sins are washed away, and a new life as a Christian in which I strive to be as Christ like as possible.

Acts 2:38-47, Mark 16:16, Romans 16:16, non instrumental. The bible speaks only of one church and one way to worship, and if you choose to go to a church other than the church of Christ, non instrumental, you will be lost. The Old Testament laws are no longer in effect, and they didn't murder people for committing sins, they did put them to death for certain sins, such as same sex. We put people to death for certain crimes today, do you consider that murder?

Your request for me to reply the way you wish for me to do, isn't going to happen, as I don't respond to requests such as your ludicrous demand.

 

[shava]

There is no such thing as being gay. If that's the case, straight people are gay too. Scripture talks about promiscuity (Rom. 1:26–27) and breaking the bond/male-female intercourse (I'll say) between husband and wife (Ephesians 5:25-33 -securing the marriage and sanctity between male and female and their bodies). Scripture does not talk about gay people nor does it mention GLBT in any verse. It defines homosexuality as an action.

A person is gay even when he sleeps with a woman.

A person is gay even when he has never slept with anyone

You are mixing someone who is gay with someone (GBLTWAS [yes, S] etc) who commits homosexual actions. The former isn't in scripture. The latter is.

Your argument has nothing to do with gay people specifically.

What bible are you reading out of? Can you show me where it says that being gay is ok in the bible?

 

[9-10ths_Penguin]

The Old Testament laws are no longer in effect,

I'm surprised to hear you say this after going on at length about how Old Testament laws apply to gay people.

 

[9-10ths_Penguin]

What bible are you reading out of? Can you show me where it says that being gay is ok in the bible?

It's right near the verses condemning slavery, requiring monogamy, and changing the weekly day of worship to Sunday.

 

[Katzpur]

@shavaStill waiting for a reply. What's your answer?

Man, I hope you're not holding your breath!

 

[Unveiled Artist]

What bible are you reading out of? Can you show me where it says that being gay is ok in the bible?

Please re-read my post.

The Bible does not mention gay people at all.

It talks about promiscuity (1) and another verse about breaking the bonds of marriage with impure acts (2) between any two or more people.

 

[Unveiled Artist]

I do hope you read my post. What you are doing is mixing up homosexual actions with someone who identifies as gay.

There is no such thing as being gay. A person is gay regardless of who he sleeps with or if he slept with anyone at all his whole entire life.

I will clarify:

There is no such thing as being gay. If that's the case, straight people are gay too.
​

If being gay was an action, straight people can be gay too. The Bible does not differientate the two.

Scripture talks about promiscuity (Rom. 1:26–27) and breaking the bond/male-female intercourse (I'll say) between husband and wife (Ephesians 5:25-33 -securing the marriage and sanctity between male and female and their bodies).
​

This has nothing to do with someone who identifies as gay. Any two or more people can be promiscuous and break the bonds of marriage by impure acts. It's in the whole Bible. People in the Bible died because of their actions, their disobedience to god, not their sexual orientation.

Scripture does not talk about gay people nor does it mention GLBT in any verse. It defines homosexuality as an action.
​

Find a verse where sexual orientation is mentioned

A person is gay even when he sleeps with a woman.
A person is gay even when he has never slept with anyone

You are mixing someone who is gay with someone (GBLTQAS [yes, S] etc) (sorry with) sp,epme who commits homosexual actions. The former isn't in scripture. The latter is.
​

Your argument has nothing to do with gay people specifically. Your argument is mute.

 

[9-10ths_Penguin]

The Old Testament laws are no longer in effect, and they didn't murder people for committing sins, they did put them to death for certain sins, such as same sex. We put people to death for certain crimes today, do you consider that murder?

Wait: so you're saying that you wouldn't murder gay people yourself; you just want homosexuality to be a capital crime?

Yeah... that's not psychopathic at all.

 

[Unveiled Artist]

Rats. Where she go?

 

[jeager106]

Why do you care? If I decide to get freaky withy another guy, (I'd pick @columbus so I could be the dude, btw) what possible affect does it have on your life, or your relationship with God? If I decide to get 10 inches of pecker chopped off (ladies, how you doin'?) and wear dresses, how does it impact you?

That does not affect me nor do I give a fat rats a$$.
If a guy sees something sexual in another guys brown round it ain't my issue.
If a man or woman enjoys same gender sex what is that to me?
Anyone is free to engage in all the strange behavior they want.
Note:
Queer/homosexual behavior is reprehensible to me.
I am straight.
Note that Wirey used the term "freaky" to describe sex with another guy.
Evidently Wirey sees sex with another guy as freaky.
Well so do I.
Queer is as queer does.
Queer = something out of the norm according to one undeniable source.


ME!.

 

[jeager106]

Romans 1:27 makes it pretty clear.

New International Version
In the same way the men also abandoned natural relations with women and were inflamed with lust for one another. Men committed shameful acts with other men, and received in themselves the due penalty for their error.

There are other verses.
In Islam homosexuality is punished with DEATH.
Extreme what?
Y'all can google that info up for yourselves.

 

[jeager106]

Why do you care? If I decide to get freaky withy another guy, (I'd pick @columbus so I could be the dude, btw) what possible affect does it have on your life, or your relationship with God? If I decide to get 10 inches of pecker chopped off (ladies, how you doin'?) and wear dresses, how does it impact you?

10" of pecker huh?
BRAGGART!

You make my 7 seem so inferior.
Oh, oh, gonna get banned again I betcha!

 

[shava]

I'm surprised to hear you say this after going on at length about how Old Testament laws apply to gay people.

It's in the New Testament also, as a sin that will prevent one from being saved.

Strong's Greek Dictionary: "unseemly/shame" #808, aschemosune, "an indecency; by implication the pudenda: shame, which is unseemly."

And just what is the "pudenda?"

The American Heritage College Dictionary: pudendum/ pl. pudenda n. "The human external genital organs, especially of a woman" (p. 1127). There it is.

It was the genital organs of the female that:

"...women did change the natural use into that which is against nature [women with women]: And likewise also the men, leaving the natural use of the woman [and her genital organs], burned in their lust one toward another; men with men working [with each other's genital organs] that which is unseemly" (Rom. 1:26-27).

I will not get anymore graphic than that.

Romans 1:26-27 is a very strong condemnation of the list of vile affections starting with sex between women with women, and men with men. And professing faith in the love and Sacrifice of Jesus Christ does not turn this perversion into a virtue.

 

[shava]

Wait: so you're saying that you wouldn't murder gay people yourself; you just want homosexuality to be a capital crime?

Yeah... that's not psychopathic at all.

Why are you deliberately taking what I said and altering it in such a fashion to insinuate I said something that I didn't?

 

[shava]

I do hope you read my post. What you are doing is mixing up homosexual actions with someone who identifies as gay.

There is no such thing as being gay. A person is gay regardless of who he sleeps with or if he slept with anyone at all his whole entire life.

I will clarify:

There is no such thing as being gay. If that's the case, straight people are gay too.
​

If being gay was an action, straight people can be gay too. The Bible does not differientate the two.

Scripture talks about promiscuity (Rom. 1:26–27) and breaking the bond/male-female intercourse (I'll say) between husband and wife (Ephesians 5:25-33 -securing the marriage and sanctity between male and female and their bodies).
​

This has nothing to do with someone who identifies as gay. Any two or more people can be promiscuous and break the bonds of marriage by impure acts. It's in the whole Bible. People in the Bible died because of their actions, their disobedience to god, not their sexual orientation.

Scripture does not talk about gay people nor does it mention GLBT in any verse. It defines homosexuality as an action.
​

Find a verse where sexual orientation is mentioned

A person is gay even when he sleeps with a woman.
A person is gay even when he has never slept with anyone

You are mixing someone who is gay with someone (GBLTQAS [yes, S] etc) (sorry with) sp,epme who commits homosexual actions. The former isn't in scripture. The latter is.
​

Your argument has nothing to do with gay people specifically. Your argument is mute.

It's in the New Testament also, as a sin that will prevent one from being saved.

Strong's Greek Dictionary: "unseemly/shame" #808, aschemosune, "an indecency; by implication the pudenda: shame, which is unseemly."

And just what is the "pudenda?"

The American Heritage College Dictionary: pudendum/ pl. pudenda n. "The human external genital organs, especially of a woman" (p. 1127). There it is.

It was the genital organs of the female that:

"...women did change the natural use into that which is against nature [women with women]: And likewise also the men, leaving the natural use of the woman [and her genital organs], burned in their lust one toward another; men with men working [with each other's genital organs] that which is unseemly" (Rom. 1:26-27).

I will not get anymore graphic than that.

Romans 1:26-27 is a very strong condemnation of the list of vile affections starting with sex between women with women, and men with men. And professing faith in the love and Sacrifice of Jesus Christ does not turn this perversion into a virtue.

 

[Rick O'Shez]

It's ok in the bedroom! Big G doesn't mind if it's in the bedroom.
It's only a sin if it happens in cars, yachts, the woods etc.
You know nuffin'!

Yachts? That sounds very posh! Many moons ago I had a holiday on the Norfolk Broads with a nice lady from Essex, but it was just a small Broads cruiser and rather cramped.
As for cars, I used to have a mini-van, which was also rather cramped, the long gear stick was awkward. Woods are generally a bit damp with sharp sticks, mouldy leaves and the possibility of flashers, so they are not ideal.

Anyway, I hope you are not involved in dogging, that is definitely naughty and sinful!

 

[Rick O'Shez]

4) The sin of Sodom was actually the sin of inhospitality.

This is a common error made by supporters of homosexuality. The problem with this explanation is that it does not account for the offering of Lot's daughter to the men outside the home, a sinful act indeed, but one that was rejected by the men outside who desired to have relations with the two angels in Lot's home. Gen. 19:5 says, "and they called to Lot and said to him, 'Where are the men who came to you tonight? Bring them out to us that we may have relations with them.'" Those men wanted to have sexual relations with the angels who appeared also as males. Does it make sense to claim that God destroyed two cities because the inhabitants weren't nice to visitors? If that were the case, then shouldn't God destroy every household that is rude to guests? Gen. 18:20 says that the sin of Sodom and Gomorrah was "exceedingly grave." Not being hospitable to someone has never been considered an exceedingly grave sin, especially in the Bible. But, going against God's created order in violation of his command to fill and multiply the earth in the act of homosexuality is an exceedingly grave sin. In fact, we know that it is exceedingly grave because in Romans we read about the judgment of God upon the homosexuals, in that he gives them over to the depravity of their hearts and minds. This is a serious judgment of God upon the sinner because it means that the sinner will not become convicted of his or her sins and will not repent. Without repentance there is no salvation, and without salvation there is damnation. Therefore, the argument that Sodom and Gomorrah were destroyed because they were not hospitable carries no validity.

I saw a TV documentary recently where they showed that Sodom was destroyed by an asteroid air-burst - they found a lot of geological and archealogical evidence to support this.