A thought I had about polytheism and Paganism.

[Saint Frankenstein]

I argue myself into and out of stances and beliefs a lot. One of the more interesting thoughts I had lately was why didn't the Pagan gods defend their religions from decline and persecution? Classical Greco-Roman polytheism declined and then was banned. Celtic polytheism basically just disappeared at around the same time. Germanic religion was persecuted at times but the people also just converted along with their leaders. Similar things happened around the world with indigenous religions.

So what happened, on a spiritual level? Were the Pagan gods just weak as compared to the Abrahamic deity? How could they allow their religions just to be destroyed and broken beyond fixing (it's not possible to truly reconstruct those religions, sorry)? Why didn't they give their followers the strength to persevere under severe persecution as the Abrahamic deity seems to do with His followers (look at how many times Jews faced annihilation and Christians were/are persecuted)? If you are a true polytheist, you must admit that the God of Abraham is a very powerful deity to be able to triumph over the old gods and capture the worship of billions.

I'm not trying to offend or be rude. These are honest questions I have. Why do you think the old gods might've allowed their worship to be veritably wiped out? Is it part of a cycle? Free will? Fate?

Note: I'm primarily interested in spiritual reasons why this happened, especially from Neopagans who practice religions like Hellenismos and Asatru. If you have some other input from a more practical perspective, that's fine but not the main point of the thread.

@DavidMcCann, @The Ragin Pagan, @DanishCrow, @Reaper, @Hildeburh might you have some input from your traditions?

 

[SalixIncendium]

The strength of a deity lies in the numbers that worship Him/Her.

 

[Sleeppy]

It's just a lot easier to keep track of, and maintain fewer, or one.

 

[Quintessence]

These questions have never crossed my mind, honestly. I think it's because I come from a very different set of assumptions. In general, the questions you ask have a somewhat anthropocentric vibe to them. They seem to stem from the assumption that gods serve humans, not the other way around. In my experience, the gods really don't care about humans. The religions humans create to worship the gods are human religions, not the religion of the gods. The gods couldn't care one way or another if religions humans make to worship them exist or not. The existence and power of the gods isn't contingent on that.

 

[Quintessence]

It's just a lot easier to keep track of, and maintain fewer, or one.

It's also painfully limiting and dreadfully boring, which is a major reason why I could never be a monotheist.

Worship only one thing, forever? No thanks. That's like asking me to eat only one kind of meal for the rest of my life. I mean, I love rice crackers, but... bleh.

 

[SalixIncendium]

Worship only one thing, forever? No thanks. That's like asking me to eat only one kind of meal for the rest of my life. Blech.

Unless, of course, that meal is pizza.

 

[Woberts]

Unless, of course, that meal is pizza.

Or the holiest meal of all:
Ramen.

 

[Saint Frankenstein]

These questions have never crossed my mind, honestly. I think it's because I come from a very different set of assumptions. In general, the questions you ask have a somewhat anthropocentric vibe to them. They seem to stem from the assumption that gods serve humans, not the other way around. In my experience, the gods really don't care about humans. The religions humans create to worship the gods are human religions, not the religion of the gods. The gods couldn't care one way or another if religions humans make to worship them exist or not. The existence and power of the gods isn't contingent on that.

I can understand your viewpoint but it's not the viewpoint of Classical Paganism, where the gods were keenly interested in the development of humanity and their worship was upholding balance, virtue and the good of society. To the Aztecs, worship of the gods kept the very cosmos functioning.

 

[Quintessence]

The strength of a deity lies in the numbers that worship Him/Her.

Yeah, this makes no sense to me. I'm pretty confident that the strength of the gods is entirely unrelated to human attention paid to them. If this were not the case, the earth would have spun out of its orbit already because the sun would cease to be a thing in our solar system....

 

[SalixIncendium]

Or the holiest meal of all:
Ramen.

Someone is well studied in the Loose Canon.

 

[SalixIncendium]

Yeah, this makes no sense to me. I'm pretty confident that the strength of the gods is entirely unrelated to human attention paid to them. If this were not the case, the earth would have spun out of its orbit already because the sun would cease to be a thing in our solar system....

I'm not talking about strength of an individual deity as it relates to His/Her associations or divine responsibility. I'm talking of strength of a deity as it relates to the OP with regard to protection from persecution of His/Her adherents and the decline in worship.

 

[Quintessence]

I can understand your viewpoint but it's not the viewpoint of Classical Paganism, where the gods were keenly interested in the development of humanity and their worship was upholding balance, virtue and the good of society. To the Aztecs, worship of the gods kept the very cosmos functioning.

From what I understand, there was not "the viewpoint" of Classical Paganism any more than there's "the viewpoint" amongst contemporary Pagans. How peoples interpret mythos has varied since mythos has been a thing. There's all sorts of nuances and subtexts, too. I can't speak much to that - I haven't done anywhere near the extensive reading that would be necessary for that. It's challenging to find sources on Paganisms of antiquity that are... well... lacking in certain biases, as it were. It sort of turned me off from trying to be any sort of reconstructionist.

 

[Quintessence]

I'm not talking about strength of an individual deity as it relates to His/Her associations or divine responsibility. I'm talking of strength of a deity as it relates to the OP with regard to protection from persecution of His/Her adherents and the decline in worship.

So in a sense, you're talking more about human social norms? Like, the ability of an idea to hold power over people depends on how culturally dominant it is? Or am I off-base here?

 

[Sunstone]

I think part of the explanation might lie in the fact that, generally speaking, the old religions were not proselytizing religions. Thus, they did not replace their losses to Christianity and the other proselytizing religions of the time, such as Mithraism and the Cult of Isis. Mithraism, at least, gave Christianity a run for the money and was only decisively defeated when Constantine came out in favor of Christianity.

 

[Saint Frankenstein]

From what I understand, there was not "the viewpoint" of Classical Paganism any more than there's "the viewpoint" amongst contemporary Pagans. How peoples interpret mythos has varied since mythos has been a thing. There's all sorts of nuances and subtexts, too. I can't speak much to that - I haven't done anywhere near the extensive reading that would be necessary for that. It's challenging to find sources on Paganisms of antiquity that are... well... lacking in certain biases, as it were. It sort of turned me off from trying to be any sort of reconstructionist.

I am referring to Greco-Roman and ancient Near Eastern polytheisms. What I said is true for them. Religious worship was contractual in basis. If you wanted the blessings of a deity, you worship them with the correct rites. That's why people blamed the gods when bad things happened and especially when calamities befell society.

 

[SalixIncendium]

So in a sense, you're talking more about human social norms? Like, the ability of an idea to hold power over people depends on how culturally dominant it is? Or am I off-base here?

You're on track. History shows that a deity can't protect His/Her adherents from cultural dominance or religious intolerance. In that respect, people (or more accurately, number of people) give deities such power.

 

[David1967]

Unless, of course, that meal is pizza.

depends on what kind of pizza. No anchovies.

 

[David1967]

I think part of the explanation might lie in the fact that, generally speaking, the old religions were not proselytizing religions. Thus, they did not replace their losses to Christianity and the other proselytizing religions of the time, such as Mithraism and the Cult of Isis. Mithraism, at least, gave Christianity a run for the money and was only decisively defeated when Constantine came out in favor of Christianity.

I don't think it went away completely. There are a lot of Pagan influences in the Christian church. From the Holidays ,to names of the week to Mother Mary replacing the May Queen etc. etc. Those religions didn't go away, just hiding in plain sight.

 

[SalixIncendium]

depends on what kind of pizza. No anchovies.

Unfortunately, my deity couldn't protect me from the need to follow a pollo-pescatarian diet for health reasons, so I'm limited in my topping options, anchovies being one on the 'okay' list.

 

[Saint Frankenstein]

I don't think it went away completely. There are a lot of Pagan influences in the Christian church. From the Holidays ,to names of the week to Mother Mary replacing the May Queen etc. etc. Those religions didn't go away, just hiding in plain sight.

Um, no.