exchemist
Veteran Member
If what you say about desintegración [sic] were true, no long chain molecules would ever form. Didn't you ever do, or see, the "nylon rope trick" at school? Long chains form quite spontaneously, given the right starting materials - and especially so given a helpful catalyst. Don't be such a disintegrarse [sic].First : but every single observation and test shows that desintegración. (disorder is the dominant trend. I you start with a long chain of amino acids they will trend to desintegrarse rather than becoming more complex .
Second nobody is saying that order can not come from disorder, but you need a mechanism as in the example of stalactite. There is no mechanism that would organice aminoácidos in to complex self replicating molecules, in the same way there is no mechanism that would organize junk in to an airplane.
Third , all I am saying is that you need more than "just energy" to overcome statistical thermodynamics. Agree?
So
Ok so let's assume that already have amino acids in a small little pond, we have all types and ratios that you might find convinient, you also have all the sugars and catalists that you would find convinient.
Then what happens? Why did amino acids "descided" to organize themselves in the order and pattern required to make a self replicating protein? There is no natural mechanism that would "force " that pattern, and statistically it could have not happened by chance.
You are remarkably confident in your assertion that there is "no mechanism" by which complex molecules for life can arise. On the contrary, studies in abiogenesis are discovering such mechanisms all the time, though certainly it is a hell of a long haul, given the complexity of the task.
As for "you need more than just energy to overcome statistical thermodynamics" (by which I imagine you must mean entropy), that is not true. Ever come across this equation: ΔG = ΔH - TΔS? This is first yr 6th Form chemistry. The reaction occurs if the change in free energy G is -ve, i.e. the products have less free energy than the reactants. S is entropy and H is enthalpy, the energy in chemical bonds (+PV work but that's detail we don't need to dwell on). T is temperature.
You can see from this (he says, clearing his throat) that it is the combination of the change in bonding energy (ΔH) and the change in entropy (ΔS), plus the temperature of the system, that between them determine whether a reaction will occur or not. So you most certainly can go "uphill" against entropy, as it were. This is how water freezes, ΔH in this case being the Latent Heat of Fusion. When T is high, the TΔS term (which is -ve because entropy goes down on freezing) beats the ΔH term and water stays liquid, but when T falls sufficiently, ΔH wins and it freezes, even though this reduces its entropy.
All reactions are a tussle between the tendency towards disorder on the one hand and lowering the internal energy of the system by forming more, or stronger, bonds, on the other. There are a lot of bonds in a protein so plenty of ways to enable it to minimise its internal energy. This is also why nylon forms spontaneously in the nylon rope trick.
Finally, It seems I need to repeat that nobody says abiogenesis would have happened all at once: that would be silly. We don't know how it happened, but there is absolutely nothing in chemical thermodynamics to say it could not have. If there were, then we would be facing a conspiracy theory, by all the world's abiogenesis researchers. And that would be even sillier.
Comprende, Señor?