A social experiment with fundamentalist Christians

[Jose Fly]

So, are you going to stick with the definition that fundamentalist = Biblical literalist? If so, are you going to stick with the assertion that all Biblical literalists are "extremely paranoid, intentionally ignorant, and genuinely unhappy and angry in a very deep and serious way," crazy-haters who are likely to threaten physical violence against people who do not agree with them, "some very, very disturbed, messed up people?"

*sigh*

Again, Biblical literalism is one of the traits of fundamentalist Christianity. And again, again, again...I urge you to read up on this subject.

So, now fundamentalist Christianity = paranoia, bigotry, xenophobia, anti-modernism, authoritarianism, and extreme black/white thinking. Is this the definition you wish to go with?

You know what? I'm going to take a different approach to this. Rather than me saying that a cross section of fundamentalist Christianity reveals those things, I'm going to start posting examples of modern, mainstream fundamentalist Christian news outlets, organizations, etc. exhibiting those traits.

Then you can decide for yourself.

Hey, I would say fundamentalist Christianity has more than its share of people with these traits, but this is not surprising. Right? Nothing about your 'study' is surprising - you sought a group of fundamentalists with these traits, you found them, and you confirmed your opinion based upon what you found. Happens all the time. Also a logical fallacy if you think you've done anything other use circular reasoning to confirm your own opinion. Crazy-fundies are crazy because crazy-fundies are crazy ... meh.

Again, you're missing the point. Are the "crazies" I encountered atypical of fundamentalist Christianity? We're about to find out.

Well, the psychological literature would be the place I would go to be informed about this should my interest continue. I would not, however, be so misguided as to think that I could do any kind of meaningful test of this by going to a crazy-fundie site and finding *gasp* crazy fundies.

Again, you're missing the point. Read the literature (believe me, it's not at all flattering) and go repeat what I did.

Surely if what I'm describing is so far off base and illogical, it should be trivially easy for anyone here to find a restricted/exclusive fundamentalist Christian group, gain access, question a few of their premises in a polite way, and report your results back here.

But somehow I get the feeling that's not going to happen, and I'm pretty sure I know why.

 

[Jose Fly]

First of all, you are taking the actions of a group of so called Christians and using their actions to criticize Christianity. When in fact Christian teachings themselves criticize such behavior.

No, I did not use that experience to criticize Christianity as a whole.

Secondly, many churchgoers are guilty of adopting the views of the pastorate, without doing any research of their own.

Thirdly, if you want to have a one on one discussion with me, I am quite confident that I can defend Christianity, and use the Bible to do so. So now I am challenging you.

This thread isn't about Christianity. It's about a specific segment of the American Christian community.

 

[Danmac]

No, I did not use that experience to criticize Christianity as a whole.


This thread isn't about Christianity. It's about a specific segment of the American Christian community.

It's about you using your experience to criticize a few ill informed religious folk.

 

[Jose Fly]

It's about you using your experience to criticize a few ill informed religious folk.

A few? Actually, in America fundamentalist Christians make up a pretty significant portion of the Christian community.

 

[Jacksnyte]

A few? Actually, in America fundamentalist Christians make up a pretty significant portion of the Christian community.

I would have to second that. Spend time in any small town in this country, and you will see it. I have spent time in lots of these small towns, and have experienced it myself. living in or near a large metropolitan area shelters a person from this, but the majority of the country still lives in these little towns where a lot of the social activity is centered around the church, and a LOT of these churches fit neatly into the category of raving fundamentalist extremists. In some places, a person could be in danger if it gets around town that they are a Witch, or a Satanist.

 

[Jose Fly]

One of the common sources of information I see fundamentalist Christians cite is the American Center for Law and Justice. They have a TV program and a nationally syndicated radio program that airs in my area every day at 12:30. Their "About Us" page makes it clear that they are a very conservative/fundamentalist Christian organization. One of their recent main issues is their view that Islam, and specifically Sharia Law is soon to be foisted upon America. They recently produced and released a film specifically about this. Here is the trailer:

Radical Islam in the US?

Paranoia? Is Sharia Law really that imminent?

 

[Danmac]

A few? Actually, in America fundamentalist Christians make up a pretty significant portion of the Christian community.

And many are ill informed

 

[Jacksnyte]

And many are ill informed

Exactly! Willfull ignorance is rampant among these folks!

 

[outhouse]

its sad really to see these closed minds

this is exactly parrallel to primitive tribes in jungles

the farther away from society a tribe is the more whacked out their beliefs are.

the more advanced and educated a society is the less need for a god type myth



rural religious towns are run by mob rule, this is known and and a primitive behaviour

 

[Jose Fly]

And many are ill informed

Which is partially my point.

 

[Jose Fly]

A fundamentalist Christian legislator in Georgia submitted an anti-abortion bill that is being described as "crazy".

The Craziest Anti-Choice Bill Yet

With the election of so many plainly crazy people to state legislatures in November, we should not be surprised to find those people submitting crazy legislation. But this one may take the cake. Rep. Bobby Franklin of Georgia has submitted a bill requiring the state to investigate every miscarriage that happens in that state to make sure it's not a clandestine abortion....

...But there's lots of other crazy in the bill. The first part of the bill is a series of statements to justify "nullifying" and thus ignoring Roe v Wade. But it gets the constitution quite wrong.

 

[Jose Fly]

Tennessee bill would jail Shariah followers

A proposed Tennessee law would make following the Islamic code known as Shariah law a felony, punishable by 15 years in jail.

State Sen. Bill Ketron, R-Murfreesboro, and state Rep. Judd Matheny, R-Tullahoma, introduced the same bill in the Senate and House last week. It calls Shariah law a danger to homeland security and gives the attorney general authority to investigate complaints and decide who's practicing it.

It exempts peaceful practice of Islam but labels any adherence to Shariah law — which includes religious practices such as feet washing and prayers — as treasonous. It claims Shariah adherents want to replace the Constitution with their religious law....

...The Tennessee bill goes further by proposing criminal penalties for following Shariah. Matheny said the bill was model legislation, given to him by the Tennessee Eagle Forum, a conservative advocacy group.

Bobbie Patray, state president of the Eagle Forum, confirmed that the law had been drafted by David Yerushalmi, a Chandler, Ariz.-based attorney. Yerushalmi runs the Society of Americans for National Existence, a nonprofit that says following Shariah is treasonous.

If you go to the website for the Tennessee Eagle Forum and look up info on the Society of Americans for National Existence their fundamentalist Christian roots are very clear.

 

[Kathryn]

Kathryn,

So you're honestly telling me that a multi-million dollar young earth creationism museum and theme park that gets millions of visitors per year, gets national and international media coverage isn't Exhibit A in fundamentalist Christians seizing the stage and making American Christianity look ridiculous?

If so, then....well, I guess I'll just allow that to speak for itself.

Jose, don't put words in my mouth. This is not what I said - this is not what "I'm telling you."

What I have been trying to tell you, in very plain English, I might add, is that though I may think these museums/theme parks are stupid and silly, they are privately owned and operated, and it is the right of both the investors and the visitors to have these open and operating, if the free market will support them. If not, they'll close down and you won't have to worry about them anymore.

This is called "freedom of speech" and "freedom of religion." So be it.

As I've said ad nauseum, I disagree with tax dollars supporting them, if this is actually occurring, and if this happens in my state, I'll be extremely outspoken about it. As it is, this is not happening in my state, so therefore I cannot vote against it, or against candidates who support such subsidies. So - I can at most be vocal about it - which I am.

Oh, and I won't go visit them.

There you have it. THAT'S what "I'm telling you." I'd appreciate it if you stuck to what I actually say rather than fabricating what you hope I will say so that you can keep harping on something.

 

[Jose Fly]

Jose, don't put words in my mouth. This is not what I said - this is not what "I'm telling you."

What I have been trying to tell you, in very plain English, I might add, is that though I may think these museums/theme parks are stupid and silly, they are privately owned and operated, and it is the right of both the investors and the visitors to have these open and operating, if the free market will support them. If not, they'll close down and you won't have to worry about them anymore.

This is called "freedom of speech" and "freedom of religion." So be it.

As I've said ad nauseum, I disagree with tax dollars supporting them, if this is actually occurring, and if this happens in my state, I'll be extremely outspoken about it. As it is, this is not happening in my state, so therefore I cannot vote against it, or against candidates who support such subsidies. So - I can at most be vocal about it - which I am.

Oh, and I won't go visit them.

There you have it. THAT'S what "I'm telling you." I'd appreciate it if you stuck to what I actually say rather than fabricating what you hope I will say so that you can keep harping on something.

So you do recognize that they are prime examples of fundamentalist Christians promoting idiocy in the name of Christianity on an international scale. But, as long as it's not in your state..."so be it".

Thank you Kathryn.

 

[Kathryn]

LOL "on an international scale." Lindsey Lohan and Lady Gaga make fools of themselves "on an international scale." In this age of media overexposure, it doesn't take much for someone or some group to make a statement internationally.

 

[Jose Fly]

Conservative Christian legislators in Montana seek to strip protections from gays. During debate on the bill, the fundamentalist Christian basis became very clear:

Leading the support for Hansen's bill were two Bitterroot Valley conservatives who were outspoken opponents of the Missoula ordinance last year.

Harris Himes, representing the Montana Eagle Forum, called the Missoula ordinance "unconstitutional on its face."

"There are those of us who would not to rent to gay and lesbian people for religious reasons," said Himes, a Hamilton pastor.

Pressed later by Rep. Ellie Hill, D-Missoula, what those religious reasons are, Himes said: "It is God himself who says that homosexuality is an abomination, and he has various punishments for that, too." Hill asked what those punishments are, and Himes quoted Leviticus saying that homosexuals "surely shall be put to death."

Dallas Erickson of Montana Citizens for Decency through Law, said, "This law in Missoula means that a person with a penis can now go into the showers where the people with vaginas have gone."

Erickson said he knows Ravalli County residents who won't take their children into Missoula businesses "because they don't know if they're going to confronted in the restroom with a different gender."

 

[Jose Fly]

LOL "on an international scale." Lindsey Lohan and Lady Gaga make fools of themselves "on an international scale." In this age of media overexposure, it doesn't take much for someone or some group to make a statement internationally.

Yup, and the crazy fundies are not only making fools of themselves, but making Christianity look foolish as well...on an international scale. But hey, don't bother yourself over it.

 

[Kathryn]

Yup, and the crazy fundies are not only making fools of themselves, but making Christianity look foolish as well...on an international scale. But hey, don't bother yourself over it.

You never have really answered my question.

Just what exactly do you suggest that I do about it?

 

[Jose Fly]

You never have really answered my question.

Just what exactly do you suggest that I do about it?

Again, I refer you to the Islamic equivalent organizations such as CAIR, who include countering fundamentalist Muslims and ensuring they aren't the public face of Islam as part of their core mission. I'm also thinking of science advocacy groups like the NCSE and the network of state organizations who have as their core mission the defense of science and science education against attacks from fundamentalist Christians.

You've provided lists of mainstream and liberal Christian organizations, but none of them have countering fundamentalist Christianity and/or ensuring the fundies aren't the public face of Christianity as even part of their core mission.

As I'm showing, and will continue to show by posting examples from around the country, the sort of hate and crazy I experienced in that forum is not at all atypical among fundamentalist Christians, and rather than being some sort of lunatic fringe, they are becoming more powerful and influential. I work closely with groups around the country to counter their activities when it affects issues important to me, regardless if it's in my state or not. I have friends who do the same on other issues.

 

[Jose Fly]

The California Family Council, a fundamentalist Christian organization who is affiliated with the equally fundamentalist Focus on the Family, is actually fighting against anti-bullying policies in California.....because they include bullying against gays:

Rebecca Burgoyne, research analyst with California Family Council, tells OneNewsNow that children across The Golden State are being indoctrinated with a pro-homosexual message. She maintains that the Obama administration and homosexual lobbyists are advancing an agenda that silences religious speech and the rights of parents.

"For many years, maybe a decade or so, gay activists in California have been making a big to-do about 'bullying' because of sexual orientation -- or even perceived sexual orientation," she explains. And the term "bullying," she argues, has become the elementary-level word for "hate speech."